- 4 months ago
A political controversy has erupted over the proposed delimitation bill and its impact on parliamentary representation. Southern states, led by Tamil Nadu, expressed opposition ahead of a special parliament session, arguing that linking women's reservation to delimitation penalises regions that successfully controlled population growth.
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00:19Hello and welcome. Good evening, Vanakkam. You're joining us live here on a special edition of
00:24Super 6. I'm joining you live from Chennai. And while we've been tracking for the last many
00:29weeks, the election atmosphere here across Tamil Nadu, today we're bringing you a special
00:34one-hour broadcast counting down to the special parliament session. Why am I having this show
00:39out of Chennai? Because this has triggered a huge political storm. The points over deal
00:44limitation, the showdown over deal limitation peaking here in pole-bound Tamil Nadu. And
00:49we're going to be talking about that showdown. I'll be joined by a team of political panelists
00:53here on Super 6 as well, who I'll introduce shortly. We'll begin first with the headlines.
01:05Stage set for a special two-day parliament session from tomorrow. India Bloc strategy
01:10meet concludes. Congress Chief Kharge claims United Opposition will oppose the delimitation
01:15bill, not women's quota. Prime Minister urges opposition parties to back the women's quota
01:29bill, but I want to tell you, we are not against the reservation. Massive TCS conversion bracket
01:41busted. Maharashtra anti-terror squad probing the case now. TCS HR and manager charged with sexual
01:48harassment and conversion. Sources say Malaysia-based handler was in touch with the accused.
01:56Maharashtra teen predator, who's AIMIM social
01:59media handler, Mohammed Ayan, arrested for sexual exploitation of minors. 180 minors and women
02:05sexually exploited. Part of accused's house now razed, bulldozed by authorities.
02:15Big revelation in the Noida protest probe. Allegations of conspiracy to spread fake news online. Video
02:21from MP used to trigger chaos in Noida. Cops say social media handles linked to the RGD.
02:34Bihar gets a BJP chief minister for the first time. Samrat Chaudhary takes oath of CM to JDO deputy CM
02:41sworn in alongside Samrat.
02:49And Trump's war almost over claim before TOPS 2.0. Trump asserts Iran war close to over.
02:56Says if US escalates right now, it would take Iran 20 years to rebuild.
03:22And we begin with breaking news coming in as we're counting down to the special parliament session
03:28in which the women's quota bill comes up, as does delimitation.
03:32You've got Chief Minister MK Stalin now upping the ante. Remember that he's already issued a warning
03:37to Prime Minister Modi. And now he's gone ahead and urged everyone in Tamil Nadu to be a part
03:43of the protest. He's urged everyone in Tamil Nadu tomorrow to put up black flags in their homes.
03:50DNK MPs in parliament tomorrow will be dressed in black. This is a form of protest by the Dravidar
03:55Munitra Kargam to show their opposition to the delimitation process which they continue to maintain
04:00is hurried, is extremely unfair. And that's why you're seeing this kind of a political controversy
04:06playing out here in Tamil Nadu. We'll have to wait and watch to see how much support really
04:11Stalin gets for his call for the public also to join in on the protest come tomorrow with the
04:17delimitation issue and the bill being brought up in parliament over the next three days.
04:22Chief Minister Stalin is pushing for a united protest and he says for Tamil Nadu to speak
04:28in one voice against delimitation.
04:40Let's bring in Anagar Keshav for more details on this. She's joining us live from Chennai.
04:44Anagar, tell us really how the DNK is planning to stage these protests tomorrow. We understand that
04:51it's going to be statewide across Tamil Nadu. They're trying also to escalate the protest right
04:55up to Delhi. That's right. In fact, Daini Di Maran told us that all the DNK MPs will be dressed
05:02in
05:02black shirts tomorrow in the parliament as a mark of protest against the union government on the
05:07delimitation bill. So tomorrow in Delhi, we can see all of the DNK MPs dressed in a black shirt. Not
05:14just
05:14that even in Tamil Nadu, Chief Minister Stalin has urged every single person in Tamil Nadu to raise
05:20black flags in their homes as a mark of protest against the delimitation. In fact, all the MPs in
05:26DMP have expressed strong condemnation and they are saying that this just penalizes southern states
05:32for absolutely no fault of death. So tomorrow will be sort of a black day of thought in Tamil Nadu
05:36where
05:37Chief Minister Stalin has urged every single carder to actually get to the public and start raising their
05:43black flag sending across a strong message to the union government about that strong condemnation.
05:48You know, interestingly today, anytime now, in fact, Chief Minister Stalin is holding this mega
05:52rally in Salem where you've got hundreds of women attending and there's no doubt he's going to have
05:58a thing or two to say about delimitation. So we'll track that very, very closely. Thanks,
06:01Anika, for the moment. But let's round up for you what this controversy is all about and all the
06:06reactions that have come in in the last 24 hours. It's not just Tamil Nadu, but other southern states,
06:12all ruled by the opposition parties, coming together and making it very clear that they're
06:16against the delimitation process. Let's get to all the reactions first in this report before we open this up.
06:27A political storm is brewing over delimitation and this time the fault lines are clear. North versus South.
06:34South. The center is pushing ahead with a special parliament session. The opposition is bracing for a
06:47confrontation and southern states are raising a united alarm. From April 16 to 17, the government is
06:55planning to roll out sweeping changes, expanding the Lok Sabha from 543 to 850 seats and linking the
07:03implementation of 33% women's reservation directly to delimitation.
