- 2 days ago
As Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Vijay and Jan Suraaj founder Prashant Kishor emerge as influential political voices, panellists discuss whether India is witnessing the rise of a credible alternative to traditional parties. The discussion explores changing voter expectations, the appeal of regional and issue-based politics, and whether new-age leaders can challenge the dominance of established political formations. Experts also examine whether public sentiment is shifting towards fresh leadership ahead of upcoming electoral battles.
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00:00Hello and welcome to yet another edition of the Democratic Newsroom.
00:03We have a brand new topic to debate.
00:06We have a band of editors and our permanent fixture now where Democratic Newsroom is concerned.
00:11Some Gen Z flavor with my colleague Jessica.
00:15But let's quickly throw open the debate this evening.
00:18What are we debating?
00:20Well, we've had Vijay, we've had the CJP and we've had Prashant Kishore winning in Bankipur.
00:26Are people sick of old school politics?
00:28Are they looking for alternatives?
00:30Is this a wake-up call not just for the incumbent but also for the opposition?
00:35We are joined all the way from Mumbai, our consulting editor, Rajdeep Sardisai.
00:41Gaurav Sawant continues to be with us.
00:43Akshita Nand Gopal as well and like I said, Jessica.
00:46Rajdeep, would you want to go first?
00:50Thank you very much.
00:51Namaskar.
00:52Kashi Aata Appan Sakde.
00:53Me Mumbai ta hai.
00:56Look, you're right.
00:57Right.
00:57You're not, I believe that there is an anti-establishment mood in general if we are looking broadly at what's
01:06happening around us at the moment.
01:08There's a sense that the, to use a Gen Z term, I don't know whether it's a Gen Z or
01:13a millennial term, the system sucks.
01:15A large number of Indians who over the last, not just last 12 years, but over the last 25, 30
01:21years, feel that the system hasn't done enough.
01:24While one India has moved ahead, the other has been left behind, that India which has been left behind and
01:30many who are caught in the middle are expressing their anger and frustration against politics as usual.
01:35And that anger and frustration against politics as usual leads them to look at new figures.
01:42Now, who are those new figures?
01:43They could be a Vijay in Tamil Nadu.
01:48They could be a Prashant Kishore in a limited sense in Bakipur.
01:51Let's not exaggerate that.
01:52Remember, the same Prashant Kishore did not open his account just six months ago in an assembly election.
01:58So, there are various reasons why he's won Bakipur.
02:01But as we are seeing with the protests in Jharkhand, where you did such fine reporting and indeed even in
02:06Delhi, the fact is that a number of young people are feeling frustrated with the system and expressing their anger
02:13and looking for potentially new alternatives.
02:16And thereby, there's a certain tiredness with traditional politics.
02:20That tiredness represents the traditional politics of both sides of the divide.
02:25Perhaps both the Congress or the major opposition parties and the ruling party have to get wake-up calls.
02:32And I think what we've seen in the last few weeks is a wake-up call for the system.
02:37We don't want you to practice politics as usual.
02:40Enough of your promises.
02:42Show us solutions.
02:44Act.
02:44When yesterday we did a story that a Lucknow-Kanpur expressway has seen five repairs in 20 days, there was
02:52anger.
02:52Look at the kind of remarks we're getting on that story.
02:55People are gettingтАж
02:56People feel strongly that the system is not delivering.
03:00So, that's the message, I think.
03:02And thereby, they're looking for new options.
03:04All right.
03:05Well, you know, Rajdi, for somebody who's so frugal with compliments, I must archive this footage.
03:11But Gaurav, would you want to come in?
03:13Where do you stand?
03:14Because we've seen now three political events.
03:17We've seen Vijay being the chief minister, where the voter didn't choose the incumbent, but also went for somebody who
03:23was completely new.
03:24Then you had the CJP, Kokoro Janta Party, which was able to draw the kind of crowds in Jantar Mantar.
03:30And then you had Prashant Kishore, where even your principal opposition was lagging not just number three, but way back
03:38at number three.
03:39And I'm so proud of the Indian democracy.
03:41It is so strong.
03:42It is so vibrant.
03:44And it is so responsive that no leader can think that he or she is indispensable.
03:51That's the strength of Indian democracy.
03:54And everything that has been said is so reflective of an ecosystem that was spreading canards about India being an
04:02elected autocracy, which we clearly are not.
04:06Election after election, that's been proven.
04:08But the same ecosystem, some overseas and some within, they parrot the same tired lines.
04:14And perhaps within six months, they may do so once again.
04:17Because the fact that we are such a strong democracy, look at what is happening.
