- 4 weeks ago
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00:14All right, well, we're here.
00:18I'm Lisa, and this is my husband Anthony,
00:20and we live together in Monmouth in Wales.
00:23You ain't seen nothing yet.
00:25I think it's a strength that we're married
00:28and in business together and still married.
00:30Come on, we're getting all five to do.
00:31All five.
00:32You can just say it.
00:33You're the fun one, I'm the boring one.
00:36I'm the face of the business, you're the voice for radio.
00:38You're the creative stuff, and yes, yes, yes,
00:40and I'm the one who checks and goes,
00:41I'm not sure, no, no, no, be careful.
00:45It's nice, because we've got some fairly complementary strengths.
00:48I can say you can't get practice at times,
00:50but by the time we get home, then back to husband and wife
00:53with our three children, then things are good.
00:57Lisa and Anthony may have successfully found a way
01:00to blend business with pleasure.
01:02There you go.
01:03Feel my help.
01:03You've done it in my chest.
01:05But will they have what it takes to build an amicable partnership
01:09with any of the dragons?
01:14Hello, dragons.
01:15I'm Lisa, founder of Snope,
01:18a revolutionary, patented solid soap and solid shampoo dispenser.
01:23I'm Anthony, Lisa's husband and business partner,
01:26and we're here today seeking a £50,000 investment
01:29for a 5% stake in Snope.
01:31The idea for Snope came to me when I realised solid bars of soap
01:35are proving impractical for our busy family.
01:38Nobody wanted to share the bar.
01:40The bar always ended up a slimy lump with a hair on it on the sink.
01:43But before I reverted to liquids, I wanted to understand what that meant.
01:47And the issue with liquids is gigantic.
01:50With UK homes alone discarding 1.8 billion hand wash, body wash
01:55and shampoo bottles every single year.
01:57And on top of that, liquids have 10 times the carbon footprint of solids.
02:01That's a big problem.
02:02So, Lisa wanted to see what was out there.
02:05Was there a hybrid?
02:06Something with the convenience of the dispenser,
02:08but all of the environmental benefits of solid bars?
02:11When I couldn't find anything, I invented the solution
02:14and Snope was born.
02:16It takes two solid bars of soap or shampoo
02:19and dispenses a fine snow-like powder.
02:26Snope is eco-friendly, cost-saving.
02:30Two bars of soap give 2,000 hand washes
02:32and that's equivalent to 20 bottles of 250ml hand wash, body wash or shampoo.
02:42We launched 18 months ago
02:44and we're in over 200 happy Snopey households
02:47and in over 30 businesses, including schools, cinemas
02:51and we've just signed a hotel
02:53which is part of a large global hotel chain
02:57which is game-changing for Snope.
02:59Before I welcome questions, would you like to try some?
03:03Yes.
03:03I'm going to bring it to you.
03:06An innovative dispenser that delivers grateable soap into your hands
03:10is the offering from Anthony and Lisa Hicks.
03:13And you lather it out.
03:14Squirrels dice.
03:16The couple are seeking £50,000
03:18in return for a 5% share in their business.
03:22That is literally enough for a hand wash.
03:26Tuukka Suleiman is first up with the questions.
03:34Lisa and Anthony, so you're saying that you're going to revolutionise the hand soap market.
03:42Correct.
03:43And the powder that you've got in that container is your product.
03:48The container is the product.
03:50But not all those soaps you've got up there.
03:52Yes, all of that is our product.
03:54We've got accessories.
03:55We've got soap bars and shampoo bars as well.
03:57It's not a powder.
03:58It's a bar and she grates it.
03:59Oh, I see.
04:00It's a bar and you'll squeeze it.
04:01Yes.
04:02Correct.
04:02Grating it.
04:03Two bars inside.
04:04How many bars have you got in there?
04:06Two.
04:06Gotcha.
04:07Right.
04:09Lisa, Anthony, can I ask about just the liquid?
04:11What's the big upside of grating the soap myself versus if I have a hotel chain just doing
04:17what they currently do where I dispense a liquid soap?
04:19So obviously liquid soaps are all transported in and come in single use plastic.
04:24Even if you're refilling them, they come in five litre jacks.
04:27One of the great benefits that our commercial premises love is for the operatives, it's so
04:32much easier because you're not lumping around a five litre jack of liquid that you've got
04:36to pour into here.
04:37You've got a 110 gram bar that's equivalent to two and a half litres in itself.
04:42So either on a cart or whatever, it's much more convenient to transport it around.
04:47What's the cost difference if I'm a hotel owner?
04:50If I switch from the liquid soap to this?
04:53We're saving about 50% on the hotel soap costs.
04:57A new one.
04:59Brilliant.
05:00So can you explain to me what stage you're at with the patent?
05:03Yeah.
05:04So we've got patents fully granted here in the UK.
05:08Oh, wow.
05:09And we've got EU and US pending.
05:11And that's for the dispenser itself.
05:14And then we've got patents on the soap.
05:15Yeah.
05:16How do you get a patent on the soap?
05:18Because we've got the shape, the hole, because it needs a hole because it rotates
05:23around the central point and the etching marks on the top because they have a functional benefit to them.
05:29You've got to make a big redesign to do anything around it.
05:33I've got to say, our patent attorney, we focused on that because we knew how important it was to protect.
05:38And he's outstanding.
05:42Lisa.
05:44It's really impressive.
05:45I'm fighting you for this one, Peter.
05:48I'm desperate to get in there.
05:51Do you want to get in? I'm happy for you to go.
05:53Are you happy for me to go?
05:54Because I probably learn a little bit whilst you're talking.
05:57It reminds me of getting on the back of Deborah's coattails with an investment we have together.
06:01I might be the same right now.
06:02Right.
06:03OK.
06:04So, Peter and I, you probably know, are invested in a business called Fussy,
06:08whose plan is to take, you know, single-use plastic out of the bathroom.
06:13Exactly.
06:13You know, part of the same movement, which is absolutely brilliant.
06:17So I do have some questions.
06:19Yeah.
06:20It is, at the moment, it's quite a chunky looking thing.
06:25How much flexibility have you got in terms of design?
06:29So if you think at the moment, your big market here is going to be hotels.
06:33Yeah.