07:11The opposition sees this as more than reforms, calling it a move that could alter
07:16India's political balance, putting South at a disadvantage.
07:22Tamil Nadu chief minister M.K. Stalin leads the resistance, terming it a major injustice,
07:28warning of serious consequences. He calls it a historic injustice against southern states and calls
07:35for black flag protests across the state. He questioned whether the southern states were being punished for
07:40contributing to India's progress and warned that the move had triggered widespread anger across the region.
07:49Tamil Nadu will lead to Thedmanilanggalom.
07:53In the news of the Manilanggalom.
07:55All aboard put the Valaman, I think that they were a R.M.J.
08:03in the news of the Manilanggalom.
08:14We are a restricted population growth and today we are praying the price.
08:20UP, BR, Rajasthan never followed the population. They had a population boom.
08:25They had never developed. So they are now, because of mere population size,
08:30they get more MPCs. Whereas we follow your norms and we get penalized. Is this fair?
08:38BJP hit back at Stalin saying that he should first focus on basic issues in Tamil Nadu and then talk
08:44about delimitation.
08:47Stalin let him talk about the basic problem which Tamil Nadu people are facing.
08:52When basic problems are not solved, he is talking about delimitation, he is talking about NEP,
08:58and he is talking about SIR. It's very, very unfortunate.
09:04Chief Minister with such a negative mindset, such a negative mindset,
09:08because people are facing a lot of problems. You can see there is no safety for women,
09:13and no law and order situation, and the election process is going on.
09:20Telangana Chief Minister Revant Reddy is rallying Southern leaders, pushing for a united stand,
09:25highlighting risks of growing regional imbalance.
09:30BRS Working President KT Rama Rao questions the linkage itself, arguing that women's reservation
09:36should be implemented independently and warning of large-scale public agitation if Southern representation is reduced.
09:45The Southern representation is suppressed, then we definitely have a huge concern.
09:50Because in 1971, the freeze on number of Parliament seats in India was brought with the intent of controlling population.
09:58Now, population control has been enforced effectively in the Southern states. The Northern states did not do it.
10:04If our numbers come down, if our voices are cut down and suppressed, we will certainly lead a revolt,
10:09and we will certainly agitate against the Government of India's decision. There is no question of us supporting the bill
10:15at all.
10:17Meanwhile, Union Minister Kiran Rajijju said that there are attempts being made to mislead the Southern states on women's reservation
10:24bill and delimitation.
10:28Objective of providing reservations to the women in the Parliament of India and the assemblies of the states,
10:35no political party will oppose it. An Honorable Prime Minister has expressed his gratitude
10:40to all the political parties for coming together in the national interest because women's reservation cannot be a political issue.
10:49We have waited for 40 years. We can't afford to wait for another year or another decade. It will be
10:56extremely painful.
11:00As Parliament gears up, India is heading into a high-stakes battle, one that could reshape not just
11:06its constituencies but the balance of power itself. The big question, is this a reform or a political reset?
11:13Bureau Report, India Today.
11:20Okay, so is this much ado about nothing or is what the South states say that, you know, delimitation is
11:27unfair,
11:28it will lead to not so much adequate representation in Parliament of the Southern states?
11:33To discuss that and much, much more, I'm joined by a political panel here. We've got from the Congress,
11:38Mr. Venkatesh Ramaraj, making his debut on India Today. So, Vanakam, welcome, sir, to our program.
11:43We've got also Mr. Ramakrishnan Rajagopal. I'm sure you recognize him from our IAS officer, spokesperson of the Tamil Nadu
11:49BJP.
11:50Kovei Satyan, our regular here at the AIDMK spokesperson, and for a change with us in Chennai, instead of Delhi
11:57in Chennai,
11:57and Manu Sundaram of the Dravid and Munetra Kargam, very rarely joins us, but nice to have you with us
12:02on the program today.
12:03So, good evening, gentlemen. We look forward to a discourse, a discussion, a debate on delimitation.
12:09And Manu Sundaram, I'd like to begin with you on what exactly the DMK's grouse is, because if you ask
12:14the BJP,
12:15and I'll come to Mr. Rajagopal in a bit, but if you ask the BJP, they constantly say, look, every
12:20state is getting their fair share.
12:21Tamil Nadu too will see an increase of about 20 seats.
12:24Well, the problem is just that, right? How they have tried to project delimitation, it's anything but fair, okay?
12:31There is an overall increase, that's what the delimitation bill says. This number of seats in the Lok Sabha is
12:36going up to 850.
12:38So, 815 for the states, 35 for the union territories. But beyond that, we have no idea, because the delimitation
12:44commission will ultimately decide.
12:46But the problem is this. Even if Tamil Nadu goes up by 20, our proportion, our share per capita or
12:53our percentage share in the overall parliament is set to reduce.
12:56And this is not just a Tamil Nadu problem. I'm glad we're discussing this on the eve of the Tamil
13:00Nadu elections.
13:00I have a problem with the fact that it is being introduced in the midst of a heated election battle.
13:06But be that as it may, we are still speaking for not just Tamil Nadu, but we're speaking for Karnataka,
13:12Kerala, Andhra, Telangana, Punjab, West Bengal, Odisha, many states.
13:17If you remember, Akshita, last year, the chief minister of Tamil Nadu held a conclave, which was attended by at
13:24least five other chief ministers from other states.
13:26And this is the issue that is being faced by not just us. And we've not been talking about this
13:31since day before, yesterday or a month ago.
