- 2 days ago
A political row erupted over Rahul Gandhi’s remarks on Prime Minister Narendra Modi's foreign policy and Congress leader Sandeep Dixit’s comments involving Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:03Let me read out the statistics of the monsoon session of Parliament.
00:08The Parliament was adjourned, sign a die. 12 bills passed, 11 without discussion.
00:14When you look at the productivity, when you look at the output,
00:17the output of Lok Sabha was just 19%.
00:21The output of productivity of Rajasabha, just a little better, 39%.
00:26But if you were to juxtapose this with school results,
00:30both the Lok Sabha and the Rajasabha failed.
00:33They did not secure the basic minimum 40% marks.
00:37The house was noisy. Of course, if the house is noisy, you have a debate.
00:43It's a vibrant democracy. But here, there was bawaal.
00:47Where was the behest? Where was the debate? Where were the discussions?
00:52The record, it's quite sad. 12 bills passed in this session, only one.
00:57There was discussion. The situation in Rajasabha, 39%.
01:016 crore rupees. That's right.
01:04Ladies and gentlemen, it takes approximately 6 crore rupees to run the house for 6 hours.
01:08So, if you were to look at the statistics of this session, 200 crore rupees were lost.
01:15200 crore rupees lost because of the hours wasted.
01:19Imagine the number of schools you could have had, the number of colleges, hospitals, infrastructure projects.
01:26Why do you have a parliament if there is no debate?
01:28The lower house began proceedings.
01:30Of course, there was Vande Matram and the full version of the Vande Matram.
01:34You've watched those images.
01:36Everyone in the house, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Home Minister Amit Shah, opposition members,
01:41they were all there when Vande Matram was sung.
01:44But then the house was adjourned, sign a die.
01:46The opposition and the government remained at loggerheads throughout this session.
01:51Whatever, and there were multiple issues.
01:53The protests by the Kokrit Janata Party at Janatar Mantar.
01:57The use of force by the security forces.
02:00Demand of resignation of the, initially the education minister.
02:04Then an apology by the Home Minister, Prime Minister.
02:06Resignation of the Home Minister.
02:08Once parliament was adjourned, political leaders once again engaged in a blame game.
02:13So you had the opposition blaming the treasury benches, the treasury benches blaming leader of opposition.
02:18Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kiran Rijiju lashed out at the opposition saying the government wanted a debate.
02:23But the opposition fled, calling it the first ever opposition to run away from a debate.
02:30Kiran Rijiju called it a new law in parliamentary debates.
02:33The opposition hit back at the government saying both Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the Union Home Minister Amit Shah
02:38did not attend the parliament.
02:40They may have been in the parliament house premises, but they weren't in the house.
02:43And this, according to them, was showing no respect to the temple of democracy.
02:49Listen in.
03:23They want to demoralize parliament members and they want to demoralize parliament members and they want to
03:40the parliament.
03:42The most irresponsible behavior of Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
03:46The most irresponsible behavior of Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
03:47One soon sessionches in the world in all positions.
03:52Whatever have to have ever eaten the world, those things have been the most productive work being the most ruthless.
03:56The most productive work being the most profitable behaviour of Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
04:01only because of the ego of one person
04:04the whole session
04:08it was derailed
04:11and it was just arrogance
04:14and there is no reason
04:16we will come for the song
04:19we will come
04:20we will come
04:22the whole session is going
04:23neither the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister
04:26so how will this happen
04:28these people and the Parliament
04:29Rahul Ghandi
04:31so many days
04:32we have to listen
04:35we have to listen
04:36we have to say
04:36when he said
04:37when he said
04:39that I have 24 hours
04:40I will come to hear
04:41that I will come to hear
04:45Rahul Ghandi
04:46are
04:47Rahul Ghandi
04:48are
04:48Naitagiri
04:49are
04:50where they are
04:51the question of Rachi
04:52the question of F.I.R.
04:54there are
04:55the kids
04:56who are
04:57who are
05:00it is the worst kind of hypocrisy not only of rahul gandhi but all those who have championed
05:06their cause are keeping quiet from aam admi party to popular janta party all and the so-called
05:13bombay elite who used to come in support of them so no doubt is the responsibility of the treasury
05:21benches to ensure smooth functioning of parliament but is it also not the opposition's responsibility
05:25to ensure issues are debated on the floor of the house in parliament for the nation to hear all
05:31sides and if the opposition wants to put the government on the mat do that do that listen to
05:37the government make your points let the nation benefit and then let the nation decide 19 percent
05:43productivity in lok sabha 38 percent in rajasaba haven't our lawmakers failed the nation both the
05:48government and the opposition disruption or debate who is going to keep india first indians first
05:55joining me on this india first debate is sanju varma national spokesperson of the bhartiya janta
06:00party dr shamba mohammad represents the congress party rajat sethi and ashutosh join us as political
06:06analysts and i want to begin by asking you sanju varma isn't it the job of the government of the
06:12treasury benches to ensure the house functions reach out to the opposition you heard priyanka gandhi
06:17right now the prime prime minister or the home minister they may have come to the parliament
06:22premises why weren't they in the house shouldn't the home minister have made a statement and then
06:29put the onus on the opposition you know gaurav first and foremost let's get one thing very clear
06:36you're a seasoned journalist and you know how parliament procedures function i want to ask one
06:43thing to the opposition through your show i will answer your question i'm not running away from the
06:47uncomfortable truth under section 257 259 263 267 beat rajasaba the opposition including leader of
06:59opposition rahul gandhi they need to give a mandatory ten-ten notice period if they want to discuss any
07:04issue which they think is pertinent if they think any issue is relevant and important
07:09my question is to rahul gandhi who's been behaving like a clown outside the parliament and like a troll
07:15inside the parliament did rahul gandhi as leader of the opposition give the mandatory
07:21ten-day notice period to have a discussion in question r during question r my brief interruption
07:27you do make your point and you complete your point i would just request you just keep this civil
07:32because otherwise you and the congress would spar on terminology and not on the substantive point but go
07:38ahead ma'am complete your point thank you thank you gaurav you know gaurav decency and decorum
07:45outside the parliament premises so i don't think bjp needs lessons this is not for you gaurav bjp does not
07:52need lessons in decency or decorum from the darbari ecosystem second now let me come to the moot point
08:00that you ask a 10-day notice period is mandatory to have a discussion during question r
08:05did rahul gandhi as europe give the 10-day notice to have a discussion on need no
08:11did rahul gandhi as europee give a 10-day mandatory notice to om virla the speaker
08:17to have a discussion on the events that transpired on the 20th of july no did rahul gandhi give the
08:24mandatory 10-day notice period to have a discussion on the so-called chandachori about which congress
08:29has been howling from every move stop no forget question r one of the biggest parliamentary procedures
08:37which is very specific to indian democracy is zero r zero r may you don't need to give the mandatory
08:4410-day notice period yes you can raise the opposition no p any issue that you think is relevant to
08:51the
08:51nation i want to ask the opposition zero r starts at 12 in the noon the moment parliament used to
09:00start it used to get adjourned because rahul gandhi sloganeering naraybazi or battam easy
