- 2 weeks ago
Can the CJP movement reshape Indian politics by nurturing a new generation of under-40 leaders? The panel explores whether the protests mark the beginning of a lasting Gen Z political leadership.
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00:00We are planning! We are planning!
00:05We are planning!
00:06We are planning!
00:17Center bows to Gen Z protest.
00:28Minister out new law to tackle paper leaks.
00:38Does CJP signal Gen Z's entry in politics?
00:43To the people of India, this is how a democracy should be.
00:50This is the country!
00:53This is the country!
00:57What does Gen Z really want?
01:00Do you believe that a party, a young party which is at the moment a pressure group should become a
01:05political party?
01:06It's one thing for the Prime Minister to do reels for Instagram, but is that enough?
01:11Is that enough to embrace Gen Z? What they think? How they respond?
01:16Decoding Gen Z factor in politics.
01:20Gen Z Roundtable with Rajdeep Sardesai.
01:26Hello and welcome to the Weekend Roundtable.
01:30Born in 1965, I am what they call a boomer.
01:36Don't ask me what that means, but it basically means I'm a little old.
01:40I'm far removed, in fact, by a generation or two from the audience that is now the talk of the
01:48country.
01:49Gen Z.
01:50That's right, the demographic cohort that is born between 1997 and 2012.
01:57Those mainly between the age of about 18 to 29.
02:01Everyone is talking about Gen Z, particularly after the student protests led by the Kokruj Janata Party and other student
02:10organizations like ISA, NSUI and other political organizations of students, led eventually to the resignation of the education minister, Darmendra
02:22Pradhan.
02:23But the question everyone is asking, what does Gen Z really want?
02:28What is Gen Z's heart?
02:30Can they really change the political narrative of a country of 1.4 billion people?
02:36Are movements that were led by the Kokruj Janata Party simply a flash in the plan?
02:41Or do they signal a substantive change in the way Indian politics will play out?
02:48Will mainstream parties embrace Gen Z?
02:52These are just some of the questions that we want to look at in this very special Weekend Roundtable.
02:58Joining us now on the Gen Z Weekend Roundtable, I'm joined by Gurmehar Kaur.
03:03She's an author, activist, now actively associated with the Congress Party.
03:09Rishabh Shah, founder of AIMUN, a group that works among students across the country.
03:16He himself is a millennial, but he works primarily among Gen Z students across India.
03:22I'm joined by Rajat Sethi, political analyst, who's worked closely with the Bharatiya Janta Party in the past.
03:29Ashutosh, political analyst, editor-in-chief of SatyaHindi.com.
03:34He's also been associated in the past with the Aabhadmi Party.
03:38And two of our very own Gen Z's or millennials in our newsroom.
03:43Jessica Goyal is probably the youngest anchor that we have at India Today.
03:48She's also with our Newsmo, which is an Insta kind of news website.
03:54And Anand Singh, Anand is the young journalist, India Today Digital,
03:58who broke the big story that documented the pellet guns that were fired during the Delhi protest.
04:05So all bases covered.
04:06I'm going to raise one by one big questions and seek answers.
04:11My first big question on the Gen Z roundtable.
04:14Does the Kokhrut Janata Party's rise signal the arrival of Gen Z on the country's political map?
04:24That's the question I want to pose right at the very outset.
04:28Why don't you take that question, Rajat Sethi, as someone who's tracked Indian politics in recent times.
04:34How do you see the Kokhrut Janata Party? A flash in the pan?
04:37Or is it going to change the way Indian politics is fought in the future?
04:43Good evening, Rajat Sethi.
04:44You know, as the saying goes that the truth is always somewhere in the middle.
04:48And I still believe that if this formation of the Kokhrut Janata Party sustains itself as a pressure group,
04:57it will be able to exert some moral pressure onto the government of various hues and colors that we will
05:04see over the next several years.
05:05But as, you know, Anton Zagger in his very interesting book, Hyperpolitics says that it's easy to mobilize.
05:13It is much harder to organize.
05:16Therefore, it will be a fleeting protest.
05:19If there are not enough, you know, moral aspects or anchors around it, if they do not sustain, we will
05:27see this movement to wither out.
05:29Just be that one spike of a moment when everybody coels together.
05:33And thereafter, it just fizzled out because, you know, the issue fatigue kicks in.
05:38The issue largely gets addressed.
05:40And thereafter, it becomes difficult to build an internal cohesion around the path that has to be taken forward.
05:48Incidentally, if they tried getting onto the political turf, that would be very interesting.
05:54But I believe that, you know, with the Gen Z, a lot of people who would want to go back
05:59to their careers,
06:00they would not want to see this movement to transform itself necessarily as a political outfit.
06:05A lot of the leaders that you see today might join some of the prominent parties, as it has happened
06:10in the past.
06:11Right from the university movements, we saw Kanaya who stepped out and joined the Congress Party.
06:17Several others, including the OBC movements that happened in Gujarat, Hardik and others, they went on and joined the Congress
06:23Party.
06:24So a lot of these leaders who become the face of these social movements, they tend to find, you know,
06:30a good, interesting head start into politics.
06:33So if that happens, you will again see this thing withering out.
06:36I mean, the experiences that this country has had with these movements who start off with a high moral plank
06:41dissipates because politics takes over.
06:44I therefore hope and pray that in order to keep the moral compass intact, stay away from politics.
06:54Stay away from politics. Interesting. I'm going to come to the Gen Z to respond to that, the Gen Z
06:58panelists.
06:59But Ashutosh, you've also tracked politics for years. You were part of the Aam Admi Party,
07:03which is also perhaps one of India's most successful startups, certainly in recent times.