13:33We've been speaking about this for almost three years now because we knew, and the rest of the country knew
13:38that 2026...
13:38But it was off to happen. Delimitation was to happen. It happens every once in a while.
13:43Twice. In 1975-76, the first delimitation freeze was conducted. Then in 2001, and I'll give credit to Mr. Vajpayee,
13:50he listened to the southern states and he said,
13:52we will not punish them for listening to the directives of the national government. And therefore, he extended the freeze.
13:59So it was not fait accompli.
14:00But of course, this government, the union government, it's hard to expect them to consult and confer with other colleagues.
14:07So therefore, maybe it seems like a fait accompli, but there was always a chance that we could convince them
14:12to see better sense.
14:13Mr. Raj Gopal, would you like to respond in your opening comments? You know, the DMK is saying that the
14:17BJP is targeting southern states essentially, that they're being punished for ensuring a low fertility rate.
14:23Mr. Raj Gopal, would you like to understand the whole point? Because it's basic arithmetic. If you have to have
14:29women MPs in parliament, in larger numbers, and give women their due share in politics, then you need to have
14:37an increase in the number of seats in parliament.
14:40Today, the constitution says you can have only 550 seats in parliament, in Lok Sabha. No, that is the number
14:49which is available. But you can go up to a maximum of 550.
14:52That's what the constitution says. Unless you increase it from 550, how can you make a reservation for women? That
15:00is the basic issue.
15:01So if you have to increase it from 550 to whatever number, maybe 800, 850, 820, whatever, then you need
15:08to go for a constitutional amendment.
15:10That is exactly what is being done. And that's the whole point. If you want 33%, add it to 543,
15:18by which 543 becomes two-thirds.
15:22And another one-third gets added to it, then you come to a total of 825.
15:26But I think the problem they have, sir, is the manner of distribution. Which census are we going to look
15:30at? What are we looking at? What data?
15:32No, I think he just considered it's going to be an additional 20. That's not a problem with him. The
15:35problem is, he says, Mr. Bajpayee did a great job. He didn't exceed 550.
15:39But you see, if you want women's reservation, you have to exceed 550. That's the basic issue.
15:45Is that the issue? That is the issue.
15:51Why not give one-third of that to women? We've given one-third of that to Shedulka Shedultaip.
15:56I'll answer that. I'll answer that.
15:57So, 543 is 180. We can, in the next election, 2029, because that's what Article 334a, when it was inserted
16:03through the Women's Reservation Bill, says.
16:05After the next census, after the next delimitation, we agree.
16:07So, in 2029, we agree.
16:09No, sir, you've asked a question. Let him answer that question.
16:12Make the reservation for women, 33%, within 550, as is there in the Constitution.
16:19See, you must understand one thing. 543 is a number of seats in Parliament, in Lok Sabha.
16:25But that's not the number which the Constitution mandates.
16:27The Constitution says you can go up to a maximum of 550.
16:31Now, within 550, if you say I'm going to reserve 33% for women, you already have 14% women
16:38in Parliament, right, in Lok Sabha.
16:40It adds up to 50%, roughly, 33 plus 14, roughly adds up to 50%.
16:45Now, you take away 50% of 550, 275 will be women, and you're going to have only 275 men
16:52in Parliament.
16:53Fantastic. We welcome that.
16:55No, that's a great point. I'm happy with this, sir.
16:56No, no, no. Let's understand the point. Let's understand the point.
16:59Even now, you're going to have the same. You're going to have 825 or 850, whatever the number.
17:05Half of them are going to be women, because again you will have the 14% women coming back.
17:09You will have added another 33%. You will have again the same 50%.
17:13The whole reason is, we don't want to make the existing candidates suffer.
17:21The existing candidates will continue to contest. In addition, more candidates will contest, number one.
17:28Number two, the population of India has risen. The population of women has risen.
17:33So you naturally need to have more people in Lok Sabha. I don't understand what the problem can be.
17:38Whether it's 550 or 850, how does it make a difference to them?
17:41Mr. Ramraj, do you want to answer that? What is the Congress's contention here?
17:47We maintain the same 543 numbers. The idea is that in the manner it is being done now.
17:53Now we have the elections, upcoming elections in both West Bengal and Tamil Nadu,
17:57and suddenly calling for a special session is absolutely not right.
18:00And the second thing is, in 1993, the women's reservation was done for both Panchayat level and the municipalities.
18:07There was a brief discussion that took place for about 3-4 years.
18:11All the parties were called, convened, and there was a unanimous discussion and decisions were made.
18:17But here, the BJP is trying to somehow increase the proportion of seats based on the population.
18:25We are against the concept of giving representation based on the population.
18:30Why not?
18:31Because, I'll tell you, let me complete. See, I was silent when he was talking.
18:35So my point is, though the South Indian states have been controlling the birth,
18:41after 1952, if you look at the survey, all the South Indian states have worked well with the fertility rate,
18:47the literacy rate, the higher literacy enrollment ratio, and if you look at the infant mortality rate,
18:55we have had a good control, particularly the South Indian states.
18:58What I would like to say is that, we already have 129 seats.
19:02It is already, we are under-representing, you know, South India has an under-representation.
19:06If it is being increased by 50% or 100%, it is going to, you know, the value for South
19:13India will not exist in the system.
19:14Now, even if you go with the relative number, we look at the absolute.
19:19Relatively, if every state is given 50% increase, if you look at the absolute number,
19:24this North Indian states, the Hindi-speaking lands, will get more number of seats.
