- 6 months ago
This edition of 'To The Point' examines the disruption in Parliament that led to the cancellation of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's scheduled address.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary. Lots went down where Parliament was concerned. In fact, not much went down because of all that went down in Parliament. The Prime Minister was to speak at 5pm. That didn't quite happen. A face-off between the Treasury benches and the opposition MPs resulted in an adjournment of both houses. We're going to get down to that, but first up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:30No PM Modi speech in Lok Sabha amidst ruckus. Women opposition MPs get out. Prime Minister's chair Rahul and Priyanka Hull scared attack at Prime Minister. BJP alleges bid to attack PM inside Parliament.
00:48It's a book versus book in Parliament after Rahul Gandhi doubles down on his attack based on the memoirs of former Army Chief Naraone. BJP's Nishikan Dube counters with several books citing Congress scandals from Nehru to Bow Falls.
01:05Sardar versus Gaddar. Jibes fly thick and fast. Rahul's traitor jibe at BJP MP Bittu. BJP MP Bittu. Deshka Dushman retort. BJP counters with Sikh leaders' press conference.
01:22Supreme Court issues notice to election commission on Mamata's anti-SIR plea.
01:32SC says poll panel must file reply on Monday. Bengal government to give list of officials and poll duty. Supreme Court notice also to Bengal poll panel.
01:41MAITI leader YUMNAM KAMCHAN Singh takes oath as Manipur chief minister. Two deputy CMs also sworn in.
01:52Manipur BJP MLA cookie leader Neemcha Khipeg and senior NPP leader Lossi Dikho are new deputy CMs.
02:01All right, let's quickly get our viewers up to speed on what went down in Parliament.
02:12The Prime Minister today was supposed to speak where the budget session is concerned.
02:16His speech was at 5 p.m., but that speech didn't happen, primarily because the Parliament was adjourned amidst a massive ruckus, chaos,
02:26and a face-off between the Treasury benches and the opposition MPs.
02:30And in midst of all of this, fair bits happened outside the Parliament as well.
02:33You had Ramneet Singh Bittu and the leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi, getting into a verbal duel.
02:41Mind you, Ramneet Singh Bittu is from the Congress who went and switched to the BJP.
02:56Another day, another disruption, another washout.
03:05Prime Minister Narendra Modi was scheduled to address the Lok Sabha on Wednesday evening.
03:10The House was first adjourned till 5 p.m.
03:13The Prime Minister was expected to speak when proceedings resumed.
03:16But barely a minute after the House reconvened, it was adjourned for the day.
03:24No statement, no address, only chaos.
03:28The reason was relentless disruptions that brought the House to a standstill.
03:33Opposition MPs from the Congress, Trinamul Congress and the Samajwadi Party entered the House armed with posters and slogans.
03:41As soon as the chair took position, members rushed into the well.
03:45The shouting intensified.
03:48Posters stayed aloft.
03:50The inevitable followed.
03:51The House was adjourned.
03:53The chaos followed a clear warning.
04:13When questioned if the House will be allowed to function, Priyanka Gandhi said,
04:17देखे क्या होता है.
04:28Hours earlier, a personal flashpoint erupted at Parliament's Makar Dwar.
04:33Union Minister Ravneet Singh Bittu and the Leader of Opposition Rahul Kandhi clashed publicly.
04:38Bittu struck back Sharpie, branding Rahul Kandhi and protesting MPs as देश के दुश्मर.
04:53The remarks sparked immediate outrage, drawing sharp reactions from Sikh leaders across the political spectrum.
05:18Delhi Minister Manjinder Singh Sirsa demanded action against Rahul Kandhi.
05:23Soon, the war of words spilled back into the House.
05:26A day after Rahul Kandhi cited former Army Chief General M. M. Naram Nez Memoir in Parliament,
05:35the BJP responded with books of its own.
05:37The BJP MP Nishikand Dubey walked into the House holding books detailing alleged Congress scams, including Bofos.
05:49The move triggered loud protest from the opposition.
05:53Dubey was denied permission by the chair, but he went on.
06:07Papers were torn.
06:09Sheets were flung across the House.
06:12Torn pages flew back amid rising disorder.
06:15The President said that the House is a great book.
06:23The LOP has a great book, which is a great book.
06:28It's a great book.
06:29Amazon has a great book.
06:32You don't have to quote it.
06:34You are saying that this is a great book.
06:36So, the Lord is sitting here and showing these six books.
06:41You don't say anything.
06:43So, while the nation looks to Parliament for answers on the budget, jobs and inflation,
06:52the House remains trapped in confrontation.
06:55Here is a traitor walking right by.
06:58Traitor versus patriot.
07:01Book versus book.
07:03Slogan versus slogan.
07:05A politics, once again, overwhelms governance.
07:09Bureau Report, India Today.
07:13All right, joining me this evening, Rajat Sethi, political analyst,
07:20Ashutosh, political analyst, Lavanya Balal Jain, spokesperson of the Congress Party,
07:26as well as Sanju Verma, national spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party.