07:07Do you agree with Rajat that the Kokruj Janata Party or parties like that should remain pressure groups, stay out
07:13of politics, don't become a political party?
07:16What's your view?
07:18See, Rajdeep, in Hindi, we say that if we smoke, we smoke, we smoke too.
07:23So I'm the one who is an example of how the movement turns into the political party and then what
07:28happens.
07:28So I pray to the God and I pray to Almighty that this movement should not get into a political
07:33party because political party and the politics per se is so powerful, it has tendency to appropriate any kind of
07:40the movement.
07:41This is exactly what has happened with the JP movement. This is what has happened with the Anna movement.
07:46And this is what will happen to this. Politics is a very, very powerful impulse.
07:50So it's very difficult for anybody to remain, to remain moralistic and continue doing politics.
07:57The Gandhi realized in long back in 1934 that he resigned from the primary membership of the Congress Party.
08:02And rightly so. And he did not aspire for any political post.
08:07If he wanted, he could have become the prime minister of the country, but he decided not to.
08:10And he remained a moral beacon for the Congress Party.
08:14And but you remember in the last days that the Gandhi was very unhappy.
08:17No, no, no, but that was Gandhi. No, no, I'm just telling you.
08:20But Ashutosh, Ashutosh, that was Gandhi fighting against colonial rule.
08:25Are you telling me today that you can effect change in this country only as a pressure group?
08:31Rajdeep, in my opinion, the movement has a historical role to play. It played its role.
08:37To imagine and to believe that in future this will create another movement of this proportion and will make the
08:44government accountable again.
08:45That's something which we should not infer right now.
08:49What happened in the past, what's happened in the last few days,
08:53it's something which is perplexing, which is something which is amazing, which made the government accountable,
08:58and which has restored the faith of the Indian citizens that democracies still arrive in the country.
09:03But to repeat the same thing again and again is not possible.
09:06Even if they emerge as a pressure group, good for them.
09:09But not to get into the politics.
09:14Okay, let me then get the young people on this.
09:17Jessica, in your view, do you believe, would you like to see, you covered the protests at Jantar Mantar.
09:23Would you have liked to see the Kaukruj Janta Party saying that we are becoming a political party?
09:30Do you want a political party out of the Kaukruj Janta Party or parties like this, student movements like this?
09:37I think they have a massive following behind them and they now know that because they have tasted victory in
09:43a sense.
09:44So they now know that they can bring in change and a lesson which is always given to youngsters is
09:50you either become,
09:50you join IAS, you either join the army or you join politics if you really want to see change.
09:55And they have sort of led here by example when we see that.
09:59And I think, yes, I think in some way or the other they should turn into a political party at
10:04some point of time.
10:05I know a lot of people here are very cautious because of history and what it has taught us.
10:10But this generation is showing us already that, you know, it's paving new ways and it's doing things in a
10:16very distinctive style.
10:17So we never know if it turns into a political party. We might see different kind of results.
10:23But I did speak to a lot of Gen Z's if they would support CJP and would they actually vote
10:28for CJP if it turns into a political party.
10:31And a lot of them seemed cautious.
10:34Because after a point, CJP was not about just the faces that we saw on the stage.
10:39It was not only about Dipke and Saurav Das or Sonam Vangchuk.
10:42It turned into much more than that and it became a student's movement.
10:46So a lot of them related to the cause but they were still iffy if they would actually support CJP
10:52if it turned into a political party.
10:54Which is something that a lot of them say even today if there is another protest which has been called.
10:58And would a lot of them come to the protest?
11:00If the issue resonates with them, yes they will.
11:03But if it's just another protest on the surface of it and there is no issue which resonates with the
11:11Gen Z, with the students,
11:12then a lot of people seem to be on the fence.
11:18Ah, interesting.
11:19Okay, Anand, what is your view?
11:21Do you believe that a party, a young party which is at the moment a pressure group should become a
11:26political party?
11:27Do you believe they will have the same support?
11:30I think it would be difficult for them to, I mean they have a massive following and I mean they
11:36have caught the attention of the youngest generation which is going to be the biggest voting block in the coming
11:41years.
11:41So that's something that's very remarkable but it would be difficult for them to mobilize people.
11:49Right now we saw one instance in which digital empathy, it translated into ground mobilization.
11:56But doing that again, that might be a challenge.
11:59Although I would like to see them try again and you know, because if you want ground accountability, grassroots accountability,
12:08you have to be active politically.
12:09You can't just be a pressure group and that's something that might be difficult for them because right now it's
12:18not very cohesive because a lot of support that they've got is present digitally.
12:23And on the grassroots, getting that right, it might be difficult but then again I would like to see them
12:30try.
12:34Okay, you want to see them try because Gurmehar Kaur, you've actually made the leap in a way from sort
12:41of being an activist or having her voice heard to actually now becoming part of the Congress party.
12:47Do you want to see a party like the Congress, like the Kokhruj Janata Party or a movement turn into
12:55a political party or do you fear that the moment you enter the political party sphere, they will lose their
13:01novelty factor?
13:02They're novel at the moment because they can be anti-establishment because they're not part of any political party.
13:08Do you want them to be part of a political formation or form their own party?
13:13I think this is not simply just about the CGP.
13:17I know that these are figureheads of the Sudan movement that just happened.
13:20And there was somebody who sort of captured a space digitally where, and they came across as apolitical, they came
13:28across as satire.
13:29But what they were, the demands that they were making, the actions that they were doing, the kind of mobilization
13:34that they were doing were deeply political.
13:36I think we in this country have this amazing habit of shunning everything that is political.
13:43We think politics is dirty. We think politics is bad.
13:46But politics happens to us every single day.