06:33And at the moment, they do some fantastic deals with brands.
06:37Yeah.
06:37And your market is going to be multifold.
06:39It's going to be you supplying the product.
06:42But if you do have this wonderful device, then licensing that to other brands that can put their brand across,
06:51you know, is going to be as important.
06:52But they're going to want flexibility of brand.
06:54Yeah.
06:55So they're going to want to say, actually, I'd like it that colour, and I'd like it a bit longer.
06:58Yeah.
06:58And I'd like one soap to go, you know.
07:00Yes, absolutely.
07:01So that's why I asked the question.
07:02Yeah.
07:02So from a patent point of view, there's no problem with that.
07:05We can certainly change that.
07:07It's just the tooling.
07:07We're totally open to changing the design and the look of it.
07:13I think this could be what Tetra Pak were and was when they launched their product for milk and for
07:22fruit juice.
07:24Snoop could be that for soap dispensers.
07:26Yeah.
07:28And because I'm really, really quick, and I don't need to ask many questions like some of the other dragons,
07:35I'm just going to get straight to the point and make you an offer.
07:38Fantastic.
07:38Because I literally, when I saw it, when you demonstrated it, I just got it.
07:45So you've asked for £50,000 for 5%.
07:48I'm going to offer you all of the money for 10% of the business.
07:55Thank you, Peter.
07:58Lisa, Anthony.
07:59It's really, really interesting.
08:01I think there's a huge education piece to be done, especially as it relates to the direct-to-consumer business.
08:05If you do a phenomenal job presenting this as the antithesis to a current way of working that is unenvironmentally
08:16friendly, that is inefficient,
08:18then you could start to really eat up that market if you nail the storytelling online, which happens to be
08:27my bread and butter.
08:28It is what I do.
08:30So I'd love to throw my weight behind making sure that this reaches its potential.
08:39So I'm going to make you an offer, which is I'm going to offer you all of the money for
08:4210% of the business as well.
08:46Thanks.
08:49I love it.
08:51Oh, thank you.
08:51I think it's brilliant.
08:55I don't know if you know, but I've actually just been part of a campaign saying stop using liquid soap.
08:59You know, it's because this is just so much better solution.
09:04So I, of course, I'm going to make you an offer.
09:07I'm not going to make it easy for you.
09:09I'm going to duplicate theirs.
09:10So I'm going to offer you all of the money for 10% of the business.
09:18Lisa, Anthony.
09:20Hi, Sarah.
09:21I absolutely love the business.
09:23I love the product.
09:25I would love to work with you both and I'd love to be involved in this.
09:28So I'm also going to offer you all of the money for 10% of the business.
09:33Yeah.
09:34Have you done well?
09:36Great.
09:41Look, you've created something which is revolutionary.
09:46And I would definitely love to come on this journey with you.
09:50So I'm going to make you an offer.
09:53I'm going to offer you all of the money.
09:59Be kind, Chuka.
10:00No.
10:01Well, you've got 10%.
10:02And I'm not going to go over 10%.
10:04And I'm wondering, do I undercut them or not?
10:07I think you should.
10:09It's the only choice you've got to get it.
10:11I'll tell you what I'll do.
10:13I'll offer you all the money for 8%.
10:18Thank you, Dragons.
10:19We really appreciate the offers.
10:20It was really exciting.
10:21And we're delighted with the offers.
10:23Absolutely delighted.
10:24The thing for us is we would love to have multiple Dragons.
10:29But we felt that we valued the business very fairly, coming in at 5% for £50,000.
10:34So we just want to understand whether there's any wiggle room in that or what the wiggle room is.
10:41I would be prepared to reduce my offer to 7.5%.
10:52And I would also be prepared to share with one other Dragon.
10:58I don't think you need...
11:00I actually don't think you need multiple Dragons.
11:02And if you were trying to split it in lots of ways, I think it's not really something that I
11:06would want to get involved with.
11:07I just think you dilute to the point where we all kind of think, well, you know, we'll give them
11:10the attention when they want it.
11:12Yeah.
11:12I appreciate it.
11:12No problem.
11:15I'm tempted.
11:17It's the link with what Deborah and I have got with Fussy.
11:21It's obvious here.
11:23So I'm kind of tempted to say that if I match Deborah's 7.5 and join forces, you've got Deborah
11:29and I.
11:32I think you've got the dream ticket.
11:34Was that your thinking, Deborah?
11:36Well, it does.
11:37It makes perfect sense.
11:40Okay.
11:40So, Anthony and Lita, I will match Deborah's offer.
11:44So going down to that 7.5 on a split basis with her.
11:49Okay.
11:52I would be willing to do 50,000 for 7.5% as well.
12:01To be totally transparent, I also think your valuation on the business was fair.
12:07Your patents, I think, are very, very valuable.
12:10So I would be happy to take part of the business at the 5% stake.
12:15Brilliant.
12:17Well, this leaves me.
12:19Yes.
12:20Sorry.
12:20So I will revise my offer.
12:22Yeah.
12:22I will give you the whole 50,000 for 5%.
12:27We're going to chat at the back.
12:28Yep.
12:28We can do the chat with the wall.
12:31The entrepreneur's firm stance pays off as each dragon drops their bid to get on board
12:37with Lisa and Anthony's business.
12:39Oh, so good.
12:41Yes.
12:43Deborah Meaden and Peter Jones have teamed up to present a joint offer of 7.5%.
12:49The short thing comes with us.
12:52If we don't take Peter, he won't let us do that.
12:55Matched by a single offer of the same from Stephen Bartlett.
13:00Stephen, you're one direct-to-consumer. Stephen's direct-to-consumer.
13:04While Sarah Davies and Touka Suleiman have both undercut their rival dragons with a bid of 5%.
13:12Yeah, but don't talk to each other.
13:13Okay.
13:13He'll pick and go.
13:15Yeah.
13:15Okay.
13:18Yeah, getting fixed.
13:22Right.
13:23Right.
13:24Guys, we're massively conflicted.
13:28So we're really sad to lose some of you because, as I said, we really wanted to be a couple.
13:34So...
13:36Peter and Deborah are going to accept your offer, please.
13:38Oh, sorry, Sarah.
13:40Sorry, Sarah.