09:06let me take this to dr shama mohammad fair enough ma'am you've made your opening statement let me get
09:13dr shama mohammad to respond uh dr mohammad any issue that needs to be raised
09:19lop or opposition can raise this uh whether it's in zero r or if you want the government to speak
09:26the home minister says fine i will make a statement shouldn't rahul gandhi uh or the opposition listen
09:33to the home minister the opposition is being accused of repeatedly changing the goalpost ma'am
09:39god of savants we have also run the parliament during the years there has been an attack on our
09:47students by the delhi police pellet guns batons with nails they have been thrashed we have been
09:55asking the home minister to come and give a statement to ask him what exactly happened that day did he
10:02authorize it if he did not then why did the delhi police do it now let you let me give
10:08you an example
10:08december 16th mirbaya was raped the opposition created hangama december 19th sushil kumar shinde in
10:21parliament gave statement in the lok sabha and the rajas sabha and on top of that he admitted there are
10:30lapses on the delhi police because that bus had tinted glasses it should not have the bus was chaland
10:37multiple times it did not have registration how did was the bus running and we admitted there was a
10:43mistake now here the delhi police has beaten up our students on live camera every one of us saw we
10:51requested the home minister to come to the parliament and give a statement what exactly happened he refused
10:58to come thinking that this is a dictatorship that he does not need to answer now these my leader rahul
11:04gandhi
11:05represents a constituency he's a leader of opposition and all those uh members of parliament sitting in
11:12the opposition are representing people all over india indians all over including people who are working
11:19for me everybody's asking how did the police kill him how did the child kill him how did he kill
11:26him
11:27so it is not these representatives
11:31sanju varma i will come to you but let me bring in rajat sethi uh dr shamao mohammad you made
11:36a valid
11:36point rajat sethi you've heard both sides shouldn't the home minister have come to the floor of the house
11:42and made a statement whether the opposition listens or not make a statement
11:49we will listen if you made the statement 20 days ago he just comes on the last minute for just
11:55for
11:55the one day martin okay that's the problem fair enough rajat sethi and then ashutosh sanju varma i'm
12:01coming back to you i'm coming back to you ma'am rajat sethi so um gaurav i think yes the
12:07home minister
12:08should have come and made the statement uh but you need to uh provide the you need to allow the
12:13parliament to function in order for that to happen i 100 agree with shamaji on this point that yes he
12:19should have made a uh made a proper statement following uh uh whatever discussions and debates
12:26that could have happened on this topic because we were not able to hear his side of the story at
12:30all
12:30maybe there were certain exigencies in the protest maybe uh you know the delhi police and the crpf they
12:36would have uh collected more evidences as to the kind of people and what kind of uh elements had
12:41entered into the students protest and they were trying to uh uh basically uh bring bring the security
12:46of the parliament into question a lot of these members of parliament that are sitting there their
12:50lives could have been at risk i mean we could not hear and that's a sad story that we couldn't
12:55even
12:55hear the home minister that what were some of those uh operational imperatives around which uh
13:00something like this had to be used so i think it's a missed opportunity but whom do you blame on
13:04this
13:05my point is that had it been you see everybody is playing to the gallery there is it's not like
13:11uh uh congress party is here is with all the props and i i think this session is is one
13:17session where
13:18maximum props were used uh to bring in uh to drive down a point barring what should have happened on
13:23the
13:23floor of the house instead of doing the dramatics outside the parliament you should have given that okay
13:28i'll give you two three hours let's have a discussion and let us then nail down or pin down the
13:33home
13:33minister of this country around what he did then you can hold him accountable you could have served
13:38your politics better that way absolutely it suits the opposition it suits the opposition ashutosh and
13:45you know you've covered parliament for very long uh and you know so wear a journalist hat wear an
13:51analyst hat your political hat how do you read this should the home minister or on his own have come
13:58to
13:58the house made a statement because an incident after all it took place after all there are pellet
14:02guns injuries after all everyone can see batons with nails that were there those images are there
14:08for the world to see or should the opposition have given an opportunity to the home ministers to speak
14:14especially after their demand for the education minister's resignation had been met sir
14:21see gaurav the parliament is also run by the parliamentary convention and the parliamentary
14:26convention has been as per my experience of the three decades of watching parliament that if any big
14:32event happened outside the parliament the first thing happens in the next day in the parliament is
14:37the concern minister comes and make a statement sue a motor it's not that the opposition should demand
14:43that he should come and make a statement he did not do that and that is the crux of the
14:48matter
14:48now i am going much deeper than what rajat has said i'm going much deep much deeper is the the
14:55fundamental of the parliamentary democracy is what the accountability of the government
15:00elects the elects the prime minister and and and and then the government is formed but if the if the
15:08head of the government who is the leader of the house and is second in command refuses to come to
15:14the
15:14house for good 22 days that means either he doesn't the does it doesn't think that he's accountable to
15:22the parliament or he's just making a mockery of the whole parliamentary democracy i can accuse
15:27rahul gandhi for creating all kinds of hangar in the parliament and i can i will go on and on
15:32and say that he's
15:32a responsible person but what about the prime minister and the home minister if they felt accountable if
15:39they if if they felt that they have some responsibility towards the parliament they should have come to
15:44the parliament not not just for a few seconds in the parliament but an old every days i can i
15:50can just
15:51tell you gaurat just another 20 seconds when the china war was happening when the opposition demanded the
15:56session yes the jabal and nehru was there yes and he made 30 more than 30 interventions more than 30
16:05intervention and he sat through the parliament sat through the sir give me a moment as breaking news
16:09coming in leader of opposition in loksawa give me a moment i'm coming back to the story uh news is
16:14coming in leader of opposition in loksawa rahul gandhi he's taken a jibe at prime minister narendra modi
16:20uh on his foreign policy uh during the congress's national convention in the national capital so he was
16:27addressing a packed gathering rahul gandhi said and i quote words to the effect i will show you what
16:33foreign policy means for modi unquote and then he dramatically spread his arms and move to hug
16:38congress leader sandeep dekship using that gesture which is being seen by some to mock prime minister
16:45narendra modi's hug to foreign leaders rahul gandhi further went on to say someone had apparently put
16:53the idea in the prime minister's mind foreign policy is all about hugging foreign leaders joining in
17:00sandeep dekship asked you didn't hug me thinking i was melanie did you unquote and this drew laughter
17:09and sharp reactions from the audience i want you to listen in i'll come i'll we'll come back for more
17:16on
17:16this foreign policy is this
17:32a patarik kisne dala kaha se khusa
17:36kira kira ki why foreign policy ka mazan krima imagine imagine the ignorance foreign policy
17:45hanani melanie samaz ke ata
17:51i have not i have not reached there yet but but
18:08You want to respond to this, Dr. Shama Mohamad?