13:49If I walk out in the street, politics is happening to us.
13:52And this issue of, so I think this idea, attaching this morality, attaching this novelty to a student movement and
14:01saying it's only pure and it's only perfect as long as it's not political or as long as it doesn't
14:08bring leaders out of it.
14:10And if I have to, I think, I think any student leader from any student movement or any grassroots movement
14:17should turn into, should step into electoral politics because the electoral politics space is going to exist.
14:24It's not if these student leaders who are going, who are representing the voice of 60% of this country
14:30at this point, if they do not take up this political electoral space that exists, it's not like, it's not
14:36going to be a situation where that space is going to have a vacuum.
14:39It is going to be filled up. It is going to be filled up probably with somebody with white hair.
14:44And is that something that we want? I do think we need representation.
14:48And I think the sort of moral shaming of young people who want to be into politics is a bit
14:53boring.
14:54It's a bit anti-Gen Z to attach morality to people. Let's keep your movements.
14:59No, we should have a movement political.
15:02We should demand political accountability and we should step into the political system because that's the system that we have,
15:07the constitution, the politics, the fun and the thrill of it, all of it.
15:12I mean, that's what, that makes us Indian, doesn't it?
15:17You know, it's interesting the way you're putting it because a number of leaders over the years in this country
15:22have come through student movements.
15:24Even Narendra Modi ji prior was part of Nandirman agitation in the 1970s.
15:28Of course, those were very different times.
15:30But Rishabh, you know, you've started a grouping that works among students, not for profit.
15:37But many would say that if you really want to bring change, you can't be a talking shop.
15:42You can't even be a pressure group like the CJP is at the moment.
15:45You've got to become a political formation.
15:48Do you believe young millennials, young, the Gen Z wants a political party they can identify with?
15:55Whether it's through their memes, the way they communicate, the language they use, all of this is very much Gen
16:01Z.
16:02And that's what the last few weeks have shown that Gen Z wants a formation that they can identify with.
16:11Firstly, thank you so much for having me on your show, sir.
16:14In regards to the conversation I was listening to, what all the other panelists had to say.
16:19And Gurmair, good friend, mentioned it's so important in order to get into politics for young people.
16:25I disagree.
16:26I think that it's not something that is mandatory for young people to get into politics.
16:32You can remain outside politics and also act as a point of reference for politicians,
16:39because I think it's easier.
16:41And sometimes some of the people who've gotten into politics from the organization,
16:44they find it harder in order to communicate with the high command culture that is there in their own political
16:49parties.
16:50So I think there has to be a space for people outside of politics who can bring about change as
16:57well.
16:58And there is a huge vacuum out there and we need very many more people to do that.
17:03In regards to your question about how young people are looking for,
17:08are young people looking for icons in politics?
17:11Of course they are.
17:12The people who are currently the political representatives, so to say,
17:16don't represent millennials, Gen Z and definitely not Gen Alpha.
17:20So definitely there is, again out there as well, a huge vacuum available.
17:24Even when you saw the paper league debate that took place,
17:28both the political parties tried to field younger candidates in order to come and speak.
17:32And you saw the Bansuri Swarajis or the Tejasvi Suryas use words such as Nellulu and Solulu per se in
17:38conversation.
17:39But it's much more than that that is required.
17:42You can't have a country which has 28 or 29 percent as Gen Z, about 400 million are Gen Z.
17:49Our median age is below 30.
17:51And you've got a parliament that is ageing.
17:53You've got a cabinet that's ageing.
17:55So, of course, young people are looking for voices in parliament and perhaps a political party that can definitely voice
18:02them.
18:02Will CJ be the solution?
18:04I don't think so.
18:05Unfortunately, when it started, it had the moral high ground.
18:10I think somewhere down the line, they seem to have lost that moral high ground.
18:13Plus, they were only going after one political party and one politician.
18:17So, I do believe that there is a huge space available, but it depends completely upon how young people rise
18:25to the occasion and who fills the void.
18:31You know, I gave all of you preliminary remarks, but let me make it more, you know, let's look at
18:37it from the point of mainstream parties, those with gray hair like me.
18:41And my second question is, will mainstream parties embrace Gen Z?
18:45Because the fact is, and these are the hard numbers, about 28 percent in 2029 will be voters between 18
18:53and 29.
18:54That's the largest demographic.
18:56So, even though that the numbers have been coming down, that is very substantial.
19:0128 percent at least will be between 18 and 29.
19:05Do you believe, Rajat, those in gray hairs will embrace this Gen Z?
19:11It's one thing for the Prime Minister to do reels for Instagram, but is that enough?
19:15Is that enough to embrace Gen Z?
19:17What they think?
19:18How they respond?
19:19It almost seems as if the older generations have been taken aback by the language of this protest.
19:24Some of it has been pretty vituperative, but it's the language that's being used.
19:28And therefore, do you believe that the mainstream parties will readily embrace Gen Z?
19:34Or will they put barriers?
19:36There are huge barriers to enter politics, particularly the money factor.
19:39How do you get elected unless you, if you don't have a big treasure chest with you?
19:44Do you believe mainstream parties will embrace the young?
19:49So, first of all, we are talking about four generations.
19:52One is the boomer generation, then the Gen X, then the millennials, and then the Gen Z.
19:58Currently, in the political spectrum, you're still seeing boomers leading and being supported by the Gen X.
20:05Millennials do not have any representation, by the way.
20:08Will they be short-circuited and the leadership mantle straight away goes to Gen Z?
20:13I doubt that.
20:13I still believe that, you know, history in general, the political lessons, it takes time and it's a very sobering
20:19act.
20:21Every generation is no different.
