- 3 weeks ago
The Hollywood Reporter exclusively speaks with Chloé Zhao, who is Oscar-nominated for best director and best adapted screenplay for 'Hamnet,' and the producing quintet who share in the film’s best picture nomination — Hera Pictures' Liza Marshall, Neal Street Productions' Pippa Harris and Sam Mendes, Amblin's Steven Spielberg and Zhao's partner at Book of Shadows, Nicolas Gonda —about their journey with the project.
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00:00Hi, I'm Scott Feinberg from The Hollywood Reporter and I'm so happy to be joined today by a lot of the
00:05key people behind Hemnet. We have with us writer, director...
00:10co-executive, executive producer, co-editor Chloe Zhao and...
00:15her producers, the all-star team of Liza Marshall, Pippa Harris...
00:20Nicholas Gonda, Sam Mendes, and Steven Spielberg. Thank you guys for convening for...
00:25And I guess just to kind of go back to the beginning of how this...
00:30all started, maybe Liza, you can lead us off just in...
00:35in terms of talking about, you know, such a key part of what producing is...
00:40is finding and securing great material. How did this MAGO...
00:45Feral novel first even cross your radar? And what was your immediate...?
00:50response to it?
00:52Um, hi. Well, I was sent it by...
00:55her agent before it was published back in 2019 and I was a huge fan of Maggie's writing...
01:00because I'd read, I think, all of her other books. So I sat down and read it pretty quickly.
01:05And I guess it just had such a profound emotional effect on me, um, as a...
01:10I've got two boys myself and I guess it's...
01:12it's obviously your absolute worst nightmare, this...
01:15story, but I guess what the book did and I think what Chloe's done in such an extraordinary way is bring us...
01:20a sense of hope to the... to the... you know, and it has such a profound effect. So I think...
01:25for me it was about the kind of profound effect of storytelling to help us through dark times.
01:30And when you were reading it, uh, were you even then thinking immediately...
01:35are there cinematic possibilities here or did you, you know, did you have to kind of ponder?
01:40I mean...
01:40Maggie's written other, as you say, other things that you've enjoyed but didn't make into a movie. So what were...
01:45when did it click that this could be... could be one?
01:48I guess straight away. I just completely...
01:50completely loved it. So I... I just always go on my gut and I just love the book and...
01:55called up her agent the next day and got on Zoom with Maggie and she let me buy the rights. So it was... yeah.
02:00Yeah, it was great. Great. Yeah.
02:02Uh, Pippa, you and Sam have been partners at Neal Street.
02:05I think since 2003, is it? Um, and, uh...
02:10a lot of the... many special films you've made have been period pieces.
02:15Is that purely coincidental or is that something you guys are particularly drawn to?
02:19Uh...
02:20I actually think it's coincidental, although now when I look at our slate, I think maybe...
02:25maybe that's all we're obsessed with. But, um, but no, it's... it's purely coincidental.
02:30But this... this is obviously a very difficult period in terms of production because...
02:35so little exists still in the UK in terms of those... the buildings that... that show...
02:40Shakespeare would have seen. A lot of them got burnt down in the Great Fire of London.
02:44So...
02:45you know, this one presented particular challenges in terms of finding the architecture, but also because...
02:50I think Chloe felt strongly and rightly that she wanted to film far away from life...
02:55London, that she wanted to find a forest which really felt like it was absolutely in the middle of nowhere.
03:00Um... which of course is a bit of a producer's worst nightmare because you're thinking...
03:05how many overnights, but of course what it brought to the film was this extraordinary sense...
03:10of... of reality in terms of that natural environment. Um... it was a place called...
03:15Lidney Forest in Gloucestershire and it was just a really extraordinary find and I think...
03:20Chloe just fell in love with it and we all did.
03:23So I want to just...
03:25gradually connect the dots here of how the whole team came together. So Liza, you...
03:30you mentioned you'd read it in uh... I guess Galli's form and then uh...
03:35how did you and... and this question to Pippa as well... how did you guys connect initially?
03:40Well we... I... I read the book when it was published and of course... you know... phoned the agent...
03:45up and they said you're too late. Liza Marshall's already got this book. Um... but Liza...
03:50Liza and I used to work together a long time ago before we set Neal Street up and her stage...
03:55taker's called Analhouse... from Mobilty...
03:56careers... fullyimate...
03:57and so I phoned her up and said do you fancy teaming up?
04:00TAN хозя stiffed...
04:01TAN хозяいます...
04:02TAN moonshade...
04:03TAN N Wishbone...
04:04Liza and Kit...
04:05TAN AL registrated...
04:06가�ildo...
04:07TAN helpheld...
04:08TAN X...
04:09TAN H...
04:10TAN wi 증on...
04:11TANJAM...
04:12TAN H...
04:13TAN星...
04:14TAN FANH...
04:19TANH...