13:41Sorry, too good.
13:42Sorry, Stephen.
13:43It happens.
13:44Don't worry about it.
13:45They had all five dragons in the palm of their hands.
13:49I love it.
13:50Really good.
13:50Looking forward to it.
13:52Lisa and Anthony leave the den with two investors with the experience and expertise to fast-track
13:58their business to the bathroom big time.
14:03Oh, absolutely.
14:05Buzzing.
14:05Overjoyed.
14:06Just...
14:07Yeah, it's amazing.
14:08I want to dance.
14:09That was better than I possibly could have imagined it going.
14:13That's an incredible one.
14:14I'm so pleased.
14:18We must try not to gloat too much over that, Peter.
14:21No, no, no.
14:22Never attractive.
14:25Oh, having Peter and Deborah feels amazing.
14:28I mean, Peter the tech titan, Deborah the sustainability champion.
14:33Absolutely overjoyed.
14:35We couldn't be happier.
14:47Yeah.
14:49Hi, I'm Zach.
14:51I'm from London.
14:52And I'm James.
14:53I'm Zach's co-founder.
14:54I'm also from London.
14:56A friend of a friend who introduced us initially, and we immediately sort of hit it off.
15:00Yeah, couldn't do this alone.
15:02This bit.
15:03Could not do this alone.
15:05I've been a big follower of Stephen Bartlett since his early days.
15:09Great.
15:10Ready to go.
15:12Deborah has an amazing source of knowledge from hospitality and leisure.
15:16The access and awareness that the right investor can bring us is the key to unlocking success.
15:22You ready to face the dragons?
15:23Born ready.
15:24Let's go.
15:24Let's do it.
15:35Hello, dragons.
15:37I'm Zach.
15:38And I'm James.
15:39We're the co-founders of Kit Medical.
15:41We're here today to ask for £75,000 in exchange for 5% of our business.
15:47But first, I want to tell you a story about how one bite changed my life.
15:52When I was five years old, after having a piece of toast contaminated with peanut butter,
15:56I had my first ever allergic reaction.
15:58So I left the hospital with two adrenaline pens in my hand and the knowledge that certain foods could kill
16:04me.
16:05Fast forward 20 years and I've learned to live with my condition.
16:08Although with the stories of allergy deaths constantly popping up on the news,
16:11and the struggles of finding and keeping adrenaline pens, it hasn't been easy.
16:16That's why, during my final year at university,
16:18I was focused on building a product that could tackle the problems allergy sufferers face every day.
16:24If someone in this room would experience a severe allergic reaction with no access to medication,
16:29you'd have a matter of minutes to save their life.
16:32That's why, together, we set out to create something just like a defibrillator, but for allergies.
16:38In 2023, we launched our now multi-award winning anaphylaxis kit service.
16:43We provide adrenaline pens on subscription with our wall-mounted kits alongside online accredited training and management software.
16:52And in the last year and a half, our kits have actually been used to treat life-threatening allergic reactions,
16:57including that of a 14-year-old dance student named Ava and a maths teacher named Billy Joe.
17:02Both of whose stories receive national press coverage.
17:05We've already partnered with over 350 schools.
17:08We're now rolling out our kits into workplaces, hospitality, retail and more.
17:15Thank you so much for listening. Now, I'd love to demonstrate how our kit works.
17:21An emergency pack containing adrenaline pens for treating severe allergic reactions is the brainchild of Zach Marks and James Cohen.
17:31So, the kits are wall-mounted in schools and workplaces like so.
17:35You'll always have an emergency brake glass key nearby.
17:38And to access it, smash it and then take the key.
17:43The pair are hoping for an investment of £75,000.
17:48Push it into the middle, turn to the left, and that takes it out, it's wall-mounted.
17:53In return, for a 5% share of their company.
17:57Open the latch and inside are the adrenaline pens,
18:00alongside emergency treatment guidance here,
18:02so that even if you aren't trained, you'll know what to do.
18:06First to find out more is Sarah Davies.
18:12Awesome. James, Zach.
18:14So, I'm trying to understand the business model proposition.
18:21What is the cost to somebody of installing one of these?
18:25And, you know, how does that work for you guys?
18:27So, we charge schools £650 per kit per year.
18:31So, it's not a one-off installation?
18:33Not a one-off installation because the medication inside expires all too frequently.
18:37So, what we do is replenish them when they're coming out for expiry,
18:40and we maintain our supply of training, our anaphylaxis portal,
18:46and our wall-mounted kits with in-date pens throughout that period of time.
18:51If people know that they've got this sort of, like you found out, unfortunately,
18:57but luckily, I suppose something saved your life,
19:02I would naturally assume that you would have an adrenaline pen,
19:05so everybody would have that with them anyway.
19:08Is that not the case?
19:09There's a few issues with that.
19:11Firstly, adrenaline pens are pretty bulky and inconvenient to carry around with you.
19:14So, a lot of people with allergies, because it can be a rare occurrence,
19:17you just end up not taking it with you.
19:18And in that time you do need it, you don't have them.
19:21The other thing is that they expire.
19:23So, you might be carrying a set, not checking the expiry date,
19:25they're actually out of date.
19:26Now, in some cases, like Billy Joe, the teacher who had a severe reaction at school
19:30and needed our kit, she used her own adrenaline pen that she had,
19:33but she only had one, and she needed to then use a further two more pens from our kit
19:37to tide her over, as it was a rural school,
19:40and the ambulance took about 25 to 30 minutes to get to her,
19:43where she then needed a whole bunch of other medical equipment to essentially save her life.
19:48Yeah, that's absolutely incredible, isn't it?
19:52James, Zach, in revenue terms, where are you currently?
19:57And give me an idea of the forecasts.
20:00So, in 2023, we're reporting £171,000 of revenue.
20:05This year, we're expected to hit £463,000 of revenue.
20:102025, our revenue will be £840,000, and in 2026, £1.25 million.
20:18What are you looking for, boys? Why did you come to Dragon's Tink?
20:22I think what we have found is that the best way to get this kit through the door
20:27is by an introduction.
20:30With connections, with awareness, with profiles, this could, you know, be everywhere.
20:36Yeah. Exposure, access, and distribution.