04:22One Bankipur does not reflect the bigger picture of entire Bihar.
04:27Just six months ago, we were all on ground zero.
04:29And BJP won, BJP NDA won that state handsomely.
04:34In Bengal, they've come to par in a huge way for the first time ever.
04:41If you look at the bigger picture overall in the country, 2024, the BJP went down to 240 seats.
04:49Congress came up to 99 seats.
04:51But ever since, election after election after election, there is a tough battle for every vote.
04:57And that is what matters.
04:58Whether it's the BJP or the Congress or the Aam Admi Party or any other party across our country,
05:03they have to sell a narrative.
05:05They have to convince people.
05:07And whoever gets convinced with whichever party, that party wins.
05:11Democracy wins.
05:13Akshita.
05:13Well, I'll just say that I think one of the lines that we spoke of is Vijay, CJP and PK.
05:21Look, from Tamil Nadu at least, I can say that do I see it as a rise of alternative politics?
05:25Not really.
05:26Because Vijay pretty much stood for what Dravidian parties also stood for.
05:29It's not really an alternative there as much as it's, you know, a combination of superstar plus someone who's, you
05:36know,
05:36they've seen growing up, they've seen for the last three decades, who's now entered politics.
05:40And that's what they went for.
05:42So I don't really see the rise of alternative politics there.
05:44The one factor that I do see, however, is that of Gen Z in Tamil Nadu, which played out a
05:50great deal, much before CJP, much before what we saw at Jantar Mantra.
05:54I think there was a whole conversation about Gen Z already in Tamil Nadu because of the impact that they
05:59had in this particular election in the state.
06:02And I think comparing a Vijay, talking about Vijay as a political alternative and then Prashant Kishore as an alternative,
06:08I think also is not something that sums it up.
06:11Because to me, Prashant Kishore has, yes, had one hit in Bankipur, but otherwise is a political flop.
06:16Hasn't managed to taste success.
06:18His party didn't perform well.
06:19So he has to do a lot more to be able to even talk or be an alternative for that
06:24matter.
06:24CJP is not even a political party.
06:26So what are we talking about?
06:27No, but what we're talking about is the sheer fact that three very, CJP is a political pressure group.
06:34Prashant Kishore and Jessica, this is where I'll draw you in, was somebody who fared very badly in the elections,
06:40but came back very, very strongly during the Bankipur bipoles.
06:43The sheer fact that he won an election seat which belonged to the party president of the BJP and from
06:49a party which rose from a 7% vote share in elections about eight months ago to 50% shows
06:56that jump.
06:57On the other hand, you have Vijay, like Akshita pointed out, which was propelled to power by the power of
07:02the Gen Z.
07:03All three were common.
07:04Gen Z, a generation that you come from, find commonality in all of these three phenomenas.
07:11Clearly a part of propelling Vijay, clearly massively fuelled the protest called by CJP.
07:20And if we actually dig into numbers right now, Jan Suraj was supported massively by an age group between 18
07:26to 25.
07:27So what is it that the Gen Z is seeing in people who have been politically, are political novices?
07:36I think, Gen Z, what we're also seeing in Jharkin protests happening right now is that a lot of people
07:41don't want to associate with any of the current political parties and they don't want to share the stage with
07:46them.
07:46It's sort of like Gen Z has lost their faith in the current political system.
07:50They don't find their issues being resonated or the kind of action they want.
07:57They don't see that that has happened so far.
07:59So they are sort of fatigued with the current political system.
08:02And so they are seeking for new voices or for new people who would actually take up the mantle and
08:06take up their cause.
08:08This is what we're seeing in Ranchi as well.
08:10Because a lot of student protesters, they're saying we don't want to share the stage with any political party like
08:14perhaps what CJP did at their protest.
08:16And so we don't want to, you know, associate with any of these parties and we want it to be
08:21about student issues.
08:22So I think there is a Gen Z factor.
08:24And in all the cases in Tamil Nadu, in PK also, we saw a lot of Gen Z people supporting
08:29PK and a lot of youth being behind them.
08:32So I think there's definitely a fatigue when it comes to the current political situation.
08:36Because for so far we have seen not a lot has been done when it comes to the political parties,
08:42especially in the kind of, maybe the kind of perception that the political parties have right now.
08:47It doesn't seem to cater to a lot of young Gen Z vote, which is why they're also seeking.
08:51They're all putting Instagram videos.
08:53Yeah, that's something new.
08:55But I don't think that it's really helping at the moment when we see a lot of outreach happening.
09:01You know, I'm going to come back to you, Jessica.