04:24Love to hear your first impressions of the material and then also a bit more about how that that.
04:29That long history with Steven, I think it really, truly goes back to the beginning of your film career, right?
04:34It does. Yeah, Steven is the beginning of my film career, really.
04:39The book, I was always struck by something that...
04:44I was lucky enough to work with Harold Pinter, the playwright, when he was still alive and I did...
04:49He plays with him and I remember catching him off guard, which was...
04:54When he had a few glasses of wine, generally, and saying to him, which is your favourite...
04:59And he said, oh, The Homecoming. And I said, oh, why? And he said...
05:04It's all a question of shape, he said. And I said, because I thought he was...
05:09A little drunk, he might tell me the truth. What shape is The Homecoming?
05:13And he said, oh, it's this.
05:14And that's it, he said.
05:19And...
05:19And I've always loved the idea that something literary can be a physical shape.
05:24And when I read Hamlet, Hamlet, excuse me, not Hamlet, Hamlet...
05:29It's quite different. Hamlet, for me, was not...
05:34A television series, it was not a four-part series, it was not a BBC adaptation, it was not...
05:38It was a movie...
05:39It had the shape of a movie, it had the simplicity at its...
05:44It's core of a movie, but it also felt to me like it needed another one.
05:49That authorial voice, because the voice of the book is very internal.
05:54And so I felt it needed an artist.
05:56And I fancy myself an artist, I thought maybe...
05:59Maybe I should do this.
06:00But I have a lot of associations with Elizabethan.
06:04England, as Pippa says.
06:06I come from the theatre, I've directed a lot of Shakespeare, I know...
06:09I know it very well.
06:10Or as well as one ever knows those incredible bottomless...
06:14works.
06:15But I felt like it needed someone...
06:19who was going to make the familiar strange again, if you know what it is.
06:24I mean...
06:25I don't know who it was who said it's the job of the artist to make the familiar...
06:29strange and the strange familiar.
06:31It didn't feel like me.
06:34But I felt it should be a movie, and I felt like maybe Stephen might be...
06:39in Stephen's wheelhouse, you know, having persuaded Liza to let us...
06:44take it as a group to ambling.
06:46And I know Stephen wrestled with it in the...
06:49the same way I did.
06:50You know, is this...
06:51For me, it feels like it's a movie.
06:53I know it's a movie.
06:54But it didn't feel like it was...
06:57it was for us.
06:59And...
06:59and I think at the end of the day, one of the magical things about this whole process...
07:03and...
07:04and I quote Alejandro Iñárritu who says,
07:07I think it's making a movie...
07:09a movie is easy.
07:10Making a good movie is...
07:11is war.
07:13Making a...
07:14great movie is a miracle.
07:15And...
07:16and it's...
07:17this was one of those ones.
07:18And it happens rare...
07:19in LA particularly.
07:20You know, we've all been around for a while...
07:22and it's long enough to know that this doesn't happen.
07:24one of them.
07:25But Chloe is a bit of a miracle.
07:27You know, and she made a miraculous film.
07:29And...
07:30and so it's very easy for me in hindsight to say,
07:32oh, I saw this as a movie and I saw...
07:34a brilliant auteur filmmaker coming in and making it...
07:37but it actually happened.
07:40And I think we're all sort of, you know...
07:42and all the weird birthing that...
07:44that goes on with auteurs and all the strange...
07:47other...
07:48viewpoints that...
07:49come with a great artist meeting another great artist...
07:52happened with Chloe.
07:53And...
07:54and...
07:55our job...
07:56my job...
07:57from then on...
07:58was to do ironically...
07:59what Stephen had done...
07:59for me...
08:00when I was first directing.
08:01As a producer...
08:02he taught me how to be a good producer.
08:04which is to protect the vision...
08:06to believe in the filmmaker...
08:07and to protect their vision.
08:09and...
08:10we are...
08:11although on the outside...
08:12very thick skinned...
08:13you know...
08:14foolish...
08:15types...
08:16we're all very vulnerable...
08:17and we're all very...
08:19fragile...
08:20at key moments...
08:21and those key moments...
08:23is when a great producer...
08:24steps in...
08:25the moment...
08:26when things are in the balance...
08:27perhaps...
08:28in the pre-production process...
08:29or the first cut...
08:30your first preview...
08:31or the first reviews...
08:32or whatever it is...
08:33that's...
08:34when they step in...
08:35and they go...
08:36I'm gonna look after you...
08:37I'm gonna make sure...
08:38your vision...
08:39you...
08:39cut out the white noise...
08:40you're able to cut out...
08:41the white noise...
08:42and to realise...
08:43what's really...
08:44what...
08:44what you really...
08:45want it to be...
08:46and that's really...
08:47all I felt my job was...
08:48and I know...
08:49that Stephen and I...
08:49talked about that...
08:50and protecting...
08:51listen...