20:23They all start with their own lingo, their own moral understanding of politics.
20:28They engage in very similar ways.
20:30Vocabulary and grammar could be very different, but they have the same sort of urgency that they feel that we
20:35require urgency of representation, but that doesn't happen.
20:41Therefore, while Gen Z remains an important electoral segment, but how will the mainstream political parties try to cooperate, that
20:51needs to be seen.
20:52But let me tell you, the system has a very high appetite of absorbing these new vocabulary that is thrown
21:01at them, new set of challenges that is thrown at them, without changing its own cold DNA.
21:05So, if the BJP has a cold DNA and a Congress has a cold DNA, those DNAs won't swing much.
21:11They would embrace these new leaders who are coming in from varying generations and make them part of that beast,
21:17part of that system.
21:18So, therefore, things don't change.
21:20Things change in very small delta and there is a constant reversal that keeps happening.
21:27India comes back to its mean of lethargic governance, lack of accountability, be it any party for that matter.
21:34This is where I believe that a lot of the expectations of the Gen Z is going to hit hard
21:41realities very soon.
21:43But millennials are in the queue.
21:45A lot of leaders who have people like Raghav Chadha, Tejas, all of these people are in the queue.
21:50They are far ahead in the queue right now.
21:51So, how does this younger generation elbow their room, create some space for themselves, politically speaking, and how do they
22:00engage?
22:01That remains to be seen.
22:03I, therefore, would want to take a step back.
22:05It was an issue-led thing.
22:07It got its pressure released.
22:09The safety walls are missing in the system, so the pressure was building up.
22:12That pressure has been released.
22:13The next pressure, when will it be formed, all of that needs to be seen.
22:21You know, let's for a moment, Ashutosh, put you on test.
22:25Do you know what FOMO means, Ashutosh?
22:27Can you tell me FOMO?
22:28What does FOMO mean?
22:30Fear of missing out, something like this.
22:33Yes, your test.
22:36Fear of missing out.
22:38What does DELULU mean?
22:41What does DELULU mean?
22:43Delusional?
22:44For solution?
22:45Is it that?
22:47Or SOLULU is...
22:50I don't even know what DELULU...
22:52Jessica, can you tell us?
22:54Can you help Ashutosh?
22:55No, I'll ask you.
22:56Jessica, Jessica, what does DELULU mean?
22:58I don't know what DELULU means.
22:59What does DELULU mean?
23:00Yeah, DELULU is delusional.
23:02And I think what Ashutosh is referring to is DELULU is the only SOLULU.
23:05Okay.
23:06Which is, being delusional is the only solution which is the phrase which is very popular among Gen Z.
23:11So I think we can give him half a mark there at least.
23:14Oh good, thank you.
23:17We'll give him half a mark.
23:18You see, Ashutosh, that's the problem.
23:21Look at the political communication.
23:23Now the Prime Minister is trying Instagram reels.
23:26The point is political communication is changing so rapidly.
23:29To be fair, Narendra Bodhi was among the first to embrace Twitter and Facebook.
23:33Rahul Gandhi, even though much younger, didn't do it.
23:36Do you believe that the older generation is capable of embracing the language
23:39or simply they will co-op them?
23:41Ek do leader rakhenge, and the rest will have no place.
23:46You'll keep one Gen Z face, one millennial face.
23:49The control will be always in the hands of those with grey hair.
23:52We will remain the editors.
23:53Everyone else will have to work for us.
23:57See, Rajdeep, BJP is a very smart party.
23:59If you look at, BJP has got a party president which is just 41, 42 years old.
24:04I think that's pretty surprising for me.
24:07That normally doesn't happen in Indian politics.
24:10But BJP is trying that.
24:12But the problem is that when we talk about Gen Z, then we journalize.
24:15Anybody who was born between 1996 and 2012 is a Gen Z.
24:19But the fact of the matter is, Gen Z is basically an urban cosmopolitan phenomenon.
24:24If you go to the Indian villages, if you go to the rural areas,
24:29will you like to call them a Gen Z?
24:32Will they associate themselves with a language called FOMO and Dululu and Sululu, something like this?
24:39No, they will not.
24:40So, India is a culturally, is a very, very different society.
24:45Yes, it's changing very fast.
24:47But what needs to be done is that if we really want to embrace the youngsters,
24:51then we should have a retirement age for the politician.
24:54It's not that somebody who's crossing 70, 75, 80, we are looking at them as our future.
24:59Look what happened in China.
25:01Deng Xiaoping decided that somebody who's reaching the age of 70 should resign.
25:04And he did do that for the two generations.
25:07Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao, they resigned at the age of 17.
25:10But then, Xi Jinping has turned the table and went back in time.
25:15So, the important is that whether in India, the young generation, they are getting their share,
25:20not only from the urban centers, but also from the rural centers,
25:23not only from the feudal society, but also from the egalitarian modern cosmopolitan society.
25:31You know, it's interesting what you're saying because MPs under 40 in the Lok Sabha, BJP has 9, Congress has
25:377,
25:39TMC has 3, TDP has 4, Samajwadi Party has 5.
25:43These are the top 5, total number is 40.
25:46So, less than 10%, less than 10%, much less than 10% of our Lok Sabha is under the age
25:53of 40.
25:54In fact, under 30 is virtually, well, just a couple.
25:59So, there's a huge gap.
26:01Now, Gurmayr Kaur, you've joined a political party, for example.
26:04Do you believe that there is space for Gen Z or there's only token representation?
26:10When it actuallyтАж
26:10Do the mainstream parties actually want to embrace you?
26:13Or do they just want to use you to attract voters, but you will have no real power?
26:18Power will be with a grey head.