09:03Let's take the debate a little further, because we've spoken about these three phenomenas and where they find commonality and
09:08where they are dissimilar.
09:09Let's talk politics right now.
09:11Is this writing on the wall or is this just one odd phenomena here and there and we really can't
09:17say that this is going to be the trend ahead?
09:19And Rajdeep, would you want to come and weigh in on it?
09:21Because if this is the writing on the wall, then it's writing on the wall as much for the opposition,
09:26the likes of old school political parties like the Congress.
09:30We saw the RJD trail at a distant third in Bakipur, as much as it is for the incumbent.
09:39A couple of points.
09:40First of all, my friend Gaurav Savant has always confuses electoral democracy with a constitutional democracy.
09:45India's electoral democracy is perhaps where the BJP remains, for example, the dominant election machine.
09:52That's not changing because of the events of the last two weeks.
09:54Far from it. They still have huge institutional power and they have a clear political machine that works.
10:02They've built a connect with the voter and that's not going to change when it comes to elections.
10:06What we've seen in the last few weeks is at some level, particularly with the kind of movement that we
10:11are seeing both in Jarkhand and in Delhi,
10:13some sense that people are losing their sense of fear of authority and asking the questions.
10:19Asking the questions that need to be asked.
10:22When you ask me whether this is going to change the politics of the country in terms of electoral politics,
10:27the answer is I don't know.
10:29All I'm saying is what it reflects is a creeping anti-establishment mood.
10:34Anti-establishment doesn't mean anti-Modi government or anti-Mr. Modi.
10:39No, anti-establishment does.
10:41Look, who is the establishment in Jarkhand?
10:43It's a Congress-JMM establishment.
10:45They're in power.
10:46Who was the establishment in Jantar Mantar?
10:48It was the center.
10:49But RajdeepтАж
10:49Somewhere else it will be represented in some other way.
10:51But Rajdeep, in BankipurтАж
10:51I think finallyтАж
10:53But Rajdeep, in Bankipur, if it was an anti-establishment move, then RJD would have been a ready option.
10:59How is it that Jansuraj was able to do way better than the RJD?
11:05Because very simply, A, it's a by-election.
11:07B, the RJD is seen to also represent the ASEAN regime.
11:10People were looking for change.
11:12People were seeing who is the most credible alternative at that particular moment to the BJP in Bakipur.
11:18And the most credible alternative in Bakipur was seen to be Prashant Kishore, who was waging, in a sense, a
11:24relentless battle.
11:25Not against Narendra Modi, but against Samrat Chaudhary.
11:30But Rajdeep, whatтАж
11:38Why did you go for an AIDMK, which was an established opposition Dravidian politics, and went for somebody like Vijay?
11:44The same as inтАж
11:45Because there I disagree with Akshita.
11:48There I disagree with Akshita.
11:51There was a novelty factor.
11:53People were looking for someone who represented change from politics as usual.
11:57They tried the DMK, they tried the AIDMK.
12:00Here is someone who's a superstar, but is someone who's promising, I'm going to end corruption, I'm going to change
12:06politics as usual.
12:08Without saying it in so many words.
12:09He representsтАж
12:10Please understand, a majority of his vote came from those under 40.
12:15It is that cohort.
12:16But exactly, Rajdeep, so not just anti-establishment.
12:19Anti-old-school politics.
12:21Yes.
12:23I think it is.
12:24I don't know why Rajdeep wants to make this distinction.
12:27I think at one levelтАж
12:28Please understand, can I just finish?
12:30Okay, can I just finish?
12:31I'm going to let him just finish.
12:33Can I just finish?
12:34Okay, 30 seconds.
12:35Can I just finish for a moment?
12:3630 seconds, finish, and then I'll go to the world.
12:38I'm just saying, in 2014, when Mr. Modi came to power, he came to power because there was a sense
12:44that the Congress represented an ASEAN regime,
12:46and there was an anti-establishment vote which crystallized around him as someone who was this knight in shining armor
12:53who was going to provide a certain newness.
12:55Now, if you extrapolate that to what is happening in Tamil Nadu in particular, people saw in Vijay someone who
13:01was offering them a sense of hope.
13:03They were not sure what he stood for, but he certainly was not seen to stand for what the DMK
13:08and AIDMK tried and tested.
13:10People are looking for options.
13:12People are looking not alternative politics, but alternatives.
13:15Okay, and Allah wants to come in.
13:17Rajdeepala, different faces.
13:19Not that I'm defending Narendra Modi, but when 2014 Narendra Modi came in, he had a proven track record of
13:25delivering in Gujarat from 2002 to 2014.