08:52Chloe doesn't need protection...
08:53that's a...
08:54that's a cliche...
08:55but...
08:54any film...
08:55in the way that...
08:56any filmmaker needs...
08:57to be sort of...
08:58ring-fenced...
08:59and have their...
08:59vision...
09:00which is a very delicate one...
09:01preserved...
09:02that's what...
09:03that's what I felt we did...
09:04and so that...
09:05that was my journey...
09:06with the film...
09:07it's been a joyful one...
09:08from beginning to end...
09:09from reading the book...
09:09which was a joyful experience...
09:10to hearing Stephen's...
09:12passion...
09:13and enthusiasm...
09:14about it...
09:14when he read it...
09:15which made me feel better...
09:17about...
09:18forcing Liza...
09:19to...
09:20sort of like...
09:21go through this...
09:22difficult process...
09:23making a movie...
09:24is much harder...
09:24than making...
09:25a television series...
09:26these days...
09:27anyone would have...
09:28bought this...
09:29as a limited series...
09:29making it into a movie...
09:30an independent movie...
09:31with real vision...
09:32and real scale...
09:33that's much harder...
09:34and...
09:35I felt like...
09:36when he came on...
09:37I thought...
09:38yeah...
09:39we're gonna do this...
09:40this is gonna be a movie...
09:39whether it's...
09:40him or somebody else...
09:41and it turned out...
09:42it was the right person...
09:43and that was close...
09:44so it's been a...
09:44it's been a joy...
09:45from beginning to end...
09:46Steven...
09:47can you...
09:48pick up the story...
09:49about just...
09:49who wants to...
09:50I think at that point...
09:51it's now four of you...
09:52and then of course...
09:53we're gonna come in...
09:54a moment to...
09:54Nicholas and Chloe...
09:55but the idea of...
09:56that it...
09:57this...
09:58I mean...
09:59in some way...
09:59it would've...
10:00on paper...
10:01might've made sense...
10:02that this would be...
10:03something you would...
10:04be drawn to...
10:05you've worked with...
10:06children in movies...
10:07very successfully...
10:08you've done...
10:09period...
10:09pieces of...
10:10various different times...
10:11in history...
10:12but...
10:13what was it...
10:14that made you say...
10:14someone else...
10:15and specifically...
10:16what led you guys...
10:17as a group...
10:18to the idea...
10:19of...
10:20of Chloe...
10:21well...
10:22when Sam...
10:23sent me...
10:24the book...
10:24I was very excited...
10:26um...
10:27I...
10:28I read it...
10:29right away...
10:29and...
10:30my...
10:31my first...
10:32and I...
10:33I called Sam back...
10:34and I said...
10:34can I have two weeks with this?
10:35Because this isn't going to be an easy yes.
10:39It's going not, it's going to be, it won't be an easy no.
10:43And so I actually.
10:44I actually spent time not, not reading Shakespeare.
10:49Going back to some of my favorite plays or sonnets, but essentially.
10:54Looking for the drama in this and what is the theme of this and what.
10:59What part of me is going to be any good at this?
11:03And I'm.
11:04Very realistic about subject matter that I am not.
11:09As good for as other directors might be.
11:12And I.
11:14After wrestling with us for about a week, I called Sam back and I said, I want to make
11:18this with you.
11:19We want to make this with you, but I'm not the right choice.
11:24I had been a big fan of.
11:29supporter of Chloe, even though I never met Chloe until Nomadland.
11:34But I thought what was uncanny about Chloe is about for one thing.
11:39Chloe has an uncanny rapport with mother nature and.
11:44human nature, which is the essence of what Maggie.
11:49Carol wrote in her book.
11:51So Chloe came to mind.
11:54And we had been having lunches at Ambron.
11:58We're.
11:59We're, we're, we're, we're colleagues, we're friends.
12:01And during a lunch, I mentioned this.
12:04book to Chloe that I thought she should, she should take a look at because I could not.
12:09imagine anybody else really being able to have, I mean.
12:14she's the most, she's the most spiritually impact.
12:19she's the most empathic director I've ever worked for and I, and, and, and I'm, and I make a.
12:24fine point of using the term working for because a good producer.
12:29a good producer doesn't have the director work for them, a good producer works for the filmmaker.
12:33And I think all.
12:34all of us have that in common, the whole producing team on Hamnet, we all worked for Chloe.
12:39to ensuring Chloe would have the space and the safety.
12:44to take huge emotional risks with a story that ultimately proves.
12:49that there is life after grief and when Chloe signed.
12:54and then onto this thing, I, I just, I, I just felt that this was the way.
12:59nature had intended it to be.
13:00Well, and, and, uh, in terms of the.
13:04approach, well, first Nicholas, I wonder what you can help us hopefully connect some.
13:09dots here because I think, uh, Chloe, one of the many things she's.