07:29We'll also be joined very soon by one of the suspended MPs, Amrinder Singh, Raja Varun,
07:35who has a thing or two where to say, especially on what went down between the verbal duel of Rahul Gandhi
07:43and Mr. Bittu.
07:45But let's begin, Sanju Verma, to pull you into this conversation.
07:49The opposition charge is very clear.
07:51There's absolute trust deficit between the Treasury benches and the Congress and the opposition MPs, rather.
07:57And the result of what we see is constant disruption and adjournments.
08:02The opposition has to behave with a certain modicum of maturity, which is completely missing in Rahul Gandhi.
08:16This is a man for whom the word decorum is alien.
08:21And I just want to say a couple of things.
08:23Rahul Gandhi over the years wanted discussion in the parliament on inflation, on unemployment, on the Raham Mandir, on Texas, on Galwan, on Doslam.
08:34And every time the government of the day was willing to have a discussion, Rahul Gandhi went MIA.
08:40Do you remember, ahead of Lok Sabha 2024, Gaurav Gogai moved the north of the country against Modi Gandhi?
08:50And when Prime Minister, who was going to discuss Modi, said that Rahul Gandhi was MIA again.
08:58So the important point I'm making is that Rahul Gandhi is somebody in truth and truth politics.
09:05That's point number one.
09:07Point number two, more importantly.
09:10Am I able to speak?
09:11Because...
09:15Hello?
09:16Sanjay Varma, we are having a bit of a problem with your audio.
09:19We are going to try and reconnect your audio.
09:21There is a problem with your audio.
09:22We are going to try and reconnect that.
09:23Ashutosh, would you want to come in?
09:24Because this is a debate that happens once too many times as well.
09:28You know, two aspects to it.
09:29Of course, what happened inside parliament, due to which we do not have a Prime Minister's speech this evening.
09:34Second, is what happened outside with the exchange between Rahul Gandhi and Mr. Abneet Singh Bittu, which has blown up into a completely different story.
09:43I think the story of the day is that the Prime Minister didn't come to the parliament and he did not address the parliament on the presidential address.
09:52This is something which is unprecedented.
09:54I never heard something like this.
09:55And this is a bizarre situation because the leader opposition is not allowed to speak.
09:59He is not allowed to speak.
10:00And the Prime Minister is not giving his customary address to the parliament.
10:05I had never heard something like this.
10:07That's a fundamental question.
10:09Rest are only, these are the tidbits in the parliament, that's all.
10:12The issue, the second issue is Rahul Gandhi was not allowed to speak, quote from the book.
10:18But another member of the parliament from the BJP was allowed to quote from the books and show those books.
10:25What is the role of a speaker here?
10:28That is also need to be questioned.
10:30What was the chair doing at that point of time?
10:32Are there two rules in the parliament?
10:33One rule for the leader opposition and another rule for the parliament, for the government.
10:38The third point is, I think that's far more serious that whether the House was misled by the senior cabinet ministers.
10:47Why I'm saying so?
10:48Because the book which was told to the parliament that unpublished, that book was published.
10:54And then the book was withdrawn.
10:57Now the book was published, that's something which is on record.
11:01And I tweeted two days back, that the book was available on the online shelf of Amazon.
11:08And the date was also mentioned when the book was published.
11:11And the price and everything was there.
11:13Now, in the parliament it was said the book does not exist, is not published, so he can't quote.
11:19Now the issue is, the book is published and the book is available.
11:23The book was available with Rahul Gandhi at least.
11:25And I know a few of my friends who also have this book.
11:29Now the third point is, if Rahul Gandhi cannot speak anything which is not related to the presidential address,
11:37how come the BJP MPO is allowed to speak not related to the presidential address?
11:44So, the chair has to answer and the house has to deliberate whether it was misled.
11:51Okay.
11:52Ashutosh, your time is up.
11:53Fair point there.
11:54Rajat Sethi, would you want to come in?
11:58Because multiple charges that are flying thick and fast.
12:01Sanju Verma would have us believe that the prime minister or lots of treasury benches, MPs have come out and said that there was a possible conspiracy to attack the prime minister.
12:12That is why he didn't come in.
12:13You know, that's a little, you know, a bit much, I would think, Rajat.
12:18See, I will not go into speculations, Preeti ji, here.
12:22But let me just point out the kind of issues and sensationalization that Ashutosh was just doing.
12:27A, I am a published author.
12:29I know even before the book is out in the market, the pre-sales of it goes live on Amazon.
12:35So, let's not fool ourselves that, and also, by the way, certain copies are given to a lot of reviewers to review it in advance or provide comments in advance.
12:44Certain copies were given, but there is a government process.
12:47And this government process of vetting these books, especially after serving, you know, senior leadership of the defense and the other critical positions retire, they need to seek permissions.
13:01This seeking permission business has been going on.
13:03This is how the country has been all these years, but nobody pointed this out.
13:08So, first of all, there is no legal copy of this book available.
13:11Therefore, there is no apple-to-apple comparison between what the Treasury benches did on this.
13:16Again, I agree that if tabling a book is problematic, then all books should not be tabled into the floor of the house that way without seeking adequate rules.
13:27Whether those rules were properly, you know, invoked or not, that I am not aware of.