13:28So, it's very different from Vijay's novelty factor to Modi's proven track record in a state as Chief Minister and
13:35his vision that he showed to Prime Minister.
13:38Rajdeepala, go to finish.
13:39He sold very successfully.
13:42Mr. Modi sold the Gujarat model as a new model.
13:44Rajdeepala, allow go to finish.
13:46So, there is a Gujarat model that people bought in 2014.
13:48Rajdeepala, allow go to finish.
13:50I'll come to you.
13:51In 2014 and in 2019 and in 2024, you know, Narendra Modi was able toтАж
13:59Not true.
13:59In 2014, they did.
14:02Rajdeepala, allow him to finish.
14:03And then Rajdeep, in 2002 and 14тАж
14:05Can we just go one by one?
14:06Rajdeepala, you and I both covered Gujarat in 2007 elections, 2012 elections.
14:12Each time, his political obituary was written by certain people saying,
14:16Ab to khata mein, ab to khata mein.
14:17And he came back with bigger numbers.
14:19I certainly didn't.
14:19We were covering it on ground in Gujarat.
14:21No, no, no, you're mixing issues.
14:22Say, 2014, it was said, he's a one election wonder, 2019 would be different.
14:292019, he came with even bigger numbers.
14:32Now, is that jiggery pokery on electoral democracy?
14:34He didn't come on a Gujarat model.
14:35He was able to sell either a dream or some delivery.
14:39That depends on the electorate.
14:41Because despite the pain that certain people felt or a certain ecosystem felt,
14:45he came back 2014, 19, 20, 24, whether that electoral democracy or constitutional democracy,
14:53you want to make that distinction, happens in 2027 in Uttar Pradesh and then 2029 in general elections.
14:59We have to wait and watch whether they're able to deliver something and convince the voter.
15:03But it's the vote that will decide Rajdeep on the basis of their actions.
15:08All right.
15:08Okay.
15:08The reason I say that Vijay is not an alternative, Rajdeep, is essentially this.
15:12Let's say Vijay was part of a party like the DMK.
15:16Would he still have managed to get a massive mandate?
15:19100%.
15:19You're talking of Gen Z.
15:20Gen Z didn't feel that fatigue of Dravidian parties.
15:23Gen Z didn't know what it was about.
15:25Gen Z went with Vijay because he was a superstar.
15:28They called him Vijay Mama.
15:29They went with him.
15:30And that's why I say he's not an alternative.
15:32He's a politician like no one that you see right now in the country.
15:36So, there's a very different kind of element there in Tamil Nadu that, you know,
15:40honestly deserves a study of its own.
15:43As far as these alternatives go, Preeti, you look at the next few elections.
15:46Elections around the corner.
15:48Does it mean electoral change?
15:50I don't think so.
15:51Whether we look at, let's say, a Punjab.
15:53Is there a new party on the rise that everyone's talking about that will change elements?
15:57Talk about UP.
15:58Similarly.
15:58Again, nothing I see.
15:59I see the traditional same parties handling it out, fighting it out.
16:02So, you know, there's alternatives.
16:04Yes, we can talk about.
16:05But I don't see electoral rise happening.
16:08But in Punjab, the Aam Admi Party won elections and that was, you know, creditable.
16:12The kind of effort Aam Admi Party put in.
16:14Whether they'll be able to do it again next year remains to be seen.
16:17You're absolutely right.
16:18There's no alternative anymore.
16:19Final comment.
16:20Jessica, come in.
16:21So, I think youth is sort of maybe changing how politicians need to mobilize.
16:25The kind of issues they need to pick.
16:27That doesn't necessarily mean that they might vote for a particular face.
16:30As we've seen in these instances.
16:32Because in all the cases, we saw PK raising the issue of migration and employment.
16:36In Vijay's case also, skill development.
16:39But, Ugele, let me pose this question which Akshuta brought up.
16:41Now you have elections coming up.
16:42You clearly don't have an alternative alternative.
16:45In all the regions.
16:46In all of that.
16:47Rajdeep has a sense that this time, or this is the time of an anti-establishment sentiment.
16:53Is that what is going to play out in all these states?
16:57Because in Punjab, the establishment is the Aam Admi Party.
17:00In Uttar Pradesh, the establishment is...
17:02Ma'am.
17:03Yes, Rajdeep, is the BJP.
17:06I think in some states...
17:07No, no, you're confusing issues.
17:08Okay, one second.
17:10What are you saying, Rajdeep?
17:12Ma'am, look.
17:13You're confusing again anti-incumbency with anti-establishment.