19:28Thereby, the BJP government, the Hindi-speaking lands, the BJP government will have, you know, advantage on that.
19:34So, they will not need South India's votes.
19:36Mr Raj Koppal, your response. And this is, you know, something that has been spoken of,
19:40that South India's share in parliament will come down to go 20% now, 21%.
19:44No, no, no, it's not. I don't think any one of them is referring to a possible reduction.
19:48What they are saying is, we will have an added 50% to the South.
19:52But, overall, let's say, UP has 80, it will go up to 120.
19:57Tamil Nadu has, say, let's say 40, for easy calculation, say 39.
20:00It will go up to 60.
20:02Now, 60 is smaller than 120, but similarly, 40 is smaller than 80, as it is today.
20:07But, if you want to pass a law in parliament, you go on the basis of percentages, not on the
20:12basis of absolute numbers.
20:14It's not that parliament will say, oh Lok Sabha, you need 300 people to pass a law.
20:17No. 50% of people present and voting.
20:20Two-thirds of the house. This is what the constitution says.
20:24So, it's again back to percentages.
20:25So, as you increase in percentage levels, it's going to make no difference at all.
20:30Okay, okay. I'll just come to you, sir.
20:32Let me give Mr Kovey Satyan a chance to respond here, particularly Mr Kovey Satyan, on the timing.
20:37The DMK, the Congress has raised that in the heat of an election campaign in Tamil Nadu,
20:42what was the need to have this special session?
20:44Your MPs had to go to Delhi now as a result of this, and so missing out on campaign.
20:48So, standing in front of the statue of St. Walluar, let me start with one of his Tirukural.
20:54He says,
20:58means that your outside cleanliness is because you take bath every day.
21:03But in your internal cleanliness is because you practice truth.
21:07Unfortunately, it doesn't fit well with the DMK and their allies and their ecosystem.
21:11If somebody want to write a book on Encyclopedia of Lies, there can be only one person who can write
21:16that book.
21:17That will be M.K. Stalin, headed by their allies and everybody.
21:20He only can write a book on Encyclopedia of Lies.
21:22It is not today morning delimitation was decided. It is not yesterday morning.
21:27It was decided 25 years ago, agreed by M.K. Stalin's father, Mr Karnani.
21:32So, anyways, it was on the cards. Everybody knew it 25 years ago.
21:35Now, what is the big deal in the timing?
21:38No, it is during elections.
21:38You are going to discuss one issue of…
21:40Ensuring all MPs who would have been in Tamil Nadu are now being dragged to Delhi in the heart of
21:45an election season.
21:46As if all MPs are on the ground, there are only three people who are rallying for DMK.
21:50Father, son and sister, that's all. And everybody are being chased away. They will be happy to go to Delhi.
21:55Every MLA, sitting MLA, every MPs are not able to set their feet inside the Constance.
22:00They are being chased away. They will be happy in Delhi, trying to paint a narrative that, no, no, we
22:04are being deprived.
22:05And this is what is happening. Our rights are gone.
22:07Every election time, you can see this kind of drama. Let me sum it up once.
22:11Empty vessels make more noises. Five years of empty governance, empty promises.
22:16But every state, every southern state is talking about this.
22:18So, let me expose the double standards of DMK now.
22:21One and a half years ago, DMK called for an all-party meet on delimitation.
22:25As a principal opposition, we took part in that. And we gave a suggestion.
22:28The representation of Tamil Nadu today stands at 7.2%, which is 39 out of 543 stands at 7.2%.
22:36At any given point of time, this representation should not change.
22:40Why did DMK didn't take this point intentionally in the minutes of the meeting?
22:45Why did they omit the suggestion given by the principal opposition, AIDMK?
22:49Why didn't they talk about this? Why didn't they acknowledge on this point?
22:52Now, why they are enacting a drama that AIDMK is silent?
22:54Absolutely. The good problem that ADMK has in this particular scenario is they have no loksa by MPs today.
23:02As it stands. So, they lost all 40 seats in Tamil Nadu and Pondicherry.
23:05So, it doesn't really affect them as much as it does.
23:07Ratsa by MPs?
23:08Yeah, a few of them.
23:08Mr. Imbudurai, etc.
23:10Exactly. There's a few of them. But, nevertheless, this is an important question, right? With regard to 7.2%.
23:16See, we have asked through a joint action committee, which we formed through not just the DMK, but across various
23:22parties.
23:22We've submitted a memorandum to the President last year. We submitted a memorandum to the Home Minister last year.
23:27They've not called us for a single meeting. Be that as it may, they're very busy, right?
23:31But, this is the fundamental problem with the BJP and I'll attack the logic that has just been made, right?
23:36For 50 years, different states, again, this is not about Tamil Nadu, this is not about ADMK, DMK.
23:41Different states who have invested in social infrastructure, who have invested in literacy, who have invested in ensuring female labour
23:49force participation has risen to the highest standards that it could.
23:53They are being punished. It's like a principle saying, you know, please study hard, Akshita, and do well, and you
23:59do that, and you come to the first mark in your class, but you've been asked to now stand outside.
24:04This is the simple way to understand. And I think, like I said, there is no basis to what Mr.
24:10Rajakopal has said. I have a lot of respect for him.
24:12But, in this regard, there's no basis for what he has said. They have not said it will increase by
24:1650%. It's not there in the bill at the moment.