13:14also, uh, great at has been sort of shooting these films beautifully and.
13:19magic hour, which somebody else has also.
13:21which somebody else has also kind of been associated with for.
13:24which somebody else has also kind of been associated with for.
13:24decades and that's Terrence Malick who you produced for before partnering with.
13:29Chloe, I think in 2023, can you just share, uh, you know, how.
13:34you and she came to team up and how this, uh, project, you know, how you guys discuss.
13:39this as it, as it came to you from, from these others, I, I, my understanding is that.
13:44it wasn't an immediate yes, for reasons that Chloe can, can explain, but I just.
13:49to get your, your, uh, historical perspective as well.
13:53Yeah.
13:54Of course.
13:55Chloe, Chloe and I started working together during the pandemic and it was at a time where.
13:59both were entering new chapters of our life and, and trying.
14:04to set new intentions and we did so through the container of a company book of shadows.
14:09uh, and it gave us a lot of time, both producing together, reflecting on.
14:14what we had done that we wanted to continue new, new experiences we wanted to start.
14:18um.
14:19and really thinking about making decisions that we wanted to live with, you know, so often you can make.
14:24decisions and you live with them and you're like, why did I do this in the first place?
14:26So we've been very patient to build this container.
14:29to build this river bed, but not to force water down it right away.
14:32And so.
14:33um.
14:34it, it, it, yeah, at first when, when Chloe went to tally ride and had that discussion with Stephen.
14:39it, it, yeah, at first when, when Chloe went to tally ride and had that discussion with Stephen.
14:39like any great hero, there was a, a rejection at first.
14:43um.
14:44but.
14:44but ultimately as Chloe started examining it more and reflecting on.
14:49what she was wanting to say and dive into as a storyteller.
14:52what we as a company had been.
14:53what we as a company had been.
14:54what we as a company had been.
14:54what we as a company had been wanting to express our, our name is book of shadows,
14:57our name is book of shadows.
14:58So much of that is exploring that Limital space.
14:59going to uncharted lands uncharted waters and trying to make sense and shine light in those
15:03places that may other
15:04wise inspire fear and misunderstanding and so the more that chloe looked at hamnet
15:09it it felt like this puzzle piece that that we had been looking for uh and then
15:14you know i think we all can relate to this in our different ways you know when and chloe says it's
15:19so beautifully that that you know when when it's time to make a movie when you really feel like
15:23it chose you
15:24and i think every step of the way with this film uh there were so many reminders that it was
15:29meant to be even before um any of the practicalities were in place so
15:34it uh it was one of those invitations we couldn't of course reject once we once
15:39we saw those signals once we heard those signals and chloe uh we've we've
15:44spoken before about this you've you've i think half jokingly used the term to describe your
15:49mindset at the time this came along as as being in the middle of a
15:54mid-life crisis of sorts uh you hadn't made a film for a few years um
15:59i think it ended up being four years between this and your previous one what was
16:04what was uh kind of um your mindset at the time you heard it
16:09about hamnet and and therefore what was the reason for the initial
16:14pause and then the decision to to actually do it
16:19um and i i failed in my 30s when i was making my first four found
16:24problems i was seeking horizontal connections and also that's how i learned
16:29film making is by you know going to as many places meeting people seeing as many films as
16:34possible and and then i made four films but then
16:39something shifted in my own life with my own body and as i i got older
16:44and experienced uh loss and and um i
16:49realized that i was hungry for a vertical connection and that's the connection
16:54connection with what's above what's below what's with the ancestors and most importantly with the depth
16:59of myself and i didn't have as much tools
17:11you
17:04and so for four years i was looking for that connection
17:06and then when hamnet came
17:09my initial pause was was that oh wow this
17:14could potentially be an experiment of how i want to make found
17:19differently not the content but how i want to do it
17:31you
17:24but then the fear kicks in both strategic
17:29like logistically like logistically and also in terms of how much material
17:34that's inside of me that's going to have to come out through this vessel can i hand
17:39this is this even possible because it feels so
17:44uh i can i can i can feel the energy of the planet because i've been
17:49hosting myself for four years and the seat it feels like the right seat is landing
17:54but then it's terrifying because the the growth is going to be so absolute because it's with
17:59the energy of the energy of the planet at that point i didn't know i had a container there isn't a
18:04for formula for a container for something like that so
18:09so a big part of it was was to look at this
18:14this team right now that you're seeing on the zoom call because a lot of times the container
18:19container is designed from a place of control and also fear
18:31you
18:24right and within that container it's going to choke the chaos that i've been swimming in
18:36you
18:29and that energy that's coming through not just mine jessie's my hod's every
18:34creative that i i've been pulling in our costume designer you know rdp
18:39everyone is i i you know that's coming together feels like it's at that place
18:44in their lives and what kind of container can hold something like this because