18:12At the National Convention of the Congress, when you look at these images,
18:17you have Sandeep Dixit who asks,
18:19Melanie, she didn't have to get rid of it.
18:22Now, this is diplomacy, this is foreign policy,
18:25and this is what is being said, Dr. Mohamad.
18:28Rahul Gandhi has not used the word Melanie.
18:31Let's understand, Rahul Gandhi gave him a hug.
18:33I've seen the Prime Minister of India.
18:35You know, I was appalled, he's appalled, every time he hugs foreigners.
18:40I'm married to a foreigner, and I know that they do not like to be hugged.
18:44They like their hands to be shaken, and when they get, you know, familiar with you,
18:48they do a hug or a kiss.
18:50But it is not done.
18:51So, he hugs everybody, including President Trump, Macron, Trudeau, whoever.
19:00It's not about male or female.
19:02He hugs everyone.
19:03Now, Rahul Gandhi did not make any jive.
19:05And let's understand, Rahul Gandhi has never said what the Prime Minister of India has said.
19:09The most sexist remark is,
19:13So, let's not change goalposts, Gaurav Sabu.
19:17No, this has just happened.
19:18This has just come in.
19:19This has just come in.
19:20There's nothing wrong.
19:21This is news that's just come in.
19:22Oh, you think there's nothing wrong?
19:24You think there's nothing wrong?
19:25You think there's nothing wrong?
19:26Fair enough?
19:28Fair enough?
19:29Sanju Verma?
19:29Rahul Gandhi has not said one word.
19:30He just hugged.
19:32And that is what Prime Minister Modi is.
19:34Sanju Verma wants to come in.
19:36Okay, give me a moment.
19:38Give me a moment before I bring in Sanju Verma.
19:40Just listen in.
19:42Listen in once again.
19:43He has the right to hug.
19:44He should stop hugging.
19:45He is insulting our self-reflect.
19:48Yes, Sanju Verma wants to come in.
19:49Sanju Verma wants to come in.
19:51But before that, just take a look at what happened.
19:54Okay.
19:57Foreign policy is this.
20:15Foreign policy is this.
20:20Foreign policy is this.
20:22Foreign policy is this.
20:22One thing I can say is that I didn't get rid of it.
20:33Sanju Verma wanted to react to this.
20:37The hypocrisy and Melanie didn't get rid of it.
20:42You know, Governor, what I just saw on the screen that is deplorable, despicable and is certainly
20:49not becoming of Rahul Gandhi, who is the leader of the opposition.
20:53It's also not becoming of any mature politician who actually aspires to be the Prime Minister someday.
21:00But that is not the moot point.
21:01The moot point is this.
21:03Each time Rahul Gandhi takes a jibe at Prime Minister Narendra Modi on his foreign policy, let me tell you
21:09in 20 seconds, this is what the Indian side achieved thanks to Narendra Modi and Modi diplomacy.
21:15We signed the India UK FTA, India Oman FTA, India New Zealand FTA, India European Union FTA, India US interim
21:25trade framework is in the works, India ASEAN FTA.
21:29Then we signed India Singapore FTA, India Australia FTA and we have received in the last 12 years 869 billion
21:40dollars in FDI, which is long term capital.
21:44Whereas under the Congress, we did not even get for the longest time 100 billion dollars.
21:50So Rahul Gandhi, please go back and educate yourself and my final point, 50 crore ki girlfriend ke baare me
21:57ab bar bar holte ho, this is the same Rahul Gandhi, who ahead of Lok Sabha 2024 said,
22:03yeh joo modi yeh na, jab yeh chunao hao gae ga na, yeh joo desh ki janta hai na, sadko
22:08pa raa kar is ki pitai karayi.
22:10That is the language of a third rated troll called Rahul Gandhi, unfit to be leader of the opposition.
22:18Before I bring in Ashutosh and Rajat, okay, okay, Dr. Shamaa Mohamad, you wanted to respond to this.
22:25Yes, go on now.
22:27No Prime Minister in the history of India has said during campaign,
22:31aapke mangal sutra chin ke congress party musalmano ko denge, aapke behas chin ke congress party musalmano ko denge.
22:41Can you imagine?
22:42Who has told this?
22:43The Prime Minister of India.
22:45I mean, I am also part of this country.
22:48Who speaks in that tone?
22:50This man is not a Prime Minister.
22:54He does not behove that chair.
22:56He should be kicked out.
22:57Ma'am, he has been elected three times, but go on, respond.
23:00No, he was a rabid Islamist.
23:03God, I want to say one thing to you.
23:06She thinks I am corrupted this rabid lady.
23:08What is she saying?
23:09I am not corrupted the rabid lady.