13:31So, I would refrain from commenting.
13:33But my last point is that where is the sensationalization of the issue coming from?
13:37Prime Minister has been amply clear that there are broad political lines that, you know, the political leadership draws.
13:44How do you achieve to those goals as being left to the defense leadership who is on the ground?
13:49You see, he has said even in public domain several times, so I don't see where is this sudden knowledge descending upon Mr. Rahul Gandhi that he is trying to sensationalize and say that no, no, no, all the decision has been given away straight away to a military or a NAMI leadership.
14:03That is my fundamental problem that this sensationalization is deliberate, trying to mislead the country.
14:09If you are quoting from the book, quote the entire book then.
14:12The book also says that not a square inch of land was given to China.
14:16Would Rahul Gandhi come out and say and table and thank the current government that the leadership of this government ensure that not a square inch of land was given to China?
14:21Okay, fair point. Rajat, your two minutes are over. I will come back to you. You know, you are…
14:27Right, okay, Rajat, your time is up. I am going to come right back to you. You are right at a level, yes.
14:31You know, you have had the former army chief Mr. Naravne say that, you know, that not an inch was given.
14:38But the fact is also, Rajat, that if former army chiefs are allowed to write books post Kargil, why not, you know, former army chief Naravne?
14:47Why wasn't he, his book be published? Why was it taken back? Lots of questions on that account where just the book is concerned.
14:53But Sanju Verma, who didn't complete her thoughts the first time around, go ahead Sanju Verma, make your point.
15:00Thank you, Preeti. You know, I just want to add to what Rajat said.
15:05Let everybody on your show know one thing. There is something called Rule 21, Section 63 of the Armed Forces Act of 1954.
15:15Which categorically gives the sitting government of the day, in this case the Modi government, the prerogative via the Ministry of Defence to either approve or disapprove a book published by a former army chief from being published.
15:31This is not the first time it is happening, Preeti. Let's also get one thing very clear.
15:35The Congress is sitting and waxing eloquent about how an army chief is being undermined.
15:40Let's not forget Sam Manak-Shaw. Fieldmaster Sam Manak-Shaw retired in 1973. He got his pension after 34 long years in 2007, just one year before his death in 2008.
15:55Why? His pension was withheld by Congress governments for 34 years because he told Indira Gandhi, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto made a monkey out of you.
16:04It was for something as basic as that. So I don't think the BJP needs lessons in propriety from the Congress, which has completely, you know,
16:14You know, the freedom of speech has been pushed by Congress to the freedom of speech.
16:19And let me also say one more thing to you. There's a letter written by Pandit Nehru in public domain in 1952, where he calls the then army chief K.M. Kariappa as somebody who's gone off track and is unfit both mentally and otherwise.
16:37Imagine, a sitting prime minister calling a sitting army chief in 1952 as mentally unstable. And I've never seen the Dharbari ecosystem, you know, say anything but applaud Nehru for all his shenanigans.
16:51And my final point is this. After the horrific 26-11 Mumbai terror attack, the then IAF chief Homi major, Fali Homi major wanted to avenge and attack Pakistan when the proxy government, Sonia Gandhi said nothing to it.
17:05This is how they deter the armed forces as their own backyard accolades. And they have the audacity now to lecture the Modi government.
17:13It's not hypocrisy.
17:15All right. I want to bring in Lavanya Balal into this conversation. Lavanya, the fact is there's something that happened inside which we've debated the sheer fact that the kind of chaos that erupted in parliament resulting in adjournment now, which somewhere down the line did not allow the prime minister to speak.
17:37There's something that happened outside. And many today are looking at the language used by Rahul Gandhi for a former colleague. He might have crossed over to the BJP, but to call somebody traitor, do you think that's all right?
17:49Good evening, Preeti. It's extremely disheartening as Indian citizens to watch the prime minister not address the parliament. He shied away from addressing the parliament and his refusal to answer the multiple questions that I've raised in the past few weeks is extremely disheartening.
18:07The multiple issues being one, Mr. Harbi Puri being in touch with pedophile, Mr. Epstein, the names being mentioned of our prime minister when it goes to, you know, in Epstein files, and also the refusal of the speaker to allow Mr. Rahul Gandhi to speak.
18:27And they claim, you know, the books shouldn't be presented or it shouldn't be read out from the book, but the same rules does not apply for the BJP.
18:36There were multiple issues that prime minister could have addressed and clarified for the nation. It was his duty to do that because ultimately he leads the nation and the Galvan issue as well.
18:48He should have given a clarity today to the nation and cleared it once for all. He refused to do all of that by walking away and not addressing the nation at 5pm as he should have.
18:57Now, when you are talking about the propriety of the language that is being used, it is very, very mild to call someone a traitor because of course he is a traitor to a cause of the Congress party.
19:08But what I see is the nation or a section of the nation is not talking about Congress.
19:15Mr. Modi, as a prime minister, calling Mr. Manmohan Singh as the only man who knows how to shower, wearing a raincoat, that was not hurtful.
19:25But this revoked call trait is hurtful. A word like Jarsika or Bachara is not hurtful or 50 crore girlfriend is not hurtful.