24:19They've left it all to the Delimitation Commission. Now, the question is, why should we trust a Delimitation Commission, which
24:25is going to be headed by somebody else, right?
24:27This can be solved. It can be sorted by a simple solution, which is anathema to BJP's inherent logic.
24:34But here, I may place it for their consideration, which is that, why don't they just call for a meeting
24:38of all the state chief ministers, right?
24:40And why don't they call for a consultative mechanism or create a mechanism to bring into conference and tell what
24:47Mr. Rajakopal has said.
24:48It will only increase by so much, and the proportion will remain. They have not done that.
24:53My explanation from my friend Manu is, you had called for an all-party meeting. We were the principal opposition.
24:59We gave the suggestion, let's not compromise on the representation of 7.2%.
25:03Why did you omit, is my question. Why didn't you acknowledge it? Why there were no statements?
25:08Even when you take down, these are all the resolutions passed in the all-party meeting.
25:11Why did you omit the suggestion given by us as a resolution?
25:15When you point a finger at others saying that we can't trust the committee, we can't trust how it is
25:19going to span out.
25:20But we gave a solution.
25:21Despite whether we have no zero locks of MPs or four or five, why did you leave our suggestion out?
25:27If 7.2% were to stand today, out of 850, we would have got 61 MPs.
25:31We gave a solution. We didn't play petty politics like you.
25:34It goes without saying. It doesn't need Manu, but I will say it out in front of everybody on India
25:38today.
25:38We stand for ensuring that Tamil Nadu's proportion is not taken by one bit.
25:45Whether it is 7.19%, as he rightly said, or anything.
25:49No, but that's what he's telling you. That's the solution.
25:51No, no. We had asked for very many different things. I'll tell you. I'll come to that, Satyan.
25:55Firstly, we had asked for a consultative mechanism to be set up, one.
25:59Secondly, we've asked, because there are different options, right?
26:01It's not a one solution fits all.
26:03We've asked for the Parliament to be, a special committee to be constituted.
26:09We've also asked for them to come and talk to different states.
26:12We've also asked for an extension of the freeze. We've given very many options.
26:16It's not just a 7.19%.
26:18So you've taken that option?
26:19100%. We are all together on this.
26:22So then, there is no statement.
26:23He says we're all together.
26:24No, there is no concurrence from their party leader.
26:26I'm the chief minister of the state.
26:28See, let me tell you how this goalpost gets shifted.
26:30Today, they agree, saying that 7.2%, we are okay with it.
26:33Now comes the question, should that be a representation of population,
26:36or it should be any other metrics, as stated by their ally, Congress.
26:3966 years since independence, as in any one given point of time,
26:44Congress and their ally have brought in this debate inside the Parliament,
26:46that should not be based on population.
26:49It should be based on other metrics like GDP.
26:50Ask him to cite one example, where it was brought in the house for discussion.
26:54That's why we are calling, we are...
26:56You know, demanding the BJP to call for an all-party meeting, have a discussion.
27:01No, but why didn't you do it previously, is what Mr. Kovac Sattit said?
27:03Because it has only come up in 2026.
27:05There are 50 of these.
27:05Now, see, it was valid till 2001.
27:07Then, during the watch-by period, it was postponed to 2026.
27:10For two 25 years' term, it was postponed.
27:13And now it is due for discussion and delimitation.
27:15No, he's referring to the terms and conditions.
27:17In 2023, September, the resolution was passed.
27:20We gave, you know, votes for 33% reservation for women.
27:25We are open to it.
27:26We want to have a discussion.
27:27That's what we are saying.
27:28You cannot arbitrarily, unilaterally go and, you know, present a bill and do whatever you want.
27:33We don't want that to happen.
27:34This is a democratic country.
27:36We have stake in everything.
27:38And we are representing the people of Tamil Nadu.
27:41I pity Mr. Satyan and Mr. Rajya Gopal because they are against, they are causing injustice to the people of
27:47this state.
27:47Thanks for your pitiless.
27:48Show that pity to the people of Tamil Nadu.
27:49If I was there, I would not agree to 7.2%.
27:51Instead, we should get more proportion of this thing.
27:55No, on what basis is that?
27:56On basis what I listed everything.
27:58See, a state like you, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar is getting 6 rupees and 15 rupees against 1 rupee GST
28:07they pay.
28:07It's because they have increased the population and we have been controlling the population and that's why we have been
28:13getting a lesser amount of GST.
28:14This is a constant narrative.
28:15So why they would get more representation again?
28:192001.
28:19That's my question.
28:20The deal limitation was pushed for 25 years.
28:22From 2004 to 2014, 10 years Congress and DMK were an ally.
28:27I am surprised to hear a statement from the Congress spokesperson here saying that we don't have no avenues to
28:32bring in a bill because it's a democratic country.
28:35You can bring in a bill on representative act.
28:37You can bring in a bill on delimitation act.
28:39You can bring in a bill on delimitation act.
28:40It is there were always possible on the law.
28:42My dear friend, let me complete.
28:44My dear friend, let me complete.
28:45There were all the more avenues to bring those and it has already done.
28:49Constitution was changed more than 50 times by Congress in the 66 years.
28:54It is democratic process.
28:55Everybody agreed to it.
28:56No, it is.
28:57If you want any other parameter to be included, you were an ally with DMK and you were running the
29:02government with the mercy of DMK.
29:04From 2009 to 2014.
29:06But your interests were only family, not the people, not the state of Tamil Nadu.
29:09Mr. Mr. Raj Gopal.