18:49you can't just have that k as it's entropy you can't also have the old
18:54container container because it's not designed to adapt to this way
18:59working you know we're working with our dreams jessie every morning would come to set with her
19:04her dreams and that would change the whole scene like what kind of container
19:09we have to design from scratch as an experiment so those were the very
19:14first conversation i had with everyone on this zoom call um kind of like a
19:19a little deer in the forest and going there must be another one
19:31you
19:24and then you know and and each one of them as you can tell
19:29that they come from very different experiences and i and and miraculously as
19:33nature intended this is the ecosystem this group of producers the perfectly
19:48you
19:38and i have an intuition about those things and i could tell and that gave started
19:43something to give me more confidence and then the more i speak to each one of them the more i realize
19:47that they they understand
19:48that they understand the essence of what i'm asking for and they then started
20:02you
19:53passionately with what they are good at to start building this new container
20:07you
19:58passionately with what they are good at to start building this new container that i think all of us is new for all of us
20:14and then that
20:16you
20:03the container started to to to to shape and form and there's there's trials and errors
20:21you
20:08and together
20:09and together these five producers and not just logistically also
20:24you
20:13creatively you know have some really extraordinary creative minds on this
20:18call and
20:27you
20:18is able to read my scripts and then just really i've got two notes
20:32you
20:23from them
20:24from them and then these two notes are just like this
20:27you know so so much about you
20:39you
20:28centralism like what is the essence i'm asking and then
20:32and then they were able to
20:33really without much of me needing to be involved started to not just
20:47you
20:38creating the container but also anticipating
20:42what the traditional container
20:52you
20:43might be problematic and anticipating and shaping the riverbank as a
20:57you
20:48flood of me and jesse and out of our hod's and the children are coming
20:52down like
20:53and then they're
20:53like building the riverbank as we go and really catching and allow the
20:58water to
20:58to like calm down and start going deep and doing the work
21:02and and i would say that
21:03the yes is not a yes but it's like a like
21:08moment by moment like a slow
21:10yeah
21:13well i think one of the things you've you've noted yourself is
21:18that in your prior
21:20excellent films you had not really had
21:23as a central character a mother character i mean it was or if if
21:28there had been it was someone who was not uh you know uh
21:33fully present in the way that you know
21:38uh she could have been so can you just talk about i think that sounds like it might have been part of
21:43the equation just reconciling for yourself the the idea of building a
21:48film around
21:48around a maternal character
21:50that's the second piece of why i had
21:53hesitated by the way i want to put it on record i didn't say no with stephen
21:57colin okay there's this
21:58story out there about that i was like that is not jeff caught me and i said let me think about it and there was so
22:03it was bad and then i met with stephen for for lunch so stephen just fyi does know what
22:08no you never said no you but what you did say was you said just based
22:13on the description of it for me you said it's very interesting yeah
22:18and i knew that wasn't a commitment but it was also not a
22:23no it's that it's that deer coming out from the woods from the bushes
22:28um i think scott what you're mentioning is yes it's a deep deep
22:33mother wound i think because of the feminine consciousness in all people have been
22:38so cast um cast um cast away and and destroyed for 10th of
22:43thousands of years so the mother wound is now just individual is collective and i feel
22:48i feel both deeply um and the reason why we call it mothership
22:53or motherland is because mother is not just about the
22:58person that gave birth to me but is is is an archetypal mother is usually
23:03the the system that holds us that we feel we can belong so
23:08in many ways my film sets can serve as a mother
23:13and we might very much call our village the mother and i and there's this
23:18there's there's there's a saying we in uh with our hod's and and our our
23:23our cats and crew we gather around the mother and that's not me but is this
23:28there's this energy of of being held by something
23:33bigger than us and unconditionally seeing unconditionally loved
23:38and supported and supported and supported and i i i i would say that our producing team
23:43served as the energy behind that
23:48mother that we could feel at the end of the day doesn't matter how
23:53we uh how many mistakes we make how vulnerable we are
23:58we know at the end of the day the mother will hold us unconditionally and experience
24:03the energy behind that that i did not have growing up and what the reason why i'm pausing
24:08is also because can i can i be opening my own wound
24:13and working so vulnerably because of this this topic
24:18if i don't have the mothership to
24:23hold me and and and good no getting to know these five i knew i could
24:28and also i knew they can hold jessie's and paul's and everybody else
24:33is as well i want to ask the five producers here to talk about
24:50you
24:38um some of the things you might have observed in terms of the way close
24:43of the way approach directing on this first of all we should note i think we have four
25:00you
24:48four percent of all the best director oscar winners in history here but tweeds