19:34But a traitor is hurtful today. Double standards. But all we would like to say today is extremely disheartening the way Mr. Modi is leading the nation.
19:43It is not good administrative skills. It's extremely disappointing and the nation expects much better from him.
19:50All right. Thank you, Riti.
19:57Your time is up. I just want to bring in, you know, one final comment with all four of our panelists this evening.
20:03Because, Ashutosh, how long is this going to continue?
20:06One thing I reckon is now clear that the trust deficit is so much between the Treasury benches and the opposition leaders
20:12that it's also now reflecting not inside but outside the Parliament in the kind of language and the kind of exchange that we've seen.
20:18What is the point now? Every day the kind of money that is wasted in terms of business being done in Parliament.
20:25See, Priti, I think a bizarre statement has been made on the channel that if one has to quote, then one has to quote the entire book.
20:34That means Rahul Gandhi should have quoted all 448 books, almost 101,50,000 words.
20:41Have you heard something like this? I haven't heard something like this ever.
20:45And I have quoted at least more than 500 books in my different books.
20:50So that's a bizarre argument.
20:52Second is not an inch was given. Yes.
20:56Why? Because of the valor of the army, not because of the decision taken by the political leadership.
21:01And that's the whole question.
21:03Why the political leader was absconding within court, 8.15 to 10.30, with an express earlier order that army is not supposed to fire on the Chinese tanks.
21:17Now, for the two hours, 15 minutes, the frenetic calls were made from the Northern Command to the army chief.
21:26And the army chief was making frenetic calls to the finance minister, to the foreign minister, to the defense minister, to the national security as well, to the CDS and no response.
21:36But within that two, two, two hour, 15 minutes is a hell lot of time in the war during the war situation.
21:43Why the prime minister was not available.
21:45And then you are saying,
21:47He would have said the same thing.
21:52The same instruction could have gone and said to 816.
21:55You do whatever you feel like.
21:57So it's a question of the decision making issue.
22:00And don't forget that the parliament has discussed China war when the war was on.
22:07Now, about abstain file.
22:10What?
22:11Why a proud country like ours and the government needed a pedophile, convicted pedophile, to bargain for India, lobby for India?
22:24Is it not shameful?
22:26If this is not shameful, then what is shameful, I do not know.
22:29Okay.
22:32All right, Sanju, one more two minutes.
22:35I want to quickly, you know, take final comments.
22:38Two minutes.
22:39You know, Preeti, first and foremost, I want to completely debunk the absolute gibberish by the paid political analyst on your show, Ashutosh.
22:48Who should be feeling...
22:49Again, again, political, personal comments not allowed.
22:54Personal comments not allowed.
22:56Can I just...
22:57Let's refrain from personal comments.
22:59No personal comments.
23:00One second.
23:01Let's refrain from personal comments and let's also refrain from interjecting.
23:03I will not let her speak.
23:04I agree.
23:05I agree.
23:06I agree.
23:07Okay.
23:08Can we freeze...
23:09Can we freeze her time?
23:10Can we freeze her time?
23:11Yes.
23:12You'll get as much time as you had asked or you know, which is to be given to all panelists.
23:17But Sanju Verma, no personal comments were made on you.
23:20Please avoid doing so.
23:21Nobody likes it.
23:22I'm sure you don't like it as well.
23:24Let's just keep it there.
23:25Right?
23:26Let's keep it civil.
23:27Go ahead.
23:28Make your point.
23:29Okay, Preeti.
23:30But please give me 30 seconds extra.
23:31I will not make personal comments.
23:33But I will not take it lying down.
23:35When a political analyst appeared one at that, Preeti sinks and undermines the Prime Minister.
23:41He's your Prime Minister.
23:42He's my Prime Minister.
23:43He's Lavanya Balal's Prime Minister.
23:45He's Ashutosh Gupta's Prime Minister.
23:47He's not just the BJP's Prime Minister.
23:49But let me come to the moot point.
23:51The moot point, Preeti, is this.
23:53Nehru gave away 38,000 square kilometers of aksai chin on a golden platter to the Chinese.
24:00And the Dharbadi said,
24:01Vajiva.
24:02Nehru gave away large parts of Tia Panga and Chhabji Valley to the Chinese.
24:06Dharbadi said, Vajiva.
24:08Nehru gave away an extra territorial rights in Tibet in 1954.
24:14The Dharbadi said, Vajiva.
24:16Nehru gave away the Haji Peer path and the Dharbadi said, Vajiva.
24:21And let me say one more thing.
24:22In 1974, without taking approval of the Parliament,
24:27Indira Gandhi gave away Kacchathivu Islands to Sri Lanka saying,
24:30it's a broken piece of land where only boulders and stones grow.
24:35So why the hell do we need to keep it with us?
24:38But most importantly,
24:40most importantly, Preeti, I want to say one thing.
24:42There is something called Natwar Singh's book, One Life is Not Enough, where he talks about the shenanigans of Indira Gandhi with respect to Operation Blue Star.
24:54The entire Dharbadi ecosystem never wanted that book to hit the stands.
24:58Then there are the Mitrokin archives, which talk about how Indira Gandhi was the KGB asset.