23:11She is going to the party.
23:12Okay.
23:12I said, why is this rabid lady barking?
23:15I did not erupt the government.
23:17Why are you acting like a girl on the TV?
23:19No.
23:19Stop behaving.
23:20I am a rabid, rabid lady.
23:22One by one.
23:23This is a debate.
23:24Shamaa Mohamad, you are not a mother, son.
23:26Shant ho jayye.
23:27God, I want to say one thing to you.
23:29No, no.
23:29But why bring that in?
23:31You already have a case.
23:31Why bring that in?
23:32God, you have a case already.
23:34Now I am going to put this into my case.
23:37Okay.
23:38Okay.
23:39Okay.
23:39Let's stay on the subject.
23:41Let's stay on the subject.
23:42Let's stay on the subject.
23:44That I need to come to you.
23:44Yes.
23:46Yes.
23:46One by one.
23:47One by one.
23:48She doesn't have the class.
23:49God, I am.
23:50One by one.
23:50Hold on.
23:50Hold on.
23:51Hold on.
23:51Okay.
23:52Give me 30 seconds, both of you.
23:53Give me 30 seconds, both of you.
23:55Give me 30 seconds.
23:57Just give me 30 seconds, both of you.
23:59I will come back to both of you one by one.
24:01I will come back to both of you.
24:03Just give me 30 seconds.
24:04Rajat.
24:05Only Rajat and then Ashutosh.
24:06You know, just give me 30 seconds.
24:08Let's, you know, dial down the attention just a bit.
24:11Rajat Sethi, when you look at it as an analyst, your reading of the haklomacy and this Melanie
24:19said, I didn't understand it, Sandeep Dixit Singh, Rajat.
24:24Rajat Sethi, it is beyond disgusting, Bharat.
24:27You know, I think in Rahul Gandhi's entire public life, this would be the lowest, I would
24:33say.
24:34And I am, I think Shama Ji is here deep down.
24:37He is a strong, staunch feminist.
24:40When a woman leader rises and becomes the head of a state, in this case, the Italian
24:44prime minister, you go out and make a casual, sexist remark like this.
24:50You are questioning, calling out, mocking a woman's journey to the top echelons of power.
24:57What you did here, under the gaze of Rahul Gandhi, you made a remark, which he did not
25:04stop.
25:05He is complicit in making this absolutely, absolutely despicable comment that was made
25:13from the floor of the, of this, of the stage.
25:16No, Shama Ji, he should have stopped.
25:19You know it.
25:19He did not make a comment.
25:19I respect you as a woman leader tomorrow.
25:22If you go up, go up and become the chief minister of Kerala, and if somebody starts questioning
25:26you, okay, and makes a sexist remark around you or you hugging anybody, you would feel
25:31deeply uncomfortable about it.
25:33You will call it out.
25:33It is deeply sexist and you know it.
25:36Let's please.
25:37And especially when there's a foreign head of government, when a foreign head of government
25:41involved with whom we have very strong relations, India and Italy.
25:45Rajah, Rahul did not say.
25:47Let me bring in Ashutosh.
25:49No, he should have stopped it.
25:50He should have stopped it.
25:51That's what he did.
25:52That's what he did.
25:53No, no, no, he did not.
25:54He made, he made an even pervert statement.
25:57No, no, he stopped it.
25:57He was, under, ghusa, bahar, ghusa, it was all of those things that he said were despicable.
26:02What all he said could be drawn into, there will be a lot of interpretations.
26:05He, when he said that I have not gone to that level is what his exact remarks were.
26:09He could have straight away said, Sandeep Ji, please don't make a sexist remark.
26:12He made a blunder.
26:15It could be a wrong judgment, a bad day of Rahul Gandhi, but Shama Ji, please do not support
26:19this, please.
26:20Okay, I will get you to come in, but I also want Ashutosh to respond since this is just
26:24coming in.
26:25Ashutosh, you want to respond to this Rajnatma Congress National Convention and this sequence
26:31between Rahul Gandhi and Sandeep Dikshit?
26:34No, I completely agree with Rajat Sethi.
26:36This statement should not have been made and Sandeep Dikshit has made a statement which
26:41is disgusting, which is deplorable and which is, I know Sandeep Dikshit personally also.
26:47He's a very enlightened person.
26:49He should not have made a statement like this.
26:52Absolutely, absolutely deplorable, disgusting and it should be, it's continuable.
26:56Absolutely.
26:57See, I can cite you one example, Gaurav.
26:58The long back when George Fernandez was a defense minister and in the context of China,
27:04he made a statement.
27:04He said,
27:05You know what happened?
27:07Talvi Ali Bajpi called him and told him, never made a statement like this because this is
27:11going to affect our foreign policy.
27:13Because Sanju Verma, Sanju Verma, both.
27:15Whether even the opposition are in the government, one should be very careful making such a statement
27:20about a head of the state of any country.
27:22Because it has a foreign policy consequences.
27:25And a close strategic partner of India.
27:28And Sanju Verma, both are sons of very strong mothers, both in public life, both in politics.
27:34Sanju Verma.
27:36You know, Gaurav, let me make one thing very clear.
27:39Sandeep Dikshit is a repeat offender.
27:41He is the same Sandeep Dikshit who called the late CDS, Bipin, Rawat, Sadakka, Gunda.
27:48Show me one apology from Rahul Gandhi.
27:51Rahul Gandhi said,
27:52Yeh toh Sandeep Dikshit ka personal view hai.
27:55Yeh Sandeep Dikshit ka personal statement hai.
27:57Show me one condemnation from Sonia Gandhi.
28:00Did she condemn Sandeep Dikshit?
28:02Otherwise, Sonia Gandhi has all the time in the world to write oped columns on everything under the sun.
28:07So my limited point is this.
28:09The apple does not fall far from the tree.
28:12And Sandeep Dikshit made that shameful statement knowing that ab toh promotion zarur milegi.
28:19Kyunki Modi ji ke saap saap, maynay italian head of state kaabhi maghaak or maghaul ura diya.
28:25He knows that he will be mollycoddled by the darpari ecosystem.
28:28And my final point is this.
28:29You know, everybody keeps saying, oh, Amit Shah dhargai.