24:53steve and sam and chloe uh so we do uh we have a lot of
24:58that's pretty good that's that's living that's everybody but i mean it's a
25:03pretty good for interest here for from the directing side and also of course all the great films
25:08um from the producers here who who haven't um you know directed and i i
25:13just want to ask all of you though i mean you've seen you've your you yourself either
25:18have uh been the director or watched a lot of great directors um
25:23um it sounds like some of the techniques chloe brought to working with not just
25:28you
25:28the actors but the crew on on this project were were unconventional
25:33you
25:33maybe born out of that four-year period of thinking about things and rediscovering
25:38you
25:38yourself um i mean there were things that uh chloe you've shared with people
25:51you
25:43at film festivals like kind of starting the day with a group uh almost
25:48like guided meditation to get in a certain headspace that are behind the scenes
25:53photos of from the set of you you know lying down with jesse and
25:58in like a forest with a baby uh you know just on things that i don't
26:03you don't see everybody doing and so i just want to ask um uh maybe
26:08starting with steven and sam but uh but everybody here like had you
26:13seen anything like this before me no
26:18certainly
26:20certainly chloe's set is nothing like my set
26:23my sets are chaotic and they're noisy and everybody's talking it's like a
26:27robert altman movie
26:28on my set and on chloe's set it was like a family it was like a
26:33small village uh uh chloe just wants
26:38everyone to be present uh and that that's not just the people
26:43in front of the camera but but behind the scenes that dp and the production
26:47designer and her editor
26:48everybody involved in the making the movie she sort of you know encourages
26:53uh an honest presence about about being who you are
26:58not as who you are as the character of agnes or will or but but
27:03being who you are being who you are because that is the that is the the the
27:08the sort
27:08the source of the nile of every great performance is the person that
27:13mom
27:13and dad created that is the person that you tap into and then you draw the
27:17character from
27:18that
27:19and so she made i think everybody including me
27:23a producer
27:23and a visitor
27:24and a visitor on her set
27:25and a visitor on her set
27:25and a visitor on her set
27:26and a visitor on her set to be very safe that there's nothing
27:28anyone could do on hamnet that would fall into the category
27:33of having made a mistake i think with chloe there are no mistakes
27:38there are a lot of happy accidents but there are no mistakes and she she creates
27:43that village of of courage and taking risks
27:48and chloe is a great storyteller but she also makes everybody in
27:53that family feel like they they too have a great story to share not just a story through their
27:58characters but they share their own stories and and and i
28:03have never quite seen anything like this before and especially the the the
28:16you
28:08the confidence and the quiet and and even
28:12these weren't a lot of method actors
28:13that were playing these characters behind the scenes not just in front of the turning
28:18camera uh because after a take everybody fell back into themselves
28:24so so and that that was also very refreshing to see
28:26so so and that that was also very refreshing to see
28:28probably because liza was was on set every day yeah please liza and i mean yeah
28:33also if you if you care to speak to this i think we got a little perspective of how
28:38you know some might look at the story which is very sad and heavy in some ways and
28:43assume that the set was that and yet now thanks to a video that's going viral we
28:48we we know that's not the case maybe you can speak a little bit about that as well
28:52well i thought that
28:53it was unlike any set i've ever been on it was incredibly peaceful and nurturing
28:58and even though it was incredibly sad at times i think chloe's genius of doing the dance
29:03at the end of every week you know all the cast and the crew just allowed everyone to shake off
29:08the heaviness of the emotion in such a brilliant way like particularly for the children then what
29:13they could take away was the memory of dancing not the memory of you know dealing with death
29:18and it was just i don't know it was very relaxed and i mean it was i think it was very female
29:23female set and i think that feminine energy was just really special and
29:28that the moment i mean everyone's seen the the dance take at the globe but before that the
29:33the extras all the essays in the globe they'd all been led in a meditation
29:38to to allow them to go really deep to prepare them for the scene the last scene of hamlet
29:43hamlet and chloe was so amazed she got on the mic at the end to thank them and said they were like
29:48the trees in the forest and then this incredibly old lady got up and she took them
29:53mic and she said you know normally we're in the background but we really feel seen and then
29:58everyone was crying and it was just an incredibly emotional experience and i think that's how
30:03everybody felt
30:03everyone felt on that set everyone felt seen yeah just just to add to that i think
30:08you know a lot of people ask us well how do you achieve that and because ultimately a lot of people
30:13hope for that
30:13hope for that but it takes a lot of effort very specific effort to implement that type of
30:18structure that container and trust and chloe always knew from the beginning that you can't make a film
30:23about love in an environment that is harsh and transactional the process had to reflect
30:28reflect the story so on the on the first day of production chloe put a
30:33note on the call sheet and i actually have it written down because i think it's helpful for people to hear and