20:40Hi, guys. Hi.
20:43So, can you describe the barriers to entry, or why you are going to own this space?
20:50So, we have the trademarks, domain names, the design rights all registered under our company.
20:56There is no sort of patent, but we do have the exclusive agreement with a pharmaceutical company
21:01that makes the adrenaline pens that's actually tied over for multiple years,
21:04and they won't be partnering with anyone else providing these pens.
21:06We then also have our licence, which is through the MHRA, the WDA licence,
21:12which enables us to take payment for medication.
21:15OK. Does anybody else supply adrenaline pens?
21:18Well, yes, but there hasn't been anyone in the market that's looking to do this sort of thing.
21:24So, you're smart guys. Come over smart already.
21:28Who are you talking to at the moment?
21:31Who's your best next proposition or opportunity?
21:36Yeah, I mean, for the last year and a half, we've only been selling to schools,
21:39but now we've done a lot of legal legislation and compliance work
21:43because adrenaline is a prescription-only medication,
21:46so we can now sell through occupational health schemes to workplaces,
21:50which is everything from hospitality to leisure, gyms, theme parks.
21:54So, that's a fundamental change to your business. Huge.
21:58That's opened a big set of double doors.
22:00So, the forecasts that we actually provided were based primarily on the schools business
22:04because this is something we've managed to navigate a lot sooner than originally anticipated.
22:09So, the market has now, to an extent, blown wide open.
22:14Guys, listen, I could pretend, but I love it.
22:20I'm also not going to pretend.
22:24Can't help it.
22:26I love it.
22:27You characterise, for me, exactly what a really good business is.
22:32You know where your market is, and you two are just smart as anything,
22:37which really makes it really hard for me to negotiate on you.
22:42Should we leave?
22:43Can I give you a moment?
22:46Yeah.
22:47So, I am going to make you an offer.
22:50So, I'm going to offer you all of the money, and I'm going to offer it at what you asked,
22:54at 5%.
22:56That's amazing.
22:57Because I think you're excellent.
22:59And do you know the trouble with going first?
23:01Is it gives all of them the opportunity to sell themselves much better than I did,
23:08and I sit here thinking, oh, I should have said that.
23:10Just go back to the back of the wall, and talk to the wall, and come back and say,
23:14you've offered us at the level that we're delighted.
23:16We know you're incredibly well connected.
23:18Let's do a deal.
23:19Zach.
23:19Can we just do that?
23:20No, Zach, let me see.
23:21How much are you paying for your rent, Will?
23:27I've seen all this before.
23:28I'll tell you what.
23:29You're going to get, in a minute, you're going to get free office accommodation.
23:33You're going to get a spot on a podcast.
23:37Guys, my question to you.
23:39So, here's the thing.
23:41I think it's clearly brilliant.
23:43If I was to offer a similar level to Deborah's offer just now,
23:46I'd end up with 5%.
23:49Where's my exit here?
23:52We reckon there will be an exit opportunity in three or five years
23:55from potentially selling the companies to the pharmaceutical industry.
23:59And what do you think we're selling that company for?
24:01Anywhere upwards of 50 million, so it's possible.
24:0450 million.
24:05Have you got any examples of this?
24:09I mean, if you look at the defibrillator kits that are out there,
24:12I don't know of one company that has exited for tens of millions.
24:17Do you?
24:19No, because they're running so much profit that they're actually not exiting.
24:23Potentially.
24:23I don't think that's the case.
24:26So, I think the offer at 5% isn't rich enough for me.
24:33Because an exit at the multiples that you're thinking of,
24:36I think is going to be incredibly challenging.
24:39So, for that reason, I'm going to say that I'm out.
24:42Thank you. I appreciate it. Anyway, Peter.
24:45Okay, I'm going to say where I am.
24:47First thing I have to say is, well done.
24:50And congratulations.
24:51Because it's so incredible that you went through something yourself,
24:54and you had that entrepreneurial itch to actually do something about it,
24:59which has likely saved people's lives already.
25:01That's a really amazing thing.
25:05So, I would also like to make you an offer.
25:10I'll offer you all of the money.
25:13But I would like 7.5% of the business.
25:18Okay.
25:19Thank you, Steven.
25:22Hi, guys.
25:24I'm torn because of the valuation.
25:28And I'm torn.
25:30I could definitely, if you wanted me, I've got contacts.
25:33You name it, it's quite easy.
25:36Introducing you to whoever.
25:40I did say I could offer you some offer space.
25:42And I'm in the offer space every day.
25:46I'm there.
25:47You'll be there.
25:48You can ask me whatever you want.
25:51So, I'm going to make you an offer.
25:55So, I'm going to offer you all of the money.
25:58But I watched a little bit more, because I believe that I'm offering more.
26:03I'll give you all of the money for 8%.
26:09Okay.
26:11So, where are you?
26:12I'll tell you where I am.
26:14I think it's very, very important for you guys to make sure you get the right dragon
26:22to help you on this next stage of the journey.
26:26I'm going to be really honest in saying I don't think I am the right one for you.
26:30So, I'm going to make it a little bit easier for you and say that I'm out.
26:35Good luck.
26:37Do you want to go to the back?
26:38Yeah, exactly.
26:41Zach and James have three dragons battling for a share of their business.
26:47Tuukka Suleiman wants the biggest stake at 8%.
26:50But to sweeten the deal, he's throwing in free office space.
26:55I want to.
26:58Stephen Bartlett has asked for 7.5%.
27:02What do you think for 7.5k?
27:04Whilst Deborah Meaden has met the duo's original asking price of 5%.
27:09Yeah.
27:11Let's do it.
27:12Go on.
27:20Thank you for the offers.
27:23We were hoping to potentially have a reverse suggestion where you too, Stephen and Deborah, share the investment, 3%
27:34each.
27:40Personally, I would most certainly share with Deborah.
27:44We'd have to move up a little bit on the 3%.
27:46So, I would do it with Deborah at 3.5%.
27:54I'd be very happy to share with you, Stephen.
27:57And if you want to come and work in my office, I have a couple of free floors, so...
28:04Yeah.
28:04Thank you, Tuukka, for a fun.
28:06But I think we'll go with Deborah and Stephen.
28:09Excellent.