28:32Amit Shah dhargai from Rahul Gandhi, jho darpok ki tara bhaag gai.
28:37This is the same Amit Shah.
28:39Thanks to him after 69 years, article 370 was abrogated.
28:43Wait, Gaurav.
28:44Same Amit Shah.
28:45Thanks to whom?
28:47Naxalism was crushed after 59 years.
28:50Rahul Gandhi saap jamu mein aap pradhan mantri to banogai nahi.
28:57But let me come back to this point.
29:00Let me come back to this point.
29:01And I'll come back to that parliamentary debate.
29:03Sanju Verma, stay with me.
29:05Dr. Shama Muhammad, you want to respond to this?
29:07You're a woman politician yourself.
29:10Sheila Dikshit ji was a strong chief minister.
29:13Sonia Gandhiji is a strong political leader.
29:16And such a comment being made in the presence of Rahul Gandhi by Sandeep Dikshit?
29:21No.
29:22See, first and foremost, Rahul Gandhi did not say anything sexist.
29:24First, let me correct that.
29:26Number two, when the rapists of Wilkie's Banu were garlanded and in the Gujarat election,
29:33they were used for campaigning, did Narendra Modi stop it?
29:36I want to know that today.
29:38Did Narendra Modi stop it when his MPs were sitting with the rapists?
29:41When they were campaigning in Gujarat, she is going on talking.
29:44Why did he not stop it?
29:46That was a heinous line.
29:48One by one.
29:49Sanju Varma, when you were speaking, Shama Muhammad didn't interrupt.
29:54Now, multiple times, Haryana government gives release to Gurmit Ram Rahim.
30:01Does Narendra Modi ask the Narendra government?
30:03But does any of that justify this, Dr. Muhammad?
30:06Talk about the answers to this.
30:08Talk about the answer.
30:09How are you going to get raised with these five states which are ruled?
30:15You are the same woman who was actually doing a discussion like this.
30:26One by one, one by one, one by one, one by one, one by one, okay, give me a moment,
30:32one by one, okay, Rajat Sethi, ma'am language, ma'am language, ma'am language, ma'am language, either in
30:43the convention or here, Rajat Sethi, you wanted to come in.
30:48So, Shama ji, you are clutching on two strong arguments here.
30:53You could have just, you know, sort of responded to this very moment.
30:57In all likelihood, Sonia Gandhi ji would be sitting in the audience somewhere.
31:00There were three women on the stage, if I'm not wrong.
31:02And the kind of giggling and laughter we heard after that remark was made from the entire Congress lot sitting
31:08in the audience, that just behoves what Congress stands for.
31:12Tomorrow, you cannot stand on a high horse, high moral horse, and try to lecture on feminism.
31:18That won't work.
31:19You know, you gave a leader like Sonia Gandhi, who was at the helm of affairs of Congress Party.
31:24Tomorrow, if she goes, and if some remark is made against her by anybody else around the world, you wouldn't
31:31take it in a palatable manner.
31:33Similarly, for Rahul Gandhi, he should have stopped.
31:36He should have stopped, and he did not.
31:38He's complicit in this act.
31:40You know, and Dr. Shama Mohammed, I'll get you to respond to this, but Ashutosh, remember, in Parliament, Rahul Gandhi
31:45went and hugged Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
31:48You know, if that hug is right, one hug is right, one hug is wrong, it doesn't seem to add
31:53up, Ashutosh.
31:56See, first of all, in Indian polity, these are not self-goal.
32:03Let's be very clear about it.
32:05The nobody, no political leader, including from the Prime Minister to the leader of opposition, is in a position to
32:09say that they have a purity of language.
32:12The kind of discourse in this country has come to so low that Sonia Gandhi is called as the Jansi
32:18cow.
32:18So let's not get into this.
32:19This is a very dangerous territory.
32:22And when the Pralaj Joshi, the kind of statement he made, when the rapists and the killers of Bilkiswana, when
32:29he came out, he tried to justify it.
32:31So let's not get into this.
32:32Every political party, every political leader is accomplishing this, and they're all part of the lowering down of the public
32:40discourse in the country.
32:41Yes, and is it somebody needs to take a higher ground, Dr. Shama Mohamad?
32:46Gaurav, Gaurav, Gaurav, Gaurav.
32:46Okay, yes, Ashutosh.
32:48I said, I completely agree with Rajat on that point.
32:51This, that Sandeep Dixit should apologize to the public, and Rahul Gandhi should also say sorry for what statement Sandeep
32:58Dixit has made over it.
33:00Fair enough.
33:01Dr. Shama Mohamad, close in comments, ma'am.
33:03No, no, I just want to say one and very clear, my leader Rahul Gandhi respects women.
33:07Let's not forget that when Manipur happened, who was there first?
33:11The women were raped, they were paraded naked.
33:14My leader Rahul Gandhi, who still are there?
33:17Narendra Modi never went there.
33:18Ma'am, let her have her speak.
33:19I will come to you to respond.
33:21Ma'am, just let Dr. Shama Mohamad complete her point.
33:24Ma'am, just let her complete her point.
33:26I will come to you to respond.
33:28You're not being fair to all.
33:29Ma'am, I'm fair to all, equal time to all.
33:32Give me 30 seconds.
33:34Let Dr. Mohamad complete her point.
33:36I'm coming to you, ma'am.
33:37Dr. Mohamad, complete your point, ma'am.
33:38When Hathras happened, Rahul Gandhi was the one who was there first.
33:42It was supposed, they were, you know, they said that, I remember the chief minister of UP saying,
33:49that's a foreign conspiracy.
33:51He went, protested, and in the end, it was clear that CBI probe was there.
33:56It was a high caste who raped this particular Dalit lady.
33:59So, this is what is happening in the country, and every time, there is no case in our party,
34:04where, you know, we have seen the bridge motion case.
34:07Even when that thing happened, the only thing the prime minister should have asked the member
34:12of parliament, please step down till the investigation happens.
34:15That is the norm.
34:16He was never asked to step down.
34:18There were allegations from Europeans.
34:20Let's understand that.
34:21When has the prime minister of India spoken when rapists have been campaigning for them?