26:20What I was saying was I think the way we imagine politics, the public imagination,
26:25it always ends up with who is contesting, who has won, who represents,
26:30which demographics are represented in the parliament.
26:32I do think the political space is very large.
26:35I don't think it's limited to only your seats in the assembly or your seats in the parliament.
26:39But I think there are multiple places where one can be a politician
26:44and one can politicize people and one can mobilize people.
26:47And those positions could be whether they are powerful positions within their own organization
26:52and the frontals, whether they are powerful positions in back-end teams,
26:55whether they are powerful positions in strategy teams,
26:59whether they are powerful positions where you're taking a campaign
27:02that is deeply important and deeply prudent, I would say, for the party's future,
27:12if you're someone who's leading it.
27:14To me, I thinkтАж
27:16And this is something that is so limiting, right?
27:19And this is something that if we keep talking about young people and political representation
27:24and feeling really sad that enough young people aren't in the parliament,
27:28that just dejects and demotivates so many more younger people.
27:32I do truly feel that there is so much space within the larger political spectrum
27:37because that's really the tip of the iceberg.
27:40You could be a brilliant person, you could be a brilliant old person,
27:42you still might not get a chance to contest an election.
27:45But there is a whole lot of space that one can take and one can do meaningful work
27:50and one can actually change the system.
27:52And I thinkтАж
27:53And I wouldтАж
27:54And I would really like toтАж
27:55I would really like toтАж
27:56If there are young people who are listening to this,
27:58politics is an exciting space.
28:00It is an interesting space.
28:01It is a space where you're wanted and you're needed and you're important.
28:06And it's not limited to just being visible.
28:09For example, I mean, you would know this, the campaign that went viral was 10 years ago.
28:14But I have been working in politics in the back end doing fairly interesting work
28:19up until only two days ago when I did officially join.
28:24So I think there's a lot of space.
28:27I think there's a lot of joy also that comes from that space.
28:30And I think young people can bring about a lot of change.
28:33And once people join the party, I think, or any party, once people join those parties,
28:40the contesting thing becomes even.
28:42Like putтАж
28:43Throw yourтАж
28:45Throw your coin in the hat or whatever the quote is.
28:52It'sтАж
28:52You know, it's easier said than done, of course.
28:55Jessica, what's your view?
28:56Do you believeтАж
28:57Do you believe young peopleтАж
28:59Do you want to see more people under the age of 40 in parliament?
29:03Or at leastтАж
29:04If not under 30, at least under 40.
29:06So if not Gen Z, at least millennials.
29:09Yes, definitely.
29:09Do you believe they understand your issues better?
29:12I think age doesn't reallyтАж
29:15I mean, when we're looking for leaders, even when Gen Z is looking for leaders,
29:18it's not really looking at the age of the person
29:21and thinking that this person can be a good leader or not.
29:24I don't think that's a determining factor for a lot of Gen Z choosing their leaders.
29:29When we look at the parliament, a lot of words that were used in the parliament,
29:32I don't think a lot of parliamentarians even understood it.
29:35And the fact that they were using these words to appeal to the Gen Z.
29:39But there is a difference because Gen Z seeks authenticity
29:42and it can almost smell manufactured content from far away.
29:47Because even now we're seeing that a lot ofтАж
29:50in an attempt to reach, to outreach to the Gen Z, we're seeing a lot of social media content now
29:55being made,
29:56which doesn't look very authentic.
29:58And you'll see that a lot of comments and a lot of people talking about it online,
30:03they are just talking about how it doesn't seem very genuine.
30:05So even if you're trying to reach out to the Gen Z, you at least have to be genuine.
30:09It doesn't just mean that you adopt their vocabulary.
30:12And I agree with Ashutosh about the point that he made that Gen Z is not uniform,
30:17especially if you look at rural and urban spaces.
30:20But even then, I would say internet cuts across in such a way, it's very democratic in that sense.
30:27Because even if a person who's sitting in a village somewhere or a person who's sitting in an urban space,
30:33they might be still consuming the same content.
30:36We have seen a rise of these content creators from villages,
30:41people who are donning a saree and speaking in English becauseтАж
30:44And they are being watched in urban spaces like in Mumbai and Delhi and Bangalore
30:49and people are sharing their content as well.
30:51So in that sense, the internet is really democratic because you have space.
30:55It's not just about using the words, it's about the mindset, it's about understanding the issues.
31:00It would be a breath of fresh air to see more people raising the issues of the youth.
31:05I think when we talk of Gen Z, we are again bracketing them in just the kind of people who
31:10are using maybe this lingo
31:11or maybe people who are catching on to the trends, but Gen Z is much more than that.
31:16Not everybody is uniform and we do need people who are talking about the issues which are current
31:21and they're not just raising the usual political issues in the parliament.
31:28You know, what's interesting, Anand, is the way Instagram has been used.
31:32I mean, Kaukrut Janta party has used it.
31:34We've seen the likes in the past election of 2024, likes of Sanjana Jatav,
31:39a young Dalit woman, successful with Instagram, won the election from Bharatpur.
31:43So it is possible today because of Instagram to reach millions in real time.
31:48Do you believe, therefore, that that gives an opportunity?
31:51It's not enough for mainstream parties to just do reels for Instagram.
31:55You're also going to have to embrace that entire ethos that Instagram brings.
32:00Definitely.
32:00So it's like when it comes to Gen Z, digital first engagement is extremely necessary.
32:06And what we have seen from the traditional political parties, the BJP and the Congress,
32:10I believe they have kind of failed miserably there because whatever they have put out on social media,
32:16especially like, you know, trying to be the Instagram generation, they're not very relatable.