25:04The Dharbadi don't want us to talk about that.
25:07Then, you know, former Prime Minister Narsimha Rao has written a book called The Insider,
25:12where he talks about the disadvantages of being a professional in a party which is led by Dharbadi like Indira and Nehru.
25:21They did not want The Insider to be published.
25:23And let us not forget, you know, M.O. Mathai's book, where he's spoken at length about his relationship with Indira Gandhi.
25:30Dharbadi never wanted that book to be published.
25:33And then there is a book, The Unseen Indira Gandhi by K.P. Mapu, where he talks about Indira Gandhi's psychological...
25:40Ma'am, your time is up. Your time is up. I'm going to cut across.
25:44I am going to cut across to Rajat Sethi and Labania Balal, but please allow me.
25:47I just want to go to Amrinder Singh Raja Waring, who is one of the suspended MPs for the rest of the budget session.
25:55Mr. Waring, thank you for taking the time out and joining us.
25:58You know, I just want you to reflect, Mr. Waring, on what really happened today outside Parliament.
26:03Now, it is something that has been spoken of in Punjab, which has become a flashpoint where, you know, Sikhism is concerned, where you have a number of leaders from the BJP who are Sikh coming out and saying that today Rahul Gandhi, by calling Mr. Bittu a traitor, has insulted the community.
26:24Mr. Waring, can you hear me?
26:38Tell me, tell me, tell me. Can you, can you, can you repeat it again? What are you saying? I thought that you were asking somebody else.
26:45Yes. My question, question, Waring Saab, is that today what happened outside Parliament, the exchange between Rahul Gandhi and Mr. Bittu has now sparked massive debate in Punjab where the BJP says you had Rahul Gandhi who insulted Sikhs by calling Mr. Bittu a traitor.
27:07Mr. Bittu saying something to Mr. Bittu. Hawken, this is an insult of the Sikhs. You just tell me. He has not said anything to the Sikhs. He said, Bittu, hello, my friend, traitor.
27:22He has not said anything to Sikhs. And do you know, have you heard the, what Bittu says? Bittu says, agar maine aaj pagadi pehni hai, there is a, I can send you that recording of his recording while Bharat Yodo yatra in Lodiana, Punjab.
27:42He is saying this pagadi just because of Rahul Gandhi. He suggests me to wear the turban. You are a Sikh, just wear the turban. Rahul Gandhi have a respect about Sikhs and everybody.
27:57But he only said that, hello, my friend, nothing to Sikhs. He has a high respect for Sikhs. Hawken, a person feels that something he is saying to Bittu and some other leader of this BJP who belong to this Sikh and they are saying that this is the insult of one Sikh.
28:27But Varing sahab, what was the need to use the word traitor? You know, do you think that could have been avoided?
28:32No, no, no. Yesterday, yesterday, after the suspension, we are doing the peaceful protest outside the parliament and Makardwar, while that Bittu is coming towards us, he was saying ki, bhai, Kargil se yudh jeet kar aay ho.
28:48In between, Rahul Gandhi says, hello, my friend, nothing more than that.
29:02So, this BJP and other leader from the BJP are saying this is the insult for the Sikhs.
29:14How can you compare this, both of the things, ki bhai, yeh sikhon ki toheen aur bhejti ki gayi hai Rahul Gandhi ne?
29:22Kaise?
29:24Varing sahab, do you see this become a flashpoint? You have elections in one year right now and every small thing you understand, you are a politician yourself, Varing sahab.
29:36Every small thing that is said can be, you know, blown out of proportion and used as political points.
29:42So, listen, what I believe that our Punjabi people, they understand what is the politics going on.
29:52So, people know that what kind of respect Rahul Gandhi have in his mind, in his heart about the Sikhs, about the religion.
30:02Everybody knows this.
30:04I think comment to Bittu, jo traitor hai, dhokha toh diya hai.
30:11And you can, you can see the comments while on your debate coming comments from social media and other parts of the country.
30:19They said ki haa, kisne banaya Bittu ko?
30:22Tien baar member of parliament Rahul Gandhi ne banaya.
30:26Youth Congress ka adeksh banaya.
30:28So, Varing sahab, you are saying because, you know, I remember at one point of time Ambika Soniji's seat, which he was to contest, went to Mr. Bittu only from the Congress.
30:43You are saying, your charge is that Rahul Gandhi has done, yes, so you are saying that Rahul Gandhi has done enough for Mr. Bittu.
30:51And what he said was not to attack a community, but a comment for Mr. Bittu because he has left the Congress.
30:58That is 100% right what Rahul Gandhi said this thing to him.
31:00Whole Punjab saying, everybody is saying that he is a gadaar.
31:05I don't want to use this word to be very honest.
31:08But not only me and not only Congress party is saying this.
31:13But Varing sahab, he is using this word.
31:16But Varing sahab, you have Mr. Bittu calling Rahul Gandhi desh ka gadaar.
31:24Oh, Rahul Gandhi is desh ka gadaar, you tell me.
31:30Rahul Gandhi ke parwar ke...
31:33No, I'm just quoting Mr. Bittu, sir.