34:27Sanju Verma, give her 30 seconds to complete her point.
34:31I'm coming to you after this.
34:32When has it been stood with women of this country?
34:35Fair enough.
34:36You've made your point.
34:37Sanju Verma, respond.
34:39Respond.
34:40Sanju Verma.
34:42Ma'am, you've made your point.
34:44Only Sanju Verma now.
34:46Only Sanju Verma now.
34:48Please.
34:49I need to be there on your screen, just like, you know, the other side is Gaurav.
34:53Gaurav, let me say one thing.
34:55I have been on television debates and I said that what happened with Bilkis Banu was wrong
35:00and I said I am not going to be speaking based on my political ideology because some
35:05things are right, some are wrong, some are black, some are white.
35:08You cannot have gray in between.
35:10I don't see the Darbari ecosystem ever condemning how Rajiv Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi's father, denied
35:19a poor Muslim woman called Shah Bano a monthly alimony of just 179 rupees and got a very quickly
35:27last point.
35:27I have condemned Prajwal Revanna, despite the Modi government being in alliance with
35:32JDS.
35:33But I have not seen Sonia Gandhi, I have not seen Rahul Gandhi, I have not seen Priyanka
35:39Padra who ran to Hathras, saying,
35:43They have not condemned Tarun Tejpal and they have not applauded the judiciary for sentencing
35:50Tarun Tejpal, the poster boy of the Congress regime, to 10 years of rigorous imprisonment.
36:11So is this going down, as Ashutosh says, a very slippery slope?
36:27There will be allegations and counter-allegations, allegations and counter-allegations and nobody
36:33is then raising the level of the debate.
36:35It's competitively going down, Ashutosh?
36:39It's in pits.
36:40The political discourse in the country is in pits and nobody is above that pit.
36:45Let's be very clear about it.
36:47You take any politician in the country from the Prime Minister to the Leader of Opposition,
36:50from Member of Parliament to Ahmadi Party to others.
36:53Everybody uses this language and everybody is competing to denigrate, go to any level
37:00of bad kind of things.
37:02So nobody has a right to, if the Prime Minister has many such statements, including Rahul Gandhi
37:10has also done it.
37:11So I'm not saying that today somebody should be taking a moral high ground.
37:15No, no, no, Rahul Gandhi has done something, something, something.
37:17No, that's not true.
37:18That's one by one.
37:30Everyone, everyone taking, talking together, no point, everyone talking together.
37:35Let Ashutosh complete his point.
37:37Let Ashutosh complete his point, Sanju Garman, I'm coming to you.
37:41So nobody should take a high moral ground on this.
37:44Okay, Rajat, what should Rahul Gandhi and Sandeep Deekshid do at this point of time?
37:51What would, what would you suggest?
37:53And for the benefit of viewers joining us, let's once again listen in to that entire sequence
37:58of the Congress Convention.
37:59Listen in.
38:02Foreign policy is this.
38:21Foreign policy, I mean, imagine the ignorance of foreign policy.
38:35I have not, I have not reached there yet.
38:39I have not reached there yet, Rajat Sethi.
38:42How would you interpret, I have not reached there yet?
38:47Clearly because he was going to make a remark on Meloni, the Italian Prime Minister as well.
38:52Clearly shows his intent that he had zero remotes.
38:55He couldn't even reflect in the moment.
38:57Just shows how immature as a public figure he is.
39:01And he has reached to the absolute, absolute bottom most pit in his political career.
39:07This is that dark day of his politics.
39:09I will again leave him with this advice.
39:12Go back and reflect.
39:14Come back tomorrow morning with Sandeep Deekshid.
39:16Call media and apologize.
39:18I think this is the minimum that you can do to the women leaders of India and women leaders
39:23globally as well.
39:24This is the least that you can do.
39:27Okay.
39:28Dr. Mohamad, Dr. Mohamad, Dr. Mohamad, I have not reached there yet.
39:33I have not reached there yet.
39:35How would you interpret Rahul Gandhi saying, Melanie said, I have not reached there yet.
39:44How would you interpret that?
39:46First of all, Gaurav, you have gone on with this.
39:48I mean, this is ridiculous.
39:49I have explained everything.
39:50You have gone on with an important debate in parliament to this.
39:53Then let's discuss Surpanaka, what happened in parliament.
39:56Let's discuss all that.
39:58Let's discuss Bilkis Banu.
39:59Let's discuss Gurmeet Ramahir.
40:01A convicted rapist.
40:02Yes, you are.
40:03Convicted rapist.
40:04Out on parole.
40:05How many debates have you done on that?
40:07How do we allow a convicted rapist to enjoy time out?
40:11And you know what?
40:12Let me tell you how it happens.
40:13The district magistrate has to sign.
40:15After that, it goes to the government of Haryana.
40:18If they say, no, he cannot be released, then you cannot.
40:22How is Asa Ram Bapu once released on bail?
40:25He gets bailed.
40:26Then he goes to UP.
40:28And Yogi Adityanath is bending towards him.
40:31I mean, he's a convicted rapist.
40:33What is the message given to youngsters in this country?
40:37Let us see.
40:37That is what I have to tell you.
40:39These are examples.
40:40Fair enough.
40:41Katwa.
40:42Hatres.
40:43This is not in the Congress.
40:44Nirbaya.
40:44We took action.
40:46We got in the Criminal Amendment Act.
40:48We got in Nirbaya Act.
40:50And like I said, Sushil Kumar Shinde explained in Parliament what happened.
40:55We have admitted our guilt.
40:57Now, what is this?
40:57You've made your point.
40:59It's a government with support.
41:00Rapist continues with…
41:02I am not…
41:03I have just asked you, how would you interpret Rahul Gandhi saying,
41:06I have not reached there yet.
41:08Remember Rahul Gandhi when he talks of Huddplomacy.
41:10Rahul Gandhi had Hudd Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Parliament.
41:14Okay.
41:15Sanju Verma.
41:16Closing comments now.
41:17Sanju Verma.
41:18Yes.
41:19Gaurav, I want to take you back to 2022.
41:23There was a young 14-year-old minor Dalit girl who was a special child.
41:29She had a disability.
41:31She was gang-rapped in Alwar.