29:10Yes.
29:10The question particularly about, you know, how Tamil Nadu is being punished perhaps for fertility rate, for a population being
29:16controlled.
29:16I don't think Tamil Nadu being punished at all.
29:18I think the union home minister is on record to have said that there will be a pro-rata increase
29:23in the number of seats, which means Tamil Nadu gets an additional 50%.
29:27That's exactly what Mr. Manu also mentioned.
29:29So, there is no dispute regarding that.
29:31The question is not about whether Tamil Nadu will get 7.2%.
29:35I think that's a given.
29:37The problem here is, is Tamil Nadu, do we agree for this increase?
29:43My point is, if you don't agree for the increase, what happens is, your existing candidates in all parties will
29:49not be able to stand for election, many of them next time.
29:52To avoid that situation all over the country, that is the reason why we are adding to the number of
29:58seats in Parliament.
29:59Suppose you retain the number, suppose there is a freeze at 550.
30:02Then what happens is, 275 women automatically.
30:05So, no male candidate can stand against those 275 seats.
30:08Then you have 275 because I am talking about…
30:10But that's equal representation, sir.
30:12So, what's wrong with that?
30:13I have no problem with that.
30:14But…
30:15But your party has a problem.
30:16No, no, no.
30:18My party has no problem.
30:19Your party will have a problem.
30:20His party will have a problem.
30:22All of them have problems because they have so many male candidates.
30:24So, let's not be so considerate, sir.
30:26No, no.
30:26Let's understand one thing.
30:28Let them…
30:29See, the easier solution was…
30:30The easier solution was…
30:32No, no.
30:33There was an easier solution all the time.
30:35That every party puts up 33% candidates as women.
30:39I mean, let their candidates only be women.
30:42But that has not been done by any political party.
30:44If that had been done, there was no need for this.
30:46Today, this has become necessary and the government has to bring in a constitutional amendment
30:50to enable women to come to Parliament because no political party is giving due representation to women.
30:55You've raised…
30:56Including the DMK and the Congress.
30:57So, Manu Sundaram, do you want to respond to that?
30:59Okay, keep aside delimitation for a moment.
31:01Let's talk about women's reservation.
31:02Have parties done enough for that?
31:05Yeah, including the DMK?
31:06No, no party has.
31:07Including the DMK, including the ADMK, the BJP or the Congress.
31:10So, there is a need…
31:11Absolutely.
31:11You don't agree?
31:12Absolutely.
31:13Let me complete.
31:13How many…
31:14What is the representation?
31:15I'm saying, it is our leader, Amma, who set the example first in India to give 50% reservation
31:19for women in local body elections.
31:21Is it followed?
31:21That is the standing example.
31:23Right now, in this assembly election, Kovai Satyan, in this assembly election, how many
31:27candidates are women put up by AIDMK?
31:29We need to bring in more aspirants from the women hold.
31:32If tomorrow you come to an AIDMK and fight for it, you will be duly recognized.
31:36I…
31:36Let's encourage that climate first.
31:37I can add one.
31:38Let's encourage that climate first.
31:39I don't think you should keep up.
31:40I don't think you should keep up.
31:4133% to 50%, our leader increased in the local body elections.
31:45She set an example.
31:46We walk the talk.
31:47But that's not currently.
31:48But that's after reservation came in.
31:50My dear friends, we said…
31:51After 50%, reservation has come in.
31:53Now, with regard to the assembly…
31:55We set the trend.
31:56No, no.
31:56With regard to the assembly…
31:5733% to 50% is not an easy job.
31:58You couldn't even conduct a local body elections for the last two years.
32:00With regard to politics as a whole, and I speak for everyone, right?
32:04And I take, as a DMK spokesperson, I also say that DMK has also not done enough for women,
32:10in terms of representation.
32:11We must first accept the problem, right?
32:14Instead of framing this as if, oh, what if they…
32:16So, what's the ideal solution to the DMK?
32:18Absolutely.
32:19So, the ideal solution is, there's no point in waiting for political parties to increase.
32:24Only, I will give this credit where it's due.
32:26Only Trinamul Congress under Mamata Banerjee has, I think, repeatedly, consistently posted…
32:31Ensured, yeah.
32:32…40 or 45 or 50%, right?
32:34No other party has.
32:35So, it requires a law.
32:37It requires a law for us how…
32:39That's exactly what you're doing.
32:40So, therefore, but I oppose this framing of the law as if like, oh, but what if the male MPs
32:45suffer, right?
32:46And this big, you know, worry that what if suddenly 50% women come in?
32:50This is their right.
32:51No, we're not saying that.
32:52No, they need to come in.
32:53We're not saying that.
32:54Allow me to finish my point.
32:55We've kept almost, you know, women at 10-12% unfortunately for the last 75 years.
33:01This is the time to change that, right?
33:02Okay, Mr. Raj Gopal.
33:03Now, I think this needs a little more of explanation because people are refusing to understand the true situation.
33:11Today, what is parliament?
33:13What is Lok Sabha?
33:13Any bill has to go through the Lok Sabha?
33:15Sure.
33:16Any bill has to go, you have to get a two-thirds majority in the parliament?
33:20Yeah.
33:20Now, how will you get the two-thirds majority with so many men being there and knowing fully well they
33:25are not going to be there for the next election?
33:27Will any party guarantee that their MPs will not vote against the bill?
33:33That is the reason you need to bring in the men around because you need to bring in the men
33:36around.