28:11A fantastic result for Zach and James.
28:14Unbelievable.
28:15Right, well done, guys.
28:16Awesome.
28:16Thank you very much.
28:17Thank you so much.
28:18Bye.
28:18As they seal a deal with the two dragons they'd set their sights on.
28:28Yeah, we're really happy.
28:30Really happy.
28:30I mean, they were basically fighting over us.
28:32It was amazing to see.
28:34Well negotiated, Deborah.
28:36I got a bit giddy there, didn't I?
28:39Yes, very well negotiated, Deborah.
28:42I think I hid it very well.
28:45I think Stephen was someone I really wanted to get on board.
28:48Deborah with the cosmicality and, yeah, just perfect.
28:52Perfect.
29:04You've got it, you've got it.
29:07It's going to be amazing.
29:08I'm going to get some water.
29:09Hi, I'm Millie Flemm Sinclair.
29:12I'm 25 years old and I'm from Bristol.
29:15Oh, are we moving?
29:17Are we moving?
29:17We're moving.
29:19I'm a really creative and determined business person.
29:23The determination definitely comes from growing up with a rare condition
29:27and I'm just always wanting to prove to people what I'm capable of.
29:33Next up.
29:35Right up my street.
29:36The brand looks nice.
29:39The stakes are high in terms of this is my dream
29:43and by having the investment and a dragon on board
29:46it will allow us to get the story out to a wider audience.
29:50We are looking forward to sharing a new dream.
30:05At the end of this is my dream.
30:10We live in our dream.
30:11I'm going to spend a couple years
30:14and thank you so much on the show.
30:16We're gonna go to the show.
30:17All you have to see is the moment of the show.
30:18You're going to get back to the show.
30:18We're going to get to the show.
30:19Now I'm going to get back.
30:20confidence. I was born with a rare condition that only affects 2000 people worldwide. I've spent most
30:25of my childhood and teens in and out of hospital and as a result was bullied for my height, the
30:30way
30:30I walk and I was tube fed till I was 18. In the last four years I've had two kidney
30:35transplants
30:36and I ended up in ICU for over three months but makeup became my therapy. However I became really
30:42frustrated by the lack of representation and accessibility in the beauty industry so I founded
30:47human beauty. Human beauty is a brand that celebrates accessibility and inclusion and we're on a mission
30:55to create cosmetics accessible for all. Our unique selling point lies within our accessible beauty
31:01range. So for example our makeup therapy palette has an innovative QR code that leads to audio and
31:07visual descriptions. Other accessibility features is like our liquid confidence mascara which has an
31:13omni-directional wand that can be applied in any direction and all of our products are square or
31:18anti-roll and we have sensory friendly formulas. One in four people in the UK have a disability yet we're
31:25the least represented. Today I'm asking for £50,000 in return for 20% share in human beauty. Thank you.
31:35An inclusive brand of cosmetics focused on accessibility for all is the offering from Millie Flemington-Claire.
31:43So do you use the, you use the product? Yeah yeah I love them they're really good and like the
31:48mascara has made it so much easier to use. I can use it from every angle
31:53because I've got limited dexterity. This is game-changing. Millie's looking to secure an investment of £50,000
32:01for a 20% share of her company. Well thank you. Thank you. I'm so nice to meet you. Thank
32:06you.
32:07Pleasure to meet you. First to take a closer look at the beauty business is Peter Jones.
32:16Millie, hello. Hi. Well congratulations on getting here. Thank you.
32:24Um, daunting isn't it? Yeah, I've been watching this since I was eight with my dad and so this is
32:30a dream.
32:31Oh wow. Well you, that's one, you've got a couple of the dream for sure.
32:35My key question here is what specifically makes the product inclusive in your eyes?
32:42So it's a combination of things. So like the anti-roll packaging, uh, the sensory-friendly formulas, but also
32:49when things smell too much or the glitter's gritty or, um, heavy makeup for people, because I talk about neurodiversity
32:58as well.
32:59Um, it, if it's too much, it can be, that can be a barrier as well. And I talk about
33:04accessibility has to come from a 360 point of view.
33:07It has to come from the product design, but also the price point, um, and the way we communicate with
33:13our customers, like our website and our social media.
33:18Millie, um, you're quite the force. Thank you. Um, so when did you, when did you launch this business?
33:26Um, officially it was a, an idea I started in 2020. Yeah. But the last year is when I've been
33:33properly, properly doing it.
33:34Okay. So if you tell me when the figures start from. Yeah. So, um, we've, uh, first figures from November
33:4021 to October 22.
33:43Yeah. Our turnover was, uh, £982. Yeah. £982.
33:49Yeah. Um, and then the year that we've just done was, uh, turnover, £3,792.
33:59Um, what's your, what are your forward facing ambitions for this business?
34:03And because this, this strikes me as being a business on one end, but also a bit of a movement
34:07on the other.
34:08We, we are about beauty products, but we want to set a new standard for accessibility and disability representation.
34:16Um, I think there is a huge need globally for people who don't feel heard and seen already.
34:23So yeah, I want to be like the Fenty Beauty, but for accessibility.
34:30Millie. Hi. Hi.
34:31Oh, I'm, I love my makeup. As you probably know, I'm right into it.
34:36Um, deciding to start a business in cosmetics to then going about sourcing, finding suppliers,
34:42it's quite a big job. Do you have any experience in this industry?
34:45Yeah. So I worked for a big beauty company and their product development team for 18 months.
34:49So I sat in on supplier meetings. I actually, you know, realized that a lot of beauty brands,
34:56they all make their products in the same factories and it's all about branding and packaging.
35:00It's all about branding and packaging, which takes me beautifully on to what I believe is the real USP
35:06of this business, which is you. Yeah.
35:08You know, you, you, this is what you're buying into you and the face of the brand.
35:13Yeah. And you seem very happy to be out there and to be the face of this brand.
35:17Yeah. In what ways do you think you've managed to achieve that?
35:20And in what ways do you think you are, you need some help or you're not achieving your potential in
35:25that area?
35:26Honestly, in front, in terms of me being the face of the brand, I'm confident with it.