41:33This made headlines.
41:34Your channel also covered it.
41:36Sonia Gandhi and Priyanka Vadra were celebrating a few hundred kilometers from Alwar in Ranthambore.
41:42Sonia Gandhi's birthday.
41:44Okay.
41:44And do you know what Ashok Gaylord said?
41:46And do you know what Ashok Gaylord said?
41:58was beaten black and blue by Priyanka Wadra's personal secretary.
42:06Alvar gang rape honے کے بعد, Rahul Gandhi کے موں میں دہی چم گیا.
42:11Alvar gang rape honے کے بعد, Sonia Gandhi was merrily celebrating her birthday.
42:15Alvar gang rape کے بعد, Priyanka Wadra consumed favey call.
42:19So Shama Bahamad, stop your selective outrage.
42:22And my last point, there is a 76-year-old former Congress MLA.
42:27Say, Mewa Ram Jain, he's an accused under Pauksog.
42:31His case is still on trial for raping 7-year-old and 9-year-old young girls.
42:36And Mewa Ram Jain been inducted back into the Congress party by Rahul Gandhi.
42:41Why has Mewa Ram Jain been inducted back into the Congress party?
42:46And that's the point Ashutosh is repeatedly raising.
42:49How do you elevate the level instead of keep everyone going down that very slippery road?
42:56In fact, there's more breaking news coming in.
42:58We are getting a reaction of the Bharatiya Janata party.
43:00The BJP has stepped up its attack on Rahul Gandhi after this Mavlankar Hall National Convention.
43:08Union Minister Gajendra Singh Shikhawat has said,
43:11despite having three generations of prime ministers in his family,
43:14Rahul Gandhi knows he may never occupy that post.
43:20Gajendra Singh Shikhawat accused Rahul Gandhi of showing how desperate he is as age catches up,
43:27telling him to finally accept the reality.
43:30Union Minister Prehla Joshi has joined in.
43:33He said running the country requires mature leadership and not what he has described as amateur dramatics.
43:43Joshi said, Phelat Joshi said,
43:45calling an elected government jokers and clowns was an insult not only to Prime Minister,
43:49but also to the millions of voters who backed Narendra Modi.
43:53The BJP invoked Rahul Gandhi's electoral record,
43:57accusing him of arrogance,
43:59saying repeated electoral defeats were the reason his politics has been rejected by the people.
44:05Clearly, this will continue to escalate.
44:09I want to thank all our guests as we slip into a break.
44:11I want you to listen in to Rahul Gandhi,
44:14that sequence that happened with Sandeep Deekshit,
44:16and you decide who you think is right.
44:19Take a look.
44:22Foreign policy is this.
44:35I don't know who has put it, where did it go from.
44:40Why?
44:42Foreign policy means,
44:44imagine the ignorance of foreign policy.
44:48I can ask one thing.
44:55I have not reached there yet.
44:59Shifting focus to the other big story we're tracking here on India.
45:03First, intelligence agencies in Nepal have flagged the involvement of Pakistan's notorious counterintelligence agency,
45:10the ISI, in the recent communal riots and violence that took place in Nepal in the Sunsari Belt.
45:17Now, a preliminary report submitted by Nepal's National Investigation Department, the NID,
45:24to Nepal's home ministry,
45:26talks of the involvement of Pakistan's ISI in fueling communal tensions
45:31and fanning a communal riot that erupted on the night of July 26 in Nepal,
45:37just kilometers from the Indian border.
45:39According to the report, Nepal's intelligence assessment has flagged the involvement of Mohamed Ilyas Ghuman,
45:47a Pakistani-origin cleric who is based in Turkey,
45:50who reportedly stayed at a mosque in Sunsari just days before the violence.
45:55Now, this NID report of Nepal government identifies Mohamed Ghuman as the ISI operative
46:02and examines his reported links with banned terrorist organizations like Harkatul Vijayideen and Harkatul Ansar and Hizbul Mujahideen.
46:10Ghuman was not alone.
46:12Mufti Abu Bakar Kazmi, the imam of Kathmandu's Jama Masjid, was reportedly accompanying him.
46:18Mohamed Ilyas Ghuman and Mufti Abu Bakar, accompanied by other maulanas and clerics,
46:23including some from Bangladesh,
46:25reportedly traveled across the sensitive belt that borders both Bihar and Uttar Pradesh.
46:32Intelligence agencies have reportedly recommended a thorough investigation into their stay
46:37and the actions around certain mosques and madarsas,
46:42apparently more than 3,000 of them,
46:44and the alleged radicalization of people.
46:48Further, nine Bangladeshi clerics reportedly entered Nepal before this violence.
46:54They traveled from Dhaka to Kuala Lumpur on a tourist visa and then entered Nepal.
47:01This is a very, very furrisome report of the involvement of Pakistan's ISI in Nepal's border belt.
47:08I want to quickly bring in Yashro Vardhan Azad, the former Special Director of India's Intelligence Bureau.
47:14Left-N-General Shaukeen Chahan is former Director General of Assam Rifles.
47:17He was also our defense attache in Nepal.
47:21And Sandeep Unnithan joining me.
47:23Gentlemen, sorry for coming late.
47:25General, you've served in Nepal.
47:27You were our defense attache there.
47:29You speak the language.
47:31You're reading of Nepal's intelligence and investigation inputs.
47:36Gaurab, thank you for calling me on the show.
47:39You know, Sunsari is an important district.
47:41It's important because geography gives such an operation potential strategic leverage.
47:47It is an open, highly connected borderland.
47:50It links Nepal's Therai with its hill countries.
47:54It sits in the wider economic and social ecosystem of eastern Nepal and northern India.
48:00In actual reality, it also affects our Sriniguri corridor.
48:03But what I want to emphasize is we should not just turn geography into a suspicion of ordinary people.
48:09The people who cross India's and Nepal's border are not just a problem.
48:14The open border is not the problem.
48:17The communities living on both sides are not the problem.
48:19It is the involvement of the ISI that's a problem.
48:24It's the involvement of the network that's a problem.
48:26And these are the networks and hostile networks that we must get after and we must break before they cause
48:33greater harm to us.
48:35But what is important is, Gaurab, is that we need with Nepal better intelligence sharing.