32:21It looks extremely forced.
32:22And whatever we saw in the parliament as well, like the Gen Z lingo that suddenly reached the parliament,
32:28I mean, it was not relatable.
32:31And, you know, we recently had a discussion on the reel that the prime minister also put out.
32:37You know, we are not used to seeing our prime minister that way because he has been in front of
32:42the camera a particular way.
32:43And suddenly like we, you know, it kind of looks forced and like what every other politician did.
32:49And also like when it comes to Gen Z, I think the political ways have to change as well, because
32:55this is a generation of instant gratification.
32:58Like if you want validation, you put out a reel, you put out a video, you put out photos and
33:03you get likes and comments instantly.
33:05And even from like, you know, if we look at ordering services like the ambulance, you can do it on
33:13Blinket.
33:13You can get groceries on Blinket.
33:15And like in a similar way, we also saw like how quickly when the Gen Z ran after a politician,
33:21this was, I think, perhaps the first time so quickly a union minister has resigned, the political ways have to
33:27change.
33:28And that's something that I believe the traditional political parties are not very good at.
33:33No, what do they need to do? No, so Anand, what do they need to do? What do they need
33:39to do?
33:39You're saying that these Instagram videos are not genuine. What do they need to do in your view to attract
33:44Gen Z?
33:44They need to have more representation of Gen Z. I believe right now there are only five Lok Sabha MPs
33:49who are Gen Z.
33:51And out of 5, 43. So that's a very less number. And, you know, there has to be authenticity.
33:58And for the older generation to be authentic, you have to be empathetic.
34:03And, you know, that empathy, I believe that's missing somewhere because, you know,
34:09if you just disregard the issues of the younger generation, you automatically become unrelatable.
34:17And that authenticity is not there in any of the social media content that we have seen.
34:22Because on the one hand, you say that, you know, these are the issues that we grew up with
34:26and we dealt with these things in a very different manner.
34:28And, you know, these are very frivolous issues that you are growing up with.
34:31And then on the same, at the same time, you're also trying to use the Gen Z lingo suddenly in
34:37the parliament.
34:37That doesn't sit well with the Gen Z because people notice these things and they're very smart.
34:47You know, I've been doing videos on Instagram of me training in the gym.
34:51I get instant likes, but I'm not sure whether it works.
34:54My children are laughing at me, but it's my way of identifying with the young.
34:58Do some videos about gymming, singing. It's another world out there.
35:03But let's therefore then look, what are the issues really that drives Gen Z?
35:07Rishabh, again, because you work with a lot of young people, what are the issues that they're really concerned?
35:12In this case, it was need paper leaks, but you got a sense that there was a general anxiety about
35:16their future,
35:17whether they'll get jobs, whether they'll get the opportunities in the future.
35:22What are the real issues? And I'm asking you to cut across, you mainly tackle an urban demographic.
35:29What does the urban demographic of Gen Z really want?
35:32What are the issues that concern them? Give me the top three issues.
35:36Right. And, you know, before I just give you the top three issues, one thing that I will definitely mention
35:41is that
35:43political parties can't just co-opt, in my opinion, won't be able to just co-opt Gen Z.
35:48Gen Z are not like millennials. Millennials were more deferential.
35:52We used to say things in a particular manner. We grew up with a particular type of worldview.
35:58We grew up in a generation of test cricket. Today it is T20 cricket.
36:01It is the day and age of instant gratification. So, I think personally that this tokenism that is there,
36:07and of course it is very nice to see the Prime Minister make his fourth Instagram video,
36:12but the idea that the tokenism won't definitely help.
36:15They are unabashedly unashamed about their issues. They will speak about them, get out on the street.
36:20They are unafraid about voicing themselves. So, tackling Gen Z is going to be really different and difficult for political
36:27parties.
36:28And if they don't co-opt them, I do see a possibility of a new political outfit coming through very,
36:33very soon.
36:33That said, the issues of Gen Z, I would say the top three. One is unemployment.
36:40You have got 1.6 crore people which were skilled under the Prime Minister's Skill India initiative,
36:46but only 24 lakh people. Only 24 lakh people, I think, got jobs.
36:5016% is the youth unemployment, at least at an urban level, which I am aware of.
36:56So, one is definitely unemployment. Second, which I would say is climate change.
37:00For far too long have people said that, you know, the cost of economic development and climate change cannot go,
37:07you know, economic development and climate change can't go hand in hand.
37:10I think Gen Z is more aware than ever, and they think that this is the second issue.
37:16And the third, I think, which is a big conversation, is mental health.
37:19And there is not enough that is being done in regards to mental health,
37:23and that's something that was seen even in the NEET and CVSE examinations.
37:26The suicides that are happening are largely because there is no counselling and mental health services that are given.
37:33So, these, in my opinion, are top three issues that needs to be tackled with,
37:36and not in terms of tokenism, but real engagement and dialogue,
37:40which in case of my generation, let me be honest, there was very little dialogue.
37:44It was just one-way monologue that used to take place from the politicians.
37:47I think this generation is demanding dialogue.
37:54Okay. The other, of course, big issue is education.
37:58Gurmayar, what are your top three issues?
38:00What are the top three issues when you talk to the young that concern them the most?
38:08I was just trying to unmute myself.
38:10I think when we think about the young, the biggest mistake that we do a lot of the times is
38:16we,
38:16the word young, we think of urban young people.
38:19We think of people that we see on social media,
38:22bodies or human beings that we see represented on larger pop culture and media spaces.
38:28The truth is, young people today, your gig worker today is a young person.
38:33Your daily wage laborer today is a young person.
38:36The person who is manual scavenging is a young person.