35:32I have like a big following on LinkedIn now. People come to me when they want to have someone talking
35:38around accessibility or the beauty industry. I had a documentary made about me called Born Different
35:45and they got 10 million subscribers. That's a whole series about people living with rare conditions.
35:50And how long ago was that? That was about a year ago.
35:55So am I right in reading into this with your numbers that the challenge you've had
36:00is commercialising you as a celebrity endorser of this brand?
36:05Yes. I've been good at community building over the last kind of six months to a year,
36:11but it's now trying to convert more people into sales. So there's a few things I need help with.
36:17Social media is a big one and how to convert and like TikTok shop and things like that.
36:25Because at the moment, videos that do well for me is me doing story times or talking about ableism
36:31in the wild is what we call it. So trying to figure out how to turn that style of content
36:35into sales.
36:39It's a really, really inspiring story. And it's, um, I love sitting in this chair because I get to meet
36:45people who have given me this wonderful reminder of
36:49human perseverance and creativity and ingenuity and how there's so many people out there fighting to change things.
36:55Um, the bit as a business case. Yeah.
37:00It's not a financial investment for me. Okay. So I'm going to say that I'm out, but
37:09I'm willing to invest my time, which means that I'm inviting you to come to my offices in central London,
37:14hang out with me and my team. We can teach you the dark arts of social media marketing that you're
37:18seeking.
37:19Yeah. And, um, and hopefully that will give you what you're looking for. Thank you. So that's an offer from
37:25me.
37:26It's not a financial one. So I am out, but, um, I'm offering to invest my time. Okay. Thank you
37:30so much.
37:33That's a great offer. I mean, you have this brilliant and unique story to tell. Yeah.
37:40I am a little worried that, that you are competing in this massively noisy pool over here and getting
37:49voice is going to be hard. So that is a fantastic offer because you're going to need all your help
37:53that you can get in that. I know it's time. It's a baby at the moment, but it hasn't really
37:58shown where it can go. And I'm finding it difficult to see it as an investment, to be perfectly honest.
38:03So all the best, Millie, but I won't be investing. I'm out. Okay. Thank you.
38:11Millie, you are the absolute epitome of driving determination can overcome anything. Yeah.
38:18However, I've got to be backing you as an entrepreneur and this business as a business
38:24concept. And when I look at the business, the concern for me is there's nothing in the numbers
38:31that gives me the confidence that that £50,000 is going to be a great investment and give me great
38:36return on investment. Okay. So, I've got to say that I'm out. Okay.
38:41However, I've no doubt you are going to do great things and I'm going to look forward to watching
38:45this journey. Yeah, thank you.
38:54Millie, on your own, you've done a remarkable journey.
39:01You cannot continue on your own.
39:03Yeah, I know.
39:05Stephen's offered you a great opportunity.
39:07Mm-hmm.
39:08I will offer you help sourcing, if you want to source them from China.
39:15So, that is an offer. However, on the investment side, you can hear where I'm going to.
39:23Mm-hmm.
39:24You know, I just feel you're not ready.
39:27Okay.
39:27You know?
39:27Yeah.
39:28So, what you're offering me today is not investable.
39:31Mm-hmm.
39:32And I'm out. However, my offer stands to help you alongside Stephen. He'll do the marketing,
39:39hopefully. And if you want any help on the sourcing, I will help you.
39:42Thank you. I appreciate it.
39:47Well, Millie, you've done quite well. You haven't given anything away of your company.
39:51And you've ended up what you came in for, apart from the cash.
39:56I really like the brand, actually. But what's more striking is that I do think,
40:02you know, if you look at this, you are actually individually the definition of human beauty.
40:10I think you, you've got something very, very special.
40:16You needed a life-changing moment, and I think that's what you've got.
40:20And I'm going to slightly add to that, because I think you deserve a break.
40:27When Tuca develops the products, Stephen develops the social media,
40:31I'm going to tell my team to help you distribute and sell online your products that you develop.
40:39And that way, you get to keep all of your company, which you deserve.
40:44So I'm going to provide that offer for you. I'm going to say that I'm out in terms of giving
40:49you the cash.
40:49Yeah.
40:52But boy, you've won today.
40:53Well done.
40:55Well done, Libby.
40:56You might have done the best deal I've ever seen in the day.
40:58You've given away none of your business, and you've got loads of help.
41:03Well done.
41:04Thank you very much.
41:05Well done.
41:06Thanks.
41:10From cosmetic purveyor to dragon slayer, Millie leaves without any investment,
41:16but she's secured the support of three dragons without surrendering a shred of her company.
41:22I'm feeling overwhelmed, to be honest. To have Tuca, Stephen and Peter's help is,
41:30yeah, it's game changing for me. They're going to be able to help me with the exact things that I
41:35need to be able to get a human beauty out to more people and make a real change.
41:40Wasn't she just so impressive though?
41:43After all she's been through to have the guts to come into the den,
41:47which I think I'd even be terrified to do.
41:50The key learnings is that I've done a really good job,
41:53and that people believe in me, which is really cool.
42:10Hi, I'm Carla, and I'm from Hampshire.
42:14We are ready. We are ready. Nothing's never been so ready.
42:18I want to empower women to wear their hair however they want,
42:22to not feel that they have to wear it in a certain way to look professional or smart.
42:29Cheers.
42:31Is it a hair wrap?
42:32I think it's a hair wrap, yeah.
42:34So you'd wear that in the shower, would you?
42:35No, you wear it after the shower to dry your hair.
42:38Why don't you just put a towel on your head?
42:39Because they dry much, much faster. So your hair dries much faster,
42:43and it reduces your hair drying time, which reduces your electricity consumption.
42:48And also, it dries faster after it gets wet.
42:51I haven't got time for all this. Just use a hair dryer and we're done.
42:55I started the business when I was 51 years old,
42:58and I want to really champion the message that it's never too late.
43:01And people in their middle age, especially women, can do anything they put their mind to.
43:09You're going to be ace, epic and awesome.
43:12It's epic and awesome.
43:24Hi, Dragons. I'm Carla, founder of Good Wash Day, a direct-to-consumer hair care brand.
43:31Good Wash Day hair towels are made in the UK, and it's 95% organic Jersey cotton.
43:37They reduce friction, damage, frizz and drying time.
43:41The ethos of the business is paramount.