31:35...logon is desh ke liye kurbaniya diyein.
31:37Jaan diyein.
31:38How is gadaar, you tell me that how he is gadaar.
31:41He is gadaar because he was earlier in the Congress party.
31:45Member of parliament from the Congress.
31:47Twice member of parliament.
31:49Then thrice member of parliament.
31:51And after that, he is doing this kind of things with Amit Shah ji and Modi ji.
31:57He is in the Congress party and meeting the BJP people.
32:03So, usko gadaar kethi.
32:05Yesterday, what Rahul Gandhi wants to say in the parliament...
32:10All right.
32:11Varing sahab, thank you for taking the time.
32:13Okay.
32:14Yeah.
32:15Okay.
32:16Okay.
32:17Thank you, Varing sahab.
32:18Thank you for taking the time out and explaining to us on what you think, you know, went where the parliament was concerned outside.
32:26Obsession with Korean culture isn't just trending online.
32:41It's now turning deadly.
32:43Three teenage sisters deeply influenced by Korean pop culture and denied access to their mobile phones allegedly took their own lives.
32:52Ghaziabad is reeling from this shocking tragedy.
32:57The sisters reportedly jumped from the ninth floor of a residential building early Wednesday.
33:03The incident happened around 2.30 a.m. in Bharat city, leaving neighbors terrified and a community in shock.
33:11The very spot where the bodies of the young girls were found, this is now completely cordoned off.
33:24And several questions remain on whether the parents did something to, in fact, offer help to the children.
33:30If there was addiction, was any sort of professional help sought.
33:33It is being said that the children were being prohibited by the parents to over indulge in online gaming activities.
33:41But was any professional help sought.
33:44The girl's father has claimed a Korean online game may have played a role.
33:49According to him, the game had 50 tasks, with the last one scheduled on Tuesday.
33:54He also claimed the middle daughter acted as the leader, giving commands and that the sisters had kept the game secret from everyone.
34:02One woman has had one mobile, and he was with the police.
34:04One where the police was.
34:05And three children played one game or separate?
34:07No, they played one game, but also played a video.
34:12On the YouTube channel, there was no one that was killed.
34:15There was no knowledge or police told you that the case was transferred.
34:20Yes, they told you that somebody was on the dark website, and they did it.
34:25They were able to do it.
34:27Police recovered a suicide note that provides insight into the girl's state of mind.
34:34It read,
34:35Please read everything in this diary.
34:38Everything written is true.
34:41I am really sorry, Papa.
34:43The note also had a scribbled crying face.
34:48Eyewitnesses say one sister tried to jump while the other two tried to stop her,
34:52but tragically, all three fell.
34:57When I called my ma'am, I was seen that there was a gap.
35:02I said, just wait.
35:03I am 100% sure that something is wrong.
35:06We have these children, they don't know.
35:07I thought it would be a family matter, a husband and wife.
35:10We assumed that no husband would be drunk,
35:14no balance would be a wife.
35:16We assumed that.
35:18When we went down, we realized that there were three girls.
35:21They were children.
35:23Contrary to father's claims,
35:25the police have clarified that no online game caused the deaths.
35:28There was no Korean love game.
35:30The diary shows the girls were influenced by Korean culture,
35:33K-pop, movies, music, short films and shows
35:37and were distressed because their mobile phones had been restricted.
35:41Since the pandemic,
35:42the girls had not attended school,
35:44reportedly due to weak academics and financial difficulties.
35:47Police also revealed the father had two marriages,
36:04one daughter from the first wife,
36:06two from the second,
36:07with the whole family living together.
36:09The bodies have been sent for post-mortem
36:12while police continue investigating family members,
36:15mobile phones and digital activity
36:17to understand the full circumstances
36:20behind this heartbreaking incident.
36:22The truth is still unfolding.
36:25Three teens are dead
36:26and police are looking for answers
36:28behind this tragic loss.
36:30With Sneha Mordani and Himanshu Mishra
36:32in Ghaziabad,
36:33Bureau Report, India Today.
36:40As shocking, as disconcerting,
36:42it is the truth.
36:43I'm joined right now
36:44by Aarti C. Rajaratnam,
36:47author and psychologist,
36:49Jitin Jain,
36:49cyber security expert.
36:51First though,
36:52I'd like to cut across to Dr. Kiran Bedi,
36:54former IPS officer,
36:55former lieutenant governor,
36:56Puducherry.
36:57Dr. Bedi,
36:58thank you for taking the time out
36:59and joining us.
37:00The details of this story
37:02are horrifying
37:04and gives you a small glimpse
37:07on what we really are,
37:09where we are standing
37:09when we look at teenage health.
37:13Read it in conjunction
37:14with what the economic survey says
37:16of limiting social media,
37:18a time where children are concerned,
37:20simpler devices,
37:22not getting them into gaming,
37:24all of that coming together.
37:26How do you read the situation?
37:27Well, obviously,
37:30it's a disjointed family,
37:32apparently so far.
37:34Also, the girls
37:35are living in a virtual world.
37:37They were not having
37:39basically a cohesive,
37:41warm home.