33:36No, but even now, I don't think we have the support, sir.
33:38I don't think that the BJP has the support.
33:40The government doesn't have that support.
33:42You see, what we have now done is, we are adding to the number, making it the least possible, you
33:47know, harmful.
33:48You know, see, the point is, you must look at the path of least resistance.
33:52If you go through a particular way, like say, oh, I retain 550.
33:55I need two-thirds of the men in parliament voting for it now today, for the women to come in.
34:00But we're not seeing that.
34:01The men are not going to vote.
34:01The men right now, either way.
34:03The men will vote provided their stakes are not hurt.
34:06If they are going to be able to come back.
34:08So, they will make it.
34:09No, let me finish the point.
34:10What do you like?
34:10Let me finish the point.
34:11Men who have kept women out should be tried to fight to let women back in.
34:15No, no, no.
34:15This is not fair.
34:16No, no.
34:16Can you, no political party.
34:18No, but you have to change.
34:19There is one sentence.
34:20I think the point will be clear.
34:21You see, 550.
34:23Let's assume we have 500 male MPs today and 40 or 45 female.
34:28Now, these 500 people will have to vote for a bill to bring another 250 women into parliament.
34:34Yes.
34:35Now, that was already done in 1992.
34:37That was already done in 1992.
34:37Now, one second.
34:37Which political party?
34:39No, no.
34:40Which political?
34:40No.
34:41Local bodies you can do anything.
34:42Now, the assemblies are in Lok Sabha.
34:44That's where the bulk of the power is.
34:46Now, if these MPs are going to vote for bringing another 250 women MPs into parliament, we would
34:52have had no problem.
34:53They are not even willing to allow the women to stand for election.
34:57How are they going to allow women to come into parliament?
34:59Sir, now that you have made this proposal where, you know, you are saying that male candidates
35:03remain untouched, that they continue to be able to contest the election, you are saying
35:07it will be passed?
35:07I think the number of women will come.
35:08You are saying it will be passed, sir, this bill?
35:10You need two-thirds support.
35:10We are hoping.
35:10We are hoping for the best.
35:12We are hoping for the best.
35:13That's why we need support and cooperation and the, you know, the benevolent gestures
35:19of these political parties.
35:20Closing comments.
35:21Please take over, sir.
35:22...whether women represents the parliament or local body.
35:25Because they always state women as proxies.
35:27That's what I've seen in their culture itself.
35:29They say in big that we need reforms.
35:31We need representation from women.
35:32The face for the GMT in Delhi is Kani Muri.
35:35No, at the same time they are being made as proxies.
35:38Kani Muri is intentionally kept in Delhi because she doesn't become a threat for Uday Nidhi
35:41by contesting in MLA in assembly.
35:43It's as simple as that.
35:45It doesn't matter whether you go walk the talk.
35:49What matters is a reform has to be genuine in nature and it should empower women.
35:54Exactly.
35:54And with this first step, it's a good step.
35:56Let's acknowledge that.
35:57Mr. Ramraj, quickly.
35:58What I could see from Mr. Rajogobal's statement is that it clearly indicates a patriarchal mindset.
36:04No, I have said nothing.
36:04Yes, sir.
36:05Let me complete it.
36:06Okay, okay.
36:07You are patriarchal.
36:08It clearly indicates a patriarchal mindset.
36:10Absolutely wrong.
36:10So, they might as well go with this 545 numbers and have 33% reservation.
36:15Fine.
36:15The hidden agenda behind redistribution and increasing the number of seats is that once the number
36:21of seats are increased, for them to pass any simple majority in the Lok Sabha will become
36:25very easy because the South Indian state will lose their strength.
36:28They are already weak, they are already weak, we will further weaken so that any bill that
36:33come to Lok Sabha will be easily passed.
36:35See, this is not going to be easily passed.
36:35That's the idea.
36:35That's all.
36:36Simple.
36:36This is not going to alter the structure of parliament at all.
36:38It's only going to increase numbers.
36:40Second, now to say that patriarchal and all that is absolutely wrong because Congress
36:45could not get this women's reservation bill into parliament.
36:49I mean, they couldn't get it passed in parliament for 10 long years.
36:51They tried thrice and failed all the three times.
36:54They could not even get the bill passed.
36:56We have got the bill passed.
36:57Now we are getting in a constitutional amendment so that actual elections take place enabling
37:02representation of women.
37:04Okay.
37:04For way too long women have been used as proxies for something else, Akshita.
37:10Everyone in Tamil Nadu and rest of India can see through this ploy of the BJP, right?
37:14Women reservation has already been passed.
37:16That's the reality.
37:17Today, they are saying pass delimitation immediately and the bogey that they are using is the women
37:23reservation.
37:24This is the strange.
37:25They have conflated it.
37:27The original women reservation.
37:28I agree.
37:28I agree that the timing, the details have all changed.
37:31There is no doubt about that.
37:32But it was always coupled.
37:34No.
37:34It was coupled with the next census.
37:36When was the last census?
37:37The last census was 2021.
37:39I agree.
37:39The details have changed.
37:40Why have they not conducted the last 2021 census?
37:42No idea.
37:43No answer.
37:45See, ultimately we are all in this together.
37:48We all support women's reservation.
37:49It was passed unanimously.
37:51I am just disappointed and sad that my friend from ADMK is not supporting us on delimitation.
37:56Okay, forget it.
37:57Like I said, this is not an ADMK, DMK show.
37:59Like I said, I am not even speaking for only DMK.