43:44From the choice of fabric to the eco-friendly packaging,
43:48offcuts are used to make period products for marginalized communities in Kenya.
43:53And every month, I gift towels to people affected by chemotherapy,
43:57whose scalps can be sensitive.
43:59There are 11,000 Good Wash Day towels around the world,
44:03resulting in a net profit from year two and a six-figure turnover in year three.
44:08How did I get here?
44:10During the pandemic, I stopped a 25-year hair straightening habit and learned to look after my waves and curls.
44:17I kept reading that we should be using a microfiber towel or a t-shirt to dry our hair.
44:23I wanted a hair towel made from t-shirt fabric.
44:27I took everything that I have learned in the business degree I completed in my 40s and I started my
44:33business.
44:35I'm looking for £40,000 in exchange for 10% of the business.
44:40Thank you for listening to my pitch.
44:45Towels, intended to be kind to both hair and the planet, are the offering from Carla Saw.
44:53What's the difference between that and a towel on your head?
44:56It's how it treats your hair. It's a very soft fabric.
45:01It absorbs the water from your hair instead of making it frizzy.
45:07Thanks very much.
45:08Thanks very much.
45:10Carla is seeking £40,000 for 10% of her business.
45:16Perfect, Stephen.
45:18But will the dragons view hairdos as investment don'ts?
45:25Carla, hi.
45:26Hi, Peter.
45:27It's great, isn't it?
45:28Well, you can demonstrate a product, does exactly what it says on the tin.
45:31Um, so this is a Jersey cotton.
45:34It's organic Jersey cotton, yes.
45:36And where's it made?
45:38It's grown in Turkey.
45:39And I have them made in the UK.
45:41OK.
45:42You said that you've taken the business to six figures.
45:45Yes.
45:46What did you turn over last year?
45:48Last year, I turned over £141,000 with a net profit of £25,000.
45:56Carla Tuka, um...
45:58Yes.
45:59What does that cost you?
46:01To have a complete towel made, it's about £7.50.
46:05How much?
46:06£7.50.
46:08Yeah, um, you could buy this in China.
46:11I mean, you could probably get it all made without the box.
46:16Yeah.
46:17You're probably talking of, um, £2?
46:21Yeah.
46:22And what do they sell for you?
46:23£30.
46:24It's expensive.
46:26People buy multiple, but I do take your point, and if ever my brand faces criticism, like I've got about,
46:33out of the 968 reviews I've got, about 20 are not five star.
46:40And those 20 say, love the product, does exactly what it says.
46:45It's expensive for a piece of fabric, so I get that.
46:46I mean, it's a £20 product, if that.
46:49I mean, if you're doing volume of these, you could probably be outsourcing all of this, and you can bring
46:55the cost right down.
46:58Carla.
46:58Hi.
46:59Hi, Sarah.
47:00So tell me, what inspired you to go back to university as a mature student to do your business degree?
47:05I left school at 16 with one O-level and went straight out to work, and then I had our
47:11two sons, and I willingly took a 10-year career break to be at home with the children.
47:16But whenever I looked for jobs, they needed a degree, and I thought a business degree is the degree to
47:21do.
47:22So, because I hadn't even done A-levels, I had to really, I mean, I hadn't even written academically before,
47:29so it was a learning curve.
47:31So, well done.
47:32Yeah, thank you.
47:33Fantastic.
47:34Thank you, Peter.
47:35And so do you think you've used a lot of what you've learned in your business degree when you've set
47:39up the business?
47:40Definitely.
47:41So, I, just touching on that as well, in my early 40s, I actually was diagnosed with PTSD.
47:52Which I had sort of, um, some things had happened to me that I hadn't told anyone.
48:05So, I had lots of therapy in my 40s, and then I thought I could take on the world.
48:11Do you know what?
48:12I think you've clearly been very self-reflective for whatever's happened.
48:16Um, and I have a huge amount of admiration for anybody that, that does that, because that's, that's really, really
48:23tough to do when things haven't been good.
48:29I want to give you a cuddle.
48:38Oh, you're a long hugger.
48:40I love a long hugger.
48:41Oh.
48:42It's got to be at least six seconds or it doesn't count.
48:44Oh, now you've, right, I'm there.
48:46It's also nice to see a smile on your face, because when you came in, you were so serious.
48:51I guess that was nerves.
48:53Yeah, and I keep reminding myself, it'd be really weird if I wasn't nervous, wouldn't it?
48:56You're absolutely right, but it is nice to see a smile back on your face, able to talk about stuff.
49:02So, so, I think your approach to this business warrants me unpicking it a little bit more.
49:10Yes.
49:10Because you are absolutely founded on ethics, which, of course, I love.
49:15Um, so, talk through those things that you hold really dear, so that when somebody buys one of these towels,
49:23they know that they're buying into certain things that they really care about.
49:28Yeah.
49:28So, people really do like the Made in the UK.
49:31Those stickers that are stuck on the tissue paper are made from 95% sugarcane fibres and 5% hemp
49:38and linen,
49:39and the adhesive is biodegradable and compostable.
49:43My offcuts are minimal.
49:45Most of my supplies come from other UK businesses, many of which are female-founded, which I love.
49:52So, that ethos of my business is absolutely paramount.
49:56And I am, I really want to make it clear that moving forward, I have to keep my ethics in
50:01place.
50:01Well, that's why, that's why I asked.
50:03And actually, it's really important to establish what your ethics are,
50:05because we all have our own version of what's really important to us.
50:09Yes.
50:09But you're embracing planet.
50:11Yeah.
50:11And you're embracing people.
50:14Yes.
50:14So that you, any decision you make is being filtered through those.
50:18Yes.
50:18Which is fantastic.
50:20Yes.
50:22Um, it's difficult for me, because I'm invested in a business that actually makes hair wraps.
50:28Yes.
50:28So it does make it very, very difficult for me to invest.
50:32Yes.
50:32Because if I'm talking about a product, which one am I talking about?
50:35Yeah.
50:36You know, and I will find that really difficult.
50:39Yeah.
50:39So no reflection on you at all, Carla.
50:42Um, but I think to be fair, I, I, I shouldn't be investing in you.
50:46Yeah.
50:47So I'm afraid I'm out.