37:43I think they were living
37:44in a virtual world
37:45and obviously getting affected
37:47by whatever they were seeing,
37:48whether it's a Korean culture
37:50or Korean movies
37:51or whatever was Korean.
37:52and they were also off school.
37:56Off school.
37:57I think so.
37:57It's a disjointed family
37:59and totally appear
38:00to be addicted to their phones.
38:02So it's basically,
38:03look,
38:04this doesn't happen overnight.
38:05It's been a growth
38:06and as the father himself says,
38:08the girls never went back
38:09to school after COVID.
38:12Now,
38:12is that right?
38:13In fact,
38:14why would they,
38:15why were efforts
38:16not made by the parents
38:17to send them back to school?
38:18And so,
38:20therefore,
38:21it's a disjointed family,
38:24virtual world,
38:25which is not communicated.
38:26Parents are not
38:27visibly communicating
38:30with their children.
38:32All the children
38:33in this situation
38:35need,
38:36they do need
38:37controlled management.
38:39You can't deny them
38:41the access to the screen
38:44and manage it
38:45and you can communicate
38:46with the children.
38:47I think it's nothing
38:48but a parental failure.
38:50Certainly not school
38:51because they never
38:52would be going to school.
38:53They never went to school.
38:54They were not going to school
38:55for all the COVID
38:56was finished many years ago.
38:58So obviously,
38:58it's a clear case
38:59of parental failure
39:00and they're fully
39:02responsible for this.
39:07Ms. Raja Ratnam,
39:08do you reckon
39:09it's a one-off case
39:11parental failure
39:12like Dr. Bedi
39:13is suggesting
39:15or do you think
39:17it's more to do
39:18with the times
39:18that we live in
39:19and the kind of exposure
39:20young teenagers
39:21have to gaming
39:22and social media?
39:24Assuming it's a suicide
39:26because I know
39:27the investigations
39:27are still on.
39:28I'd like to set
39:29three things in context.
39:30It's very easy
39:31to blame certain people,
39:33etc.
39:33But we have to realize
39:34that technology
39:35has become much larger
39:36than it was anticipated
39:38to become
39:38even say 20 years back.
39:40Having said that,
39:42the second aspect
39:43of what I'd like
39:44to bring up here
39:45is at different ages,
39:47children learn
39:48through different tools.
39:49And in the teen years,
39:50and all three are teenagers,
39:52in the teen years,
39:53relationships,
39:54especially peer relationships,
39:55are extremely important.
39:56All of my lessons
39:57for life come
39:58because my identity
40:00shifts from family
40:01towards the peer group.
40:02Here, if you notice,
40:03apart from the three of them,
40:05they didn't seem
40:06to have any kind
40:07of connect
40:07with a peer group
40:08from what the
40:09basic details are.
40:11So having said that,
40:12there are a lot of things
40:13that, you know,
40:14the teenage brain
40:14at this point in time
40:15cannot, you know,
40:17it's driven by emotion.
40:19It does not access
40:20the problem-solving areas
40:22of the brain much easier.
40:24The risk-taking behaviors
40:25are much higher.
40:26Hormonal influences
40:27are very high.
40:28So there are so many things.
40:29So it's like the brain
40:30is going through
40:30the second brain revolution
40:31and that's a very,
40:33very tricky age.
40:34Having said this,
40:35screens are like toxins.
40:37Toxins kill you slowly.
40:39You don't understand
40:39that it's not like a poison
40:42where you know
40:42it's in your environment
40:43and it can kill you.
40:44It builds slowly.
40:46And specifically
40:47with this game,
40:48the basic data
40:49that I have
40:49is that, you know,
40:51the initial levels
40:51were very easy
40:52and as it went higher,
40:54the ask was very,
40:55very high
40:56and it led to the,
40:57you know,
40:57the death of the three girls.
40:59This is very typically
41:00how abusive relationships
41:02in real life
41:03also work.
41:04Initially,
41:04it's very easy.
41:05You think that
41:05this is a rosy picture
41:06the relationship
41:07will work
41:08and then once
41:09you're stuck
41:09in the relationship
41:10and you develop
41:10some kind of attachment,
41:12it starts becoming difficult.
41:13So that's really
41:14where this is.
41:15So I wouldn't put it
41:16on parental failure
41:17as much as I would
41:18put it on the fact
41:19that we have deprived
41:20the learning brain
41:21of the basic ecosystem
41:23that it requires
41:23to develop
41:24a healthy way
41:26or healthy,
41:27robust functioning.
41:28So when we have
41:29denied that,
41:30I think
41:30to just
41:31place the onus
41:33on K-pop,
41:34to place the onus
41:35on parents,
41:36on internet,
41:37etc.
41:37is not right.
41:38I think it's an entire ecosystem
41:39and we'll have to look at it
41:41as it has to be looked at.
41:42Well, thank you
41:47for the insights,
41:48Mr. Rajaratnam.
41:49Mr. Jain,
41:50you know,
41:50to bring you in
41:51because there are a lot
41:51of parents out there
41:53whose kids are into gaming
41:54and especially
41:55where teenage kids
41:55are concerned today,
41:57most teenage kids
41:57are into gaming.