17:17I'm not saying...
17:18Talking about...
17:18I'm talking about a general sense, to use again the Gen Z word, that the system sucks.
17:24There are a number...
17:24I keep repeating.
17:26First of all, don't treat Gen Z as a monolith.
17:29The Gen Z that you will see in a rural Jarkhand is very different to a Gen Z that you
17:33might see in a big city like Mumbai.
17:35But Rajdeep, to be very honest, it's really not so much about the Gen Z.
17:36What is uniting them...
17:37The people sitting in Jarkhand today are not Gen Z.
17:40Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, I am making a distinction...
17:43Madam, I am making a distinction between voter behavior.
17:47Which I cannot predict how people will vote.
17:50I am just saying that there are underlying conditions for various reasons.
17:54From unemployment, to rigging of exams, to the way, to corruption.
18:00All of which come together in a way...
18:02To the fact that incomes have been stagnant for many people after COVID.
18:08We don't realize all of this.
18:09We sit in the studios...
18:10No, we do.
18:10There's a new aspect that is coming in and that is technology.
18:13That's the big tech that's coming in.
18:15I would love to see Mr. Goran Savas do a program of standard income.
18:20That is something, again, which will become very crucial in the next elections.
18:25What role does big tech play?
18:25See, ultimately, there is a disconnect.
18:27We've seen it in Jarkhand.
18:29We've seen it in Jantar Mantar.
18:31But, Jessica, finish.
18:32Yeah, so as I was saying, I think it will be more issue-based for all these different parties.
18:36Because we don't have alternatives in all these states.
18:39And I don't think there are popular faces also in all of these different parties which can actually get this
18:45kind of support from the Gen Z.
18:46But if they do raise the correct issues, because I think a lot of people are now tired of unemployment,
18:52of not getting jobs, of having to suffer with paper leaks and all of these issues.
18:5730 seconds.
18:5730 seconds for everybody.
18:58Because, you know, Rajdeep, we can continue, you know, speaking about the Gen Z.
19:03But the discontentment is not just the Gen Z today.
19:08The people who are sitting in protest in Jharkhand, Rajdeep, is not Gen Z.
19:11Absolutely.
19:11This is a set that have lost their youth.
19:13They are middle-aged men and women who want accountability for what happened to their youth.
19:19Yeah, but, you know, the discontent exists.
19:22But I can't tell you with any force that if tomorrow, for example, in Maharashtra, where I am, the government
19:27announces 2,500 under Latki Bahin.
19:30Will the person who is getting the benefit of 2,500 vote because she is getting Latki Bahin benefits?
19:37Or will she vote because she is discontented and her son doesn't have a job?
19:40I don't know that.
19:41All I am, I am only giving you the objective reality in this country.
19:45In this country, there is a large class, a large bulge, which is discontent at the moment.
19:50And you need to listen to them.
19:52I agree.
19:53And for God's sake, start doing stories on them.
19:56Instead of doing your usual redundancy studio.
19:59Go by election results and election after election after election.
20:02When you look at states, how many states is the only reason for the vote of Libya?
20:06One by one.
20:0721 or 22 states, India is in power.
20:10I think of 4,123 MLAs in this country, the BJP has 1,800-odd MLAs.
20:16So, large part, voting angry, not voting, not angry.
20:20That is Rajdeep, sir.
20:22I didn't mention the word, I didn't mention the word, BJP Congress by one word.
20:27Why is my friend, Gaurav Savan, getting so defensive?
20:30He said any party, any political party, my point is, that is Rajdeep, I said you decided in elections.
20:36Is Gaurav Savan saying sub-Changasi in India?
20:37It is decided by voters in elections.
20:40Is Mr. Gaurav Savan saying nobody is suffering from stagnant?
20:44Is he saying no one is hurting at the bottom of the pyramid?
20:52Gaurav Savan is living in a cuckoo land.
20:54Gaurav Savan is living in a cuckoo land.
20:57Then ultimately they may come out and hit the streets of Jantar Mantar.
21:00When they go back to their village, they look at caste, they look at candidates, they look at so many
21:03other factors.
21:03But that didn't happen this time in Bankipur.
21:05They did not look at caste.
21:06But Bankipur is one swallow, does not make us suffer.
21:11I agree with that also.
21:13Yeah, I just think it will be more issue based as long as we are raising the correct issues.
21:17So something shifted is what you are saying, at least where your generation is concerned, that's all the time that
21:20we have for now.
21:21That's a wrap, thank you for joining in.
21:23We will see you next Thursday, though this happened on a Friday, up next is To The Point.
21:43.
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