38:40So, if we're talking about the issues of young people,
38:44the young person is not a single, plain, basic cohort.
38:51The young person cohort is full of people.
38:54There's a class divide. There's a caste divide.
38:56And each issues are very separate to each of these groups that make the young people,
39:01that make that cohort of young people.
39:03So, I think one, I would definitely, I will go ahead and agree with Rishabh on the issue of unemployment.
39:10I think that is an issue that is plaguing the lives of young kids from the age of 16 up
39:19until 40.
39:21There is massive unemployment. There is massive, there's a lot of, there's a deep price rise.
39:29And it's also this sense of dejection that the system, there is, there is this push and pull of aspiration,
39:35because suddenly with Instagram, with media, with everything on your phone, you have vision to the world,
39:41where you have vision into the world, which feeds into your aspiration.
39:48But when you look around yourself, there's nothing that the government has given you,
39:52or nothing that the state provides you that will allow you to fulfill those aspirations.
39:56And I think, and I think within that gap is this tension. And I, this tension, this frustration, this hatred,
40:03this sort of bubble of anger.
40:06And that is what we also saw bursting on the streets of Delhi and across the world, across the country
40:13in the past week.
40:15There is, I think that anger is that, is an important issue that comes from unemployment.
40:21Okay. So it's, it's probably, okay, it's probably a combination of anxiety and anger.
40:27But Jessica, top three issues, quickly, what are the top three issues that trouble Gen Z, according to you?
40:32What are their top three concerns?
40:34Definitely education, jobs, unemployment. That's why we saw these huge, massive protests.
40:39But also because of the kind of stories that we've been picking on our platform, which is also very youth
40:43-led and for the youth platform.
40:45The pattern that we have been noticing is of inclusivity.
40:49The Gen Z is very empathetic and they really care about inclusivity.
40:53For instance, if we pick up stories on, you know, Northeasterners and how they are criticized for their looks and
40:59how they are judged for.
41:00Or if women, if we look at the story of Bharti Fulmali and how she's judged, she's a woman cricketer
41:05and she's judged for her looks.
41:08Or if we look at the stories of Riya Ahir, who was a girl who was, who had stopped the
41:14Mumbai van, the police van in Mumbai,
41:16and how she was in slut-shamed and she was trolled online after this action.
41:20So we see that there's a lot of engagement, there's a lot of communication, a lot of conversation happening around
41:26these issues,
41:27especially when we pick up these kinds of stories as well.
41:29So inclusivity and be it racism and all of these issues, Gen Z really feels about that as well.
41:35I think that is one of the issues that we often forget about because this is a generation which has
41:40grown up with a very different kind of setup.
41:42We did not have a lot of these social issues existing that were back there in the 70s.
41:47So this was a different environment, especially even if we look at the urban youth.
41:50And as an extension also I would say climate and environment because every day now with increasing rains and heat,
41:58we are witnessing the sort of wrath of the climate change that we read about in our school textbooks ourselves.
42:04So that is also an issue that Gen Z deeply feels about.
42:07Right.
42:11So what would it take to win the hearts and minds of Gen Z Anand?
42:15What would it take?
42:16What according to you?
42:17Given that these issues are there, there are a basket of issues and, you know, this is a very diverse
42:21country and Ashutosh is right.
42:22There's India A, B, C, D, which I call it.
42:25India A is, you know, living a lifestyle like any European or Western society.
42:30But India B and C are struggling, middle class, those on the margins.
42:34And India D is completely out of the entire aspirational engine.
42:39So given that, what will it take to win the hearts and minds of Gen Z according to you?
42:43What, according to you, would really make them feel, yeah, this India is for us?
42:50You know, first of all, you have to be empathetic, like I said, because every older generation, it has that
42:57tendency to, you know, mock the callow or hollowness of the younger generation.
43:03First of all, you have to stop doing that because, you know, this generation grew up with pretty much every
43:08horror that every older generation had.
43:10Like, if we count the Gen Z from the ones being born in 1997, there was a war that broke
43:18out when they were two or three years old.
43:19They have, again, seen a mini war just last year.
43:23They have seen an economic crisis.
43:24They have seen every, every, they have seen a pandemic.
43:27They have attended colleges and graduated during the pandemic.
43:30So you have to first acknowledge that this generation has seen every, every hardship that could have, that, that a
43:37generation can possibly see.
43:39So you have to be empathetic first and you have to stop ignoring the small demands that the Gen Z
43:45have, which is, you know, acknowledging their mental health and also the kind of work culture that they want.
43:52You know, that's, that's, that's one thing that I believe and, and a fair opportunity at a fair chance at
43:57every opportunity, like, you know, the paper leak issue that became a, that, that became massive because the gen, this
44:05generation, I believe it feels that if, if we don't have a fair chance at, you know, every opportunity that
44:14comes to us in such, in an era of such massive unemployment, it's going to be, it's going to rile
44:21them up.
44:22A lot.
44:22So I think this is, these are the things that one has to take care of, the older generation, especially.
44:28Right.
44:30That's, that's what I think.
44:33Right.
44:34So I, I, I just have a couple of more minutes.
44:36First and last, the older generation, the two boomers on the show.
44:41Will India ever see an under 40 prime minister, you believe, in the next 20 years?
44:46Rajat Sethi, do you believe that we will see, I mean, across the world, you're seeing a lot of prime
44:51ministers under 50, certainly.
44:53Will India see anyone, forget 40, under 50?
44:56Do you believe that will happen or not in the next 20 years?
45:00Under 50, maybe.
45:03But under 40, I don't think so.
45:05I just feel that, you know, this, the newer generations, this irreverence that was being talked about that, you know,
45:13Gen Z is about irreverence.