30:38uh so i'll read it we are all a part of an ecosystem like a forest where everything
30:43is interdependent and nothing is a mistake let's lean on each other be gentle with
30:48ourselves and also have a great time there was a shared understanding
30:53understanding that care wasn't a soft value it was a creative one and it would
30:58ultimately if you remove fear as a main motivation and you replace that with
31:03trust that it enables everybody to be braver and with that from the drivers
31:08to the every department head and on set in the production office there was this
31:13shared pulse that enabled everybody to lean on each other as opposed to worrying what
31:18what was around the corner and uh and from day one through the end that that really
31:23you felt that the moment you walked on set one of the things that was really
31:28one other thing that was really different for me and um sparing sam's blushes
31:33because i've obviously worked on a lot of his films but but because chloe's also an editor
31:38she she she can see the movie in her mind as she's shooting the
31:43scenes very very precisely so there are certain
31:48shots in the film um certain scenes which are just a single take at
31:53and of course as a producer you you're sort of saying oh chloe maybe you want uh some more cover
31:58coverage here don't don't and she'd be like no i don't i don't need more coverage
32:03and i'll be like okay no more coverage then um and and that
32:08i just think that for me was quite quite scary and and and quite unusual
32:13but ultimately when you look at the film now you can i i still see those certain scenes
32:18scenes where i think you were totally right you didn't need anything else you didn't need to close
32:23up i would say i would say i would say 60 percent time i was right there were 40 percent time
32:28like looking at the end i'm like oh you never learned don't you just listen to that
32:33i just want to humanize the situation okay like because there are times that just
32:38you just you just you just got to a point where you can't do it you know i said it's like your
32:42actors got to a point
32:43you're just like i i i'm down for the day but yes they probably should push for
32:57you
32:48one more angle uh but you know that's how you learn so yeah well
32:53we are uh we're up against the clock but i want to just quickly get in two last things
33:07you
32:58if i can um nicholas obviously chloe had
33:03a great
33:03great sounding board in the five of you but i understand that uh beyond that
33:08you
33:08the film has been shared with, of course, now with the whole world.
33:13Along the way with certain other valued sounding boards.
33:18And from the film community, and one of them, I believe, had some some.
33:23Feedback that you might be open to sharing with us.
33:27Yeah.
33:28Who you're referring to is Terry Malick, a great, you know, mentor, like a father.
33:33To me, a longtime friend of Stephen's and, you know.
33:38Somebody who, like Chloe, one of the things I really appreciate about both of them is that
33:43there's this lifelong commitment to listening and that includes to other artists.
33:48And to having space to be in awe of other artists' work.
33:53And so a few days ago, Terry wrote to me in that spirit and with his permission.
33:58Which is rare because he rarely is quoted in the public.
34:03But, but, but he's allowed me to read this.
34:07So I'll go ahead.
34:08Dear Nick.
34:08I watched Hamnet last night.
34:10My heart was in my throat the whole time.
34:13I felt shaken.
34:13It was shaken to the core.
34:15It was searing, wondrous.
34:17What a magnificent piece of work.
34:18Please tell Chloe and to the whole filmmaking team what we all know so.
34:23Well, what a wonderful film you all have made.
34:27Full of love.
34:28Tenderness, humanity, and compassion.
34:32Love, Terry.
34:33So, um, yeah, what, what, what, what.
34:38What meant the most to me was just the praise.
34:42It was the recognition.
34:43Of care that, you know, one artist can feel another artist's love inside of the work.
34:48And.
34:48And, uh, yeah, and as long as I've known him, I've rarely seen him speak.
34:53Speak up like that.
34:54Um, but I do remember when I was working with him, Stephen would do the same.
34:58For us, so it felt, uh, very rewarding.
35:02Scott, can I just.
35:03Yeah, one last thing, yeah.
35:05Please.
35:05I go around to panels and, you know, schools.
35:08And stuff and I ask a lot.
35:11Yeah, but how could you do this in.
35:13Because the film sets are so, you know, the, the process of making a film.
35:18There's so much fear around it to make the day, to make sure the film work.
35:23Like, how can.
35:23You know, all these things you're talking about.
35:25I, I sense, I was just at Sundance.
35:28So.
35:28So many filmmakers and producers are talking about, I can see them going like, we want this.
35:33But, we don't see it's possible for us.
35:37And.
35:38To also just state the obvious, there's a lot of, um, power.
35:43More people on this Zoom have.
35:46A lot of, uh, capacity.
35:48To, to, um, shield a lot.
35:53And, and, and for us.
35:55And in different ways.
35:57And I just want to point.
35:58To find out, and I, I said, that's how I answer to anyone who, who asks with that love, that kind of.
36:03Desperation, yearning, the people who are in power, who, people who have.
36:08The authority would have to give permission.
36:13To this way of experimenting.
36:16Or, or, to, to the.
36:18Truth that there is always another way to do things.
36:22And the people in.
36:23The position of leadership.
36:25And so, I just want to acknowledge.
36:28The, these five producers.
36:32For, um.
36:33To, um.
36:33Being the advocate of my madness.
36:38And, and, and, and, and to point out that the final scene in the Globe Theater.
36:43Was completely rewritten.