38:01I am speaking for Tamil Nadu, Karnataka.
38:03All the states that have actually done what they were supposed to do in reducing population,
38:09investing in women education and so on and so forth.
38:11So that is my disappointment.
38:13But I am sure that none of these bogies will survive because people can see through it
38:17and that women should not be used as a ploy.
38:20We are all for women's reservation.
38:21It can be done at 543 and do not frame this as some largest that is being given to women.
38:25It is their right and they should have it today.
38:27Fifty percent I agree with, sir.
38:28Fifty percent.
38:32He is disappointed in ADMK because his leader has not acknowledged the suggestion given by
38:36us which is the most ideal and workable solution by not reducing the representation of 7.2.
38:42So I thank Manu for agreeing for it.
38:44I urge him to talk to his leader MK Stalin to make a statement saying that the suggestion
38:48given by ADMK is agreeable and we welcome it.
38:52If you go by what they say, you cannot have women's reservation in 2029.
38:58It is going to be pushed off to 2034 and that is exactly what the BJP does not want.
39:03We want elections in 29 with 33 percent women's reservation.
39:08Okay.
39:09Quickly, sir.
39:10Just a few seconds.
39:11Even now the central government, the BJP could call for all party meeting, have a discussion
39:15and it should be done in a fair manner, not by just proportionate increase of number of seats.
39:21Because the absolute strength of North India and East India will increase.
39:24That will actually become an advantage for the BJP.
39:27So we want it to be discussed and it has to be done in the basis of fertility rate, infant
39:33mortality rate, literacy rate and on whatever disciplined achievements that have been done
39:39by the South India State, that has to be given merit.
39:41I will only say this, as the only woman in the panel who ensures that this doesn't become
39:46a manner, as it's popularly called.
39:48Every one of you is guilty of not ensuring adequate representation of women.
39:52I am the representation of women.
39:54We are the first party to welcome you to our party as well.
39:58No, no, no.
39:58Please, Mr. Parvi Satya, please.
40:00Someone will clip this and then that's it.
40:01I will be targeted non-stop.
40:03Thank you all so much for joining us.
40:05Thank you for joining us here on the special edition of Super 6.
40:07Tomorrow, we start off with, of course, that special parliament session.
40:11We'll see what plays out.
40:13But for now, this has become a big bore of contention in the southern states, particularly
40:17in poll-bound Tamil Nadu, as you just witnessed.
40:19There's an all-out MGR legacy battle that's playing out in poll-bound Tamil Nadu.
40:25On one hand, you have Vijay constantly saying that like MGR, he'll seal a mega victory in
40:30this election.
40:31Amid that, Prime Minister Modi, who's in Tamil Nadu today campaigning, also paid a tribute
40:36to MGR in Kanya Kumari.
40:39D.K. Shuf Kumar has spoken out on Vijay, saying there's no second MGR.
40:44There was only one, the one and only MGR.
40:46There's no question of Vijay being like MGR.
40:49So while you've got all of this politics playing out, there's tributes pouring in from
40:53every single leader, knowing full well the emotion, the sentiment connected to MGR in
40:59Tamil Nadu.
41:00Decades on, his legacy clearly lives on, and that's why every party is trying to make
41:05the most of the MGR legacy.
41:07You have the AIA-DMK, the BJP trying it, with Prime Minister Modi also paying tribute
41:11to Dr. MGR today in Kanya Kumari.
41:14Vijay has constantly done it, including today.
41:16When metres away, he campaigned, he went ahead and held up portraits of MGR again.
41:21Let me bring in Pramod Madhu for more details on this.
41:24Pramod, important messaging from every side right now and tells you how relevant even decades
41:28on MGR remains in Tamil Nadu politics.
41:34Well, it surely is, Akshita.
41:35Very interestingly, you need to see that now D.K.
41:37Shukumar is a person who is actually bringing out all the guns and all these attacks against
41:41Vijay.
41:41Not just this is not the first time, but the second time.
41:43He is doing so earlier while he was sharing the stage with Chief Minister MGR Stalin.
41:46He very clearly said that one kind of leader, a new actor, a new party actor led by an actor,
41:52is trying to confuse the people and now he says that Vijay is absolutely not MGR.
41:56And we are currently at one location where the DMK event is happening at Salem and here
42:00the Chief Minister amidst all this is very clearly going to hold a rally with 30,000 people.
42:04And as he exactly mentioned, when it comes to Tamil Nadu, MGR plays a very important role
42:08and what TBK claims is that though they claim that Vijay is not MGR, all the kind of use
42:14and cues and all the kind of intonations are being given by their leaders that Vijay is
42:18going to be the next MGR.
42:20Will it happen so?
42:21We have to wait until 4th of May, Akshita.
42:25Okay.
42:27All right.
42:27Thanks, Pramodh.
42:28We'll track all the updates that come in from Salem where Pramodh is tracking the
42:32Chief Minister's mega rally.
42:34So we'll keep an eye out for those developments here on India today.
42:37We promise to get you every update that comes in from poll-bound Tamil Nadu.
42:41But I'm wrapping up this special broadcast from Chennai.
42:44We'll continue getting you all the latest updates from this poll-bound state,
42:48focusing on the special discussion in Parliament and the big debate that's broken out here in
42:54Tamil Nadu over that special session.
42:56We'll continue getting you all of those updates here on India Today.
42:59For the moment, thanks very much for tuning in.
43:01Nandri.
43:20We'll see you next time.
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