45:14Now that irreverence extends to organizational boundaries as well.
45:18So they don't respect organizational boundaries.
45:20But without having organizations in place, how do you electorally win?
45:25That becomes a challenge.
45:26You know, that's when rubber hits the road.
45:28And that's where effective, that's the only mechanism in a democracy.
45:31So I believe that I don't see a young under 40, Zoran Mamnani type of politician.
45:37That might be true in a presidential form where you just have to vote for one person, and that can
45:42just stand out.
45:42But when you have a first-past-the-post in a typical Westminster-style setup, you will only find people
45:50with gray hair.
45:51So, Rajdeep ji, you still have a chance.
45:56I still have a chance.
45:58Ashutosh, you also still have a chance.
46:00Do you believe that we will see an under 40 prime minister?
46:03Forget about under 50.
46:04We've had leaders emerging under 50, but very difficult in a country like India.
46:09Will we see a Zoran Mamnani, you believe?
46:12Rajdeep, I had a chance and I missed it.
46:14So let's not get into that truth.
46:16This country was blessed that we had a prime minister who was probably two years old.
46:20Mrs. Gandhi, when she became the prime minister, was very young.
46:23We had many chief ministers who became chief minister at the age of 35, 36, something like that.
46:28So it's not that we did not have that kind of thing.
46:31See, we have to understand one thing.
46:32This generation has been blessed with two things, technology and connectedness.
46:41It is because of this technology and the connectedness, which has got a different kind of culture to the youngsters.
46:47And the only thing this generation wants it is freedom, freedom to choose their career, freedom to choose their relationship,
46:56freedom to choose what they feel and what they think should be said and done.
47:01My generation and your generation, because we live in India and our society where we have so many constraints, even
47:10we can't choose our spouses, we can't choose the food we want to eat.
47:14This generation resents that.
47:16They want freedom.
47:17Accept freedom.
47:18Accept freedom.
47:18Everything is there.
47:20Okay.
47:24Okay.
47:24I just have two minutes on the show, so I'm going to give each one of my millennials and Gen
47:29Z a shot at this.
47:30Who is the one person you admire the most?
47:33Who is a role model for you?
47:35Why don't you start, Rishabh?
47:37Who's your role model?
47:38Is there a role model that you as a millennial have?
47:43Well, I have Rahul Dravid as a role model.
47:46He was very flexible when it came to his batting position, also did everything for the country.
47:51Whenever the country required him to open, he used to open, go to number seven position when need be, used
47:56to bat out the long overs.
47:58So we need a Rahul Dravid in Indian politics, and I really hope that we find one.
48:02The closest resemblance of Rahul Dravid in Indian politics for me is a Devin Fadnavis of Maharashtra.
48:08I think he's been doing the same thing for the BJP.
48:11I do hope that he's given a longer rope and that we can see him in senior position soon.
48:20Okay.
48:20Interesting.
48:21Gurmayar Kaur, do you have a role model as a millennial?
48:27Well, some would say I'm Gen Z at 29.
48:30However, of course, I do have a role model.
48:33And it is in yet another Rahul.
48:35You're 29.
48:35Okay.
48:36Gen Z.
48:37Yes.
48:38Yes.
48:38It is yet another Rahul.
48:39I'm not trying to copy your answer, Aisha, but I think Rahul Gandhi is a brilliant role model.
48:43I think he's a leader who leads with heart.
48:45He's a leader who leads with passion.
48:46He's somebody who has also evolved in his politics.
48:50And I think for younger people, they don't like perfection.
48:52And I think he is someone who, you know, you want to be on a journey with somebody.
48:57And I think Rahul Gandhi has embodied the journey of India through his life and through his politics fairly well.
49:03And he is quite loved by the Gen Z.
49:05It's...
49:06We've all seen those reels.
49:07I think he's quite brilliant.
49:09Okay.
49:12Okay.
49:13You think he's quite brilliant.
49:14Interesting.
49:15Two Rahuls chosen.
49:16Who are you going to choose, Anand?
49:18Who's your role model?
49:19Or...
49:20And do Gen Z want...
49:24Do they embrace Dennis?
49:25Or do they want someone who comes purely through merit?
49:29Actually, I belong to a section of the generation that believes that having a role model is very uncool.
49:36And so far, I have not been able to relate to any leader, especially in politics, who I can call
49:42my role model.
49:43So, I don't really have an answer for that.
49:48Okay.
49:49Okay.
49:50No answers.
49:51You're still in search of your role model.
49:53And final word from you, Jessica.
49:56Do you have a role model?
49:57Does Gen Z have a role model?
49:59I agree with...
49:59I agree with Anand here.
50:00Because our generation is not really into hero worshipping or looking for role models.
50:05Of course, there's a lot of inspiration around us.
50:07There's a lot of inspiring people in our country.
50:09But no name comes to my mind.
50:12But again, this is a generation which is not doing hero worship in that manner that we've seen before.
50:20Okay.
50:21Let's leave it there.
50:22And maybe we should quote what Ambedkar said about hero worship, which he said can be dangerous in a democracy.
50:29Bhakti or hero worship can be dangerous in a democracy.
50:33And maybe what this Gen Z has shown us in the last month in particular, they have no time for
50:39hero worship.
50:39They, in fact, want to create their own narratives.
50:43And it will be up to us, the boomers and the others, to embrace those narratives, to engage with the
50:49young.
50:50Engage with them not just through Instagram reels, but in a real meaningful manner.
50:55That's been the message.
50:57Listen to their voices because they are the future of this country.
51:01Thank you all very much for joining us on this special round table.
51:05To all the viewers, Jai Hind.
51:07Namaskar.
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