36:46Before he was shot.
36:47Like, two, three days.
36:48Before the last ten days.
36:50Because it doesn't just capture the whole.
36:53Shakespeare's family's experience.
36:55But also the experience of making the film.
36:58So we.
36:58We had to rewrite everything.
37:00And then the final ending.
37:01That, that, that the catharsis of the whole film.
37:03Didn't show up until four days before we wrapped.
37:06When we already shot the ending.
37:08And for me to show.
37:08To show up on set.
37:09And to just say.
37:10This, we throw everything away.
37:12This is what we're gonna.
37:13Do there was zero resistance.
37:17Even our.
37:18The PD, you know, and, and the producers that were there.
37:22They don't even need to check with.
37:23Anybody with focus.
37:24Because we know we are protected.
37:27The temple is protected.
37:28In every possible way.
37:30For us to do this work.
37:31So I want to show my great.
37:33Um, deep gratitude to my five producers here.
37:37And, and.
37:38And, uh, if, if I can add.
37:40There's some unsung heroes on, on this zoom.
37:43Um.
37:43Or not on this zoom.
37:44But who we should acknowledge.
37:45There's our amazing EPs.
37:47Obviously Chloe.
37:48Um, but Laurie Borg.
37:50Who is our line producer.
37:52And his country.
37:53Distributions are countless.
37:54And impact is invaluable.
37:56And Christy McCoscoe Krieger.
37:58There's just always a phone call away.
38:01And, um, and had so.
38:03So many different, um, ways in which she impacted the film.
38:07And still does to this day.
38:08So.
38:08Yeah.
38:09Very much a part of this team.
38:11And just, uh.
38:12One last thing.
38:13If.
38:13If I, if I can pose this to, uh, Stephen.
38:16Because you spoke about this.
38:18Uh.
38:18So, uh, powerfully, I think at the, when your film.
38:22All of your guys' film was.
38:23Uh.
38:23Uh, recognized with the Best Picture Golden Globe Award.
38:26And that is the importance.
38:28And the power of seeing this film with others in a theater.
38:32Um.
38:33And it's.
38:33It's.
38:33It's.
38:33It's, you know, people can say, oh, of course the filmmakers are going to say that.
38:37It's been said by everyone.
38:38I.
38:38I don't know how many of you were there, but I imagine you also, if you weren't there,
38:43you, you saw.
38:43What Jane Fonda said about this movie at the Palm Springs Film Festival.
38:48That was.
38:48I've never heard of it.
38:48I've never heard anything like it.
38:49That kind of.
38:50Right?
38:51And, and, and it.
38:53And it was Jane Fonda who said it.
38:56The Jane Fonda.
38:57Exactly.
38:58So, I mean.
38:58Maybe, uh, just to sum, sum up your, uh, Globes, uh.
39:03What you had to say at the Globes and, and that general consensus of how people feel when
39:08they see.
39:08This with others, uh, if you wouldn't mind speaking to that.
39:11Well, you know.
39:12Well, you know.
39:13You know, we are, we are all, you know, born into a.
39:18Similar life.
39:20We're, we're all given a chance to, you know.
39:23Find out who we are and to make a contribution to the world, I guess.
39:27And, and you.
39:28I, I, I've always found that the great equalizer, the thing that.
39:33That, that takes all of us away from our own self-interests and our own.
39:38Narcissism is when you sit in a movie theater and you.
39:43You are held spellbound by what is coming at you from the.
39:48Screened from the speakers and all of a sudden people who, if they.
39:53They ever got into a circle and, and expressed what their beliefs are, you would get.
39:58A lot of, a lot of disparate belief systems and probably a lot of.
40:03A lot of, a lot of, you know, a lot of arguments, but in a.
40:08It makes sense when you sing a movie, especially a movie like Hamnet, which deals with love.
40:13Love and loss and hope and happiness and.
40:18And, and deep grieving when you put that out there in a theater.
40:23Everyone becomes a community, the same community close.
40:28We created on her set every day is the community reflected by the.
40:33audience's acceptance of the experience of Hamnet where all of us.
40:38become brothers and sisters and there are.
40:43no differences between us because we are all in communion with.
40:48the story that Chloe is told and that's why films like Hamnet.
40:53that deserve theatrical release and not just release.
40:58And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and
41:03a living room watching television, but all together in the great unknown of a dark movie.
41:08And in a way, in that sense, Hamnet gives me a lot of hope.
41:13That there is life after streaming and before streaming.
41:18I should say life before streaming.
41:21Yes.
41:22Well, life.
41:23Liza, Peppa, Nicholas, Stephen, Sam, and Chloe.
41:26Thank you all so much.
41:27Congratulations on the.
41:28Film and the recognition from the Oscars.
41:31And thanks for taking the time to do this.
41:33Thank you so much.
41:35Bye, Scott.
41:36Bye.
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