41:59What is it
42:00in terms of safeguards,
42:01in terms of boundaries
42:02that parents
42:03now need to build
42:04because this case
42:05might be a one-off
42:06but it is
42:07deeply disconcerting.
42:11If you see,
42:12now this is not
42:13about the games anymore.
42:14If you look at these games,
42:15they have got,
42:16you know,
42:17inbuilt multi-user
42:18playing environment
42:18where you can talk to people,
42:20video chat with them.
42:20So you're playing
42:21with a number of people.
42:23You can do online purchases,
42:25you can play unlimited,
42:26there is,
42:27you know,
42:28intentional or unintentional
42:29exposure to,
42:31you know,
42:32online grooming,
42:33sexual exploitation,
42:35sometimes radical
42:35and harmful violence
42:37in terms of stickers,
42:39avatars.
42:40So this is
42:40a complete virtual world.
42:43It's not a game anymore
42:43and all these,
42:44you know,
42:45apps like TikTok
42:45or, you know,
42:46games like Robolex
42:47where you can design
42:48your own game,
42:49these are,
42:50you know,
42:51social networks
42:52disguised as games
42:54and these games
42:56are not selling
42:57any sort of education
42:58or entertainment.
42:59They are selling addiction
43:00and, you know,
43:02it is like
43:02you are handing over,
43:04you know,
43:04mobile phones.
43:05It's like,
43:05you know,
43:06giving alcohol to children
43:07and then blaming the bottle.
43:09We have literally set them
43:10in an unregulated,
43:11unsupervised digital world
43:12where they have no remedies
43:13to seek help.
43:14There is,
43:15look at this girl,
43:16they were absolutely cut off
43:17from any social circle,
43:19no school,
43:19no friends,
43:20no education
43:20and then they are writing,
43:21we are feeling lonely.
43:22So, it is not about
43:23a particular game
43:24or an app.
43:26Look,
43:26even countries like China
43:28which are the,
43:29you know,
43:29originator of all these games
43:30which are making maximum revenue
43:31for the games like PUBG,
43:33even a couple of years back
43:34they had to come up
43:35with regulations
43:36like, you know,
43:36for particular games
43:37for a particular A segment
43:38we will only allow
43:39one hour of time limit
43:40to be played,
43:41two hour of time limit
43:42to be played.
43:43Here in this country
43:44we have literally
43:44thrown our society
43:45under the bus
43:46where everybody
43:47is supposed to come in
43:48and monetize our society
43:49based on data.
43:49There are no rules,
43:51no regulations,
43:51no women and child ministry
43:53doing anything.
43:54I mean,
43:54I have seen in places
43:56like Uttar Pradesh,
43:58you know,
43:58children of the barbers,
44:00farmers,
44:01they are not going to school,
44:01they are playing PUBG
44:02for four hours,
44:03five hours,
44:04six hours
44:04and if you take away
44:05their mobile phone
44:06they turn violent.
44:07You have seen many of the,
44:08you know,
44:09episodes where,
44:10you know,
44:10children are stealing
44:11the credit cards
44:12of their parents
44:13and doing monetary transactions
44:14and there is a dark reality
44:16how these free games monetize.
44:18I mean,
44:18once they sell addiction
44:20they want you
44:21to be under peer pressure,
44:22they want you
44:23to have better avatars,
44:24they want you
44:24to buy different skins,
44:26they want you
44:26to cross different levels
44:27and people
44:28and they are offered
44:29not by level by level,
44:30you can purchase
44:31and buy them.
44:31So children,
44:33even youngsters
44:33or teenagers,
44:34they end up using
44:35money of their parents
44:36and buy these avatars
44:38and so there is
44:38this dark world
44:39of monetary exploitation
44:41hidden in these apps
44:42and social networks
44:43which is completely
44:44unregulated.
44:45So no matter
44:46what you do,
44:46no matter
44:47what we debate,
44:48unless and until
44:49you have a regulatory body
44:50which can curb
44:51the time you are spending
44:52on this app,
44:52which can actually
44:53analyze an app,
44:54I mean 95% of parents
44:56don't even know
44:56what kind of game
44:57the child is playing.
44:58They just see some
44:59cartoons
45:00and they think
45:00it is harmless.
45:02So you know,
45:02you have to have
45:03a regulator
45:03and also you know,
45:05you can't allow
45:05a phone to become
45:07your parent.
45:08You can't allow
45:09a phone to become
45:10your parent.
45:11Fair point.
45:12I really,
45:13you know,
45:14I'm glad that we had
45:15three very distinct
45:15points of views.
45:16Thank you for taking
45:17the time out.
45:18It's something I think
45:19I'm going to do now
45:20and get all three of you
45:21back and we can maybe
45:22in detail discuss
45:24on what we can really
45:25move towards
45:26because cases like this,
45:28you know,
45:28maybe once in a way
45:29shock you,
45:31but then something
45:33needs to be done
45:34and needs to be in terms
45:35of even if it's
45:36a mere discussion
45:37to discuss various
45:38facets of it.
45:39I thank all three of you
45:40for joining us
45:41taking the time
45:41out this evening.
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