50:48Thank you, Deborah.
50:49I appreciate that.
50:52Carla, I'm going to tell you where I am.
50:53Okay.
50:54What you've done is really, really great because you've done what's quite rare is you've built
50:57your business slow and sustainably, which I can really, really, really admire.
51:02And you've taken the hard road, as you've said, from your personal journey.
51:04So I've got a huge amount of admiration for you.
51:09However, I'm really looking for businesses that I think have the potential to deliver
51:15really outsized returns in a relatively short time horizon.
51:20But I don't see that potential in this business.
51:25So I'm going to say that I'm out.
51:27Thank you, Stephen.
51:31Um, you're very credible.
51:34And I'm surprised you've, you've done the turnover you've done.
51:37You know, that's good.
51:40For a basic product like that.
51:43But the fact that you've got one product.
51:45Yeah.
51:45Worries me.
51:47In a way, I mean, I could give you the 40,000.
51:50I probably never, probably won't sit back for a long time.
51:53You know?
51:54Projections I would be able to pay back within two years.
51:57How would you envisage that working?
52:01I was envisaging if there's any, if I was lucky enough to get an offer and there was
52:07some haggling that I, that I, and you wanted to offer more, totally shooting myself in the
52:13foot here.
52:14I would be able to have some negotiation power around, but okay, if I give you your money
52:22back in two years.
52:23You'd have to make 200,000 in profit, though, to be able to do that.
52:26So it's, that's quite tough to be able to do that.
52:28Yeah, okay, yeah.
52:29Noted.
52:29So to do that is a, is a dividend repeat.
52:32But I can see what you're meaning.
52:34Can I just say something as well?
52:35So being in Dragon's City, not really about luck.
52:38So if you get an offer, it's not because you've been lucky.
52:41Yeah.
52:42It's because you've done really well.
52:46So I'd like to make you that offer.
52:48Okay.
52:48It's not luck.
52:49Poker face.
52:52However, you have shot yourself in the foot on your negotiation.
52:54Yeah, that's all right.
52:56So I will offer you all 40,000 for 20% of the business, reducing to 10% if I
53:05get my money
53:06returned in two years.
53:08That's a reflection, though, on how well you're pitched and how great a businesswoman I think
53:12you are.
53:17That's a good offer.
53:19In one way, I want to help you because I can see that you are very determined.
53:29I know I can help you in the sense of helping you source the product.
53:37So I will give you all of the money, 40,000, but I want 30%.
53:45And in this case, actually, I just, I wanted to share because I know what I can do at the
53:55sourcing end.
53:57Thank you, Toker.
53:58I appreciate that.
53:59Okay.
54:00Peter, what do you think?
54:04I think you've clearly, clearly created a great product.
54:10But I'm also thinking, do you know what?
54:12This is a business that you could make a huge amount of money, and I think you've been so
54:17fair asking for just 40,000 pounds for 10%.
54:20I think you've done everything right, Carla.
54:23Thank you, Peter.
54:24That means a lot.
54:28Toker, you know, he's very good at the sourcing side.
54:36And I'm brilliant at everything else.
54:40I would be willing to match and share it with Toker.
54:45So I would be willing to offer you 20,000 pounds for 15%.
54:50Thank you, Peter.
54:53Would you like to cover things?
54:54Yes, thank you.
54:59It's decision time for Carla.
55:03Sarah Davies has offered 40,000 pounds in return for 20% of the business, dropping to
55:09the 10% Carla was originally seeking once the investment has been repaid.
55:15Always have teamed up again.
55:18While Tuka Suleiman and Peter Jones have joined forces to table a 30% bid.
55:32Thank you so much for all the offers.
55:38Tuka, I feel that we are on quite separate paths in terms of the ethos.
55:44And I think at my point in life, I need to stay where I'm headed.
55:54Peter, would you consider sharing with Sarah, please, on her terms?
56:05It means I'd get 5%.
56:08Too low.
56:12Could you put it up a bit?
56:16Could we go 10% for each of you for the 40,000?
56:24We could.
56:27I'm just going to be really honest because I feel like I'm wanting to look out for you here.
56:30Yes, thank you.
56:31It means you've given away twice as much of your business than what you need to do.
56:36But I think you need to sit and question, is there something that Peter brings to this
56:42that you feel confident that I can't?
56:44What is it that you want, Carla?
56:46Because obviously, you know, everybody has their own opinion.
56:49I mean, the fact that Sarah's obviously deluded that I don't add more value.
56:56Just explain that in a sentence if you can for me.
56:59I think, actually, whilst you've said that, Peter, I'm so grateful for your offer and your
57:06hug was amazing.
57:09Sarah, I'd really like to accept your offer because I feel like it's the best fit for me.
57:18Carla.
57:18Well done.
57:19It's great.
57:19Thank you, Sarah.
57:21Success for Carla.
57:23You made a great offer.
57:24You've got a fantastic business and we're going to do great things together.
57:26We're going to do great things together.
57:27Well done, Carla.
57:28Thank you so much.
57:29Really pleased for you.
57:29Thank you, everybody.
57:31She leaves the den with £40,000, having struck a deal which has left some of the dragons splitting
57:39hairs.
57:40She's lovely and I think you're a good partner as well.
57:42And I am not deluded, Mr. Jones.
57:44Oh, you are.
57:45You can't even do a quarter of what I can do.
57:48I think I'm the perfect fit for her.
57:51I am just thrilled that I've got a dragon and that dragon is Sarah Davis.
57:56And I just think she's going to be amazing for my business.
58:09Dragon's Den will return later in the year.
58:12I've got 50 years experience.
58:14You've got five years.
58:16Yeah, 50 years.
58:17Yeah!
58:18Ah!
58:19This is the messiest set of negotiations I think I've ever heard.
58:23You've remortgaged your houses.
58:25Yeah.
58:26Yeah.
58:26I'm a gambling man and I want to take a punt on you.
58:28It kind of sounds like you're trying to employ me.
58:31Oh, will it?
58:32I mean, if I'm on here, then I'm clearly doing something right.
58:35Just let me finish speaking for just a second.
58:36I'm afraid this ain't going to work.
58:38In that case, unfortunately, Deborah, you're out.
58:41Wow.