48:41We need better financial tracking.
48:43We need better coordination and monitoring of coordinated disinformation.
48:48We need better police intelligence coordination.
48:51And above all, early intervention because a local dispute becomes a communal conflict fanned by, of course, the Pakistan's ISI.
49:00That's a very important point you raise, sir.
49:03Let me bring in Yashavardhan Azad for more on this, sir.
49:07This sensitive Bihar-Uttar Pradesh-Nepal border belt, the Tarai region.
49:13You know, clearly there are civilizational links.
49:17But what is your reading of this rapid rise of madrasas and mosques coming up in this region?
49:23Reports seem to indicate.
49:24And these are Nepalese intelligence and investigation reports with funds that are coming in from Pakistan, Turkey and other countries
49:30in West Asia.
49:32Well, this is nothing new because even before Nepal became a democracy in 2008, there were a lot of studies
49:41which are projected.
49:42And I remember I was part of it in which we said that it's expected to lead to migration and
49:48the border area becoming, you know, populated by mosques and madrasas.
49:53Yes. And there are these mosques and madrasas and some of them are being exploited by the Wahhabis who are
50:00coming here.
50:01Earlier on, you would have seen in UP also the Wahhabis coming here and preaching.
50:05I would treat it more as a very serious communal problem.
50:10And because it's a communal problem, it is very, very sensitive for our border because that borders Araria and Supol
50:18in Bihar, as you said, Bihar State.
50:20And Araria is heavily, it's a minority population.
50:25There are issues over there.
50:27And whenever we have heavy deployment also in many a times on sensitive areas, number one.
50:33Number two, that ISI will be involved in Pakistan is obviously there.
50:40We have many, many, but that ISI will create trouble over there.
50:46Or is it just an extension of proselytization, which they keep doing because they would like to use Nepal for
50:55their activities?
50:56And they have in the past.
50:59And if it's increasing, Sandeep, it's a cause for grave concern.
51:02Look at the number of foreign clerics who are suddenly visiting and the surreptitious route that they're taking.
51:08So, from Dhaka to Kuala Lumpur and then to Kathmandu and then coming down to this belt, that should have
51:14multiple alarm bells ringing.
51:16Absolutely, Gaurav.
51:17And, you know, Nepal has always been a hotbed for the ISI.
51:21It's one of the places where the ISI is most active, you know, other than Bangladesh.
51:26And we've seen that with the IC814 hijacking.
51:28The hijackers boarded the aircraft in Kathmandu.
51:31Five of them, they were facilitated by the Pakistan embassy there.
51:34And the Pakistan embassy over there is normally, it's outside.
51:38It's got more employees.
51:40It's got about a dozen people.
51:41It's got a very large ISI station over there.
51:44And this is exactly why they are there.
51:45And over the decades, we've seen arms, gun running, RBX, drugs, and the involvement of Nepali politicians who have been
51:54working on behalf of the ISI.
51:56So that's been a battleground between the Indian intelligence agencies and the ISI.
52:00But this new, you know, communal unrest, Gaurav has to be seen in the light of Asim Munir's plans for
52:07a hard state, for the Mecca defense agreement.
52:11He's looking at a larger role for the ISI.
52:14You know, the ISI has always been active in Nepal.
52:17But you have to see it in the context of what's going on right now in the neighborhood.
52:20The ISI is, you know, moving into Bangladesh.
52:22It's in the northeast as well.
52:23And now Nepal.
52:25It's reviving all connects.
52:26It's reviving all, you know, hunting grounds for the ISI.
52:31And, you know, in a bit of India.
52:31And general, the fact that this report comes from within Nepal.
52:35This isn't an Indian intelligence report.
52:37This isn't an Indian assessment.
52:39The fact that you have an open border with Nepal, you know, and the fact that you have, I think,
52:45some 1,700 odd kilometers of open border, around 3,000 illegal madrasas and mosques coming up in this belt,
52:53funds from overseas coming in.
52:54ISI may also use hostile elements in Nepal to count, to, you know, bleed India, fearing that there could be
53:01an Operation Sindhur.
53:02How can India leverage, you know, our civilizational association with Nepal to checkmate all these ISI elements?
53:11Okay, Gaurav.
53:12So, I want to make a couple of points.
53:15The first issue is that Nepal has given us this evidence of the ISI connection.
53:20That means it's extremely positive.
53:22We've spent, as Yashaw Ardhan said, even when I was a DA in Nepal, the fact that there was a
53:31growth of madrasas during 2004, 2005, 2006 was not an unknown factor.
53:37It was known.
53:38The second fact was that at that time, many in the Nepalese government were not willing to listen to us.
53:45The fact that Nepal has said it, India should and must take this extremely seriously.
53:49And the second aspect is we must work with Nepal to dismantle this network.
53:56The idea is that ultimately good intelligence is not about confirming what we already suspect.
54:02Good intelligence is about discovering what actually is happening.
54:06And my greatest concern is not whether Pakistan has managed to create one communal disturbance in Sunsari.
54:12That's not just the most important aspect.
54:15My concern is, are we seeing an emergence of a new model of warfare in which local grievances, social media,
54:23identity politics, criminal network, and foreign intelligence are fused together to destabilize a friendly neighbor?
54:30If that is happening, that Sunsari is not merely a Nepalese law and order issue.
54:35It's about where, it's about warning about the changing nature of security in India's neighborhood.
54:41And the one that keeps on.
54:42That's a very important point.
54:44And New Delhi must take very seriously.
54:47You know, this is a debate we'll have at a much.
54:50You're absolutely right, sir.
54:52I'm so sorry I've run out of time on this part of India.
54:54First, I want to thank our guests.
54:56But do keep in mind, this isn't just another law and order situation in Sunsari, Nepal.
55:01It's a new template that Asim Munir is trying at another border, an open border with India.
55:08He fears an Operation Sindhu 2.0.
55:11So terrorists may not come from Pakistan directly this time.
55:14This could be the other route.
55:15They've tried it before.
55:17They may try it again.
55:18And India needs to be very, very alert.
55:21Being forewarned is being forearmed.
55:23That is all I have for you on India First this evening.
55:26Many thanks for watching.
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