- 1 year ago
The big talking points of this episode of News Today are Uttarakhand cloudbursts and President Donald Trump's repeated tariff threats against India over buying Russian oil.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your primetime destination news, newsmakers talking points Tuesday night. The big talking point flash floods have buried a village in Uttarkashi and there are serious worries now over an army camp in the area. We'll have all the latest updates on that developing story. Also, the gloves are off in the India versus America war on Trump's tariffs.
00:28Is it time to call out U.S. hypocrisy? We'll ask that question. But first, as always, it's time for the Nine Headlines at Nine.
00:40Deadly flash floods in Uttarkashi, Dharali village. Several people evacuated by rescue teams, but many feared dead and still trapped under the debris.
00:50Army camps situated near Dharali also devastated by the cloudburst. Ten army soldiers and one JCO are missing. Rescue operations on in full swing.
01:06U.S. President Donald Trump threatens to raise tariffs once again by citing India's imports of Russian oil, claims to hike tariffs further in the next 24 hours.
01:21India calls out American double standards, points to U.S. bilateral trade with Russia.
01:26Enforcement directorate grills businessman Anil Ambani in a loan fraud case. Sources say Ambani likely to be called again after he asked for 10 more days to collect all the papers.
01:42Priyanka Gandhi Badra slams Supreme Court's true Indian rebuke to Rahul.
01:47Gandhi says Supreme Court cannot decide who is a true Indian. Rahul is asking questions of the government as an opposition leader.
01:55The government approves a statutory resolution to extend President's rule in Manipur for another six months.
02:07Bengaluru battles the transport strike. State government buses go off roads. Protesters demand wage revision and payment of arrears. Normal life crippled in multiple cities in Karnataka.
02:18Leader of the opposition in West Bengal, Sudhendu Adhikari's convoy allegedly attacked in Koochbiyar. BJP accuses TMC for the attack. TMC calls it a well-scripted drama.
02:33And former Governor Satyapal Malik passes away at the age of 79. Malik was the governor of Jammu and Kashmir when Article 370 was purged.
02:44He had taken on the Modi government after leaving the governor's office.
02:48But the story that's breaking in this evening is a tragic story coming in from Uttarakhand...
02:50But the story that's breaking in this evening is a tragic story coming in from Uttarakhand
03:16where 10 army soldiers, one JCO are missing after a flash flood,
03:21hit Dharali in Uttarakashi in the high reaches of Uttarakhand.
03:26One officer injured, an entire army camp has reportedly been affected.
03:30So far 80 people have been evacuated by the rescue team but many more are feared under the debris.
03:36Schools have been shut in five districts in view of a red alert issued by the Indian Meteorological Department.
03:42There are horrific scenes that are coming in from Uttarakhand.
03:46I want to play some of those videos that we've been getting from Uttarakhand as you can see in those images there.
03:54Those flash floods have reportedly caused enormous damage and destruction along the way.
04:01Several videos are now coming out on social media that reflect the scale of the devastation
04:08that has taken place in the upper reaches there of Uttarakhand.
04:14Ashutosh Mishra is our correspondent who's on his way to Dharali village which is the one which is worst affected.
04:21Ashutosh, give us a sense of what you've heard and what has happened.
04:25What are the latest reports?
04:32Ashutosh, can you hear me?
04:34Okay, we'll try and re-establish connections with Ashutosh.
04:42Meanwhile, just a quick look at the top developments there in Uttarakhand.
04:45A cloudburst in Uttarakashi's Dharali village causing widespread destruction.
04:51The visuals, as I can show you, are causing enormous destruction.
04:55Cars being swept away there.
04:57The flash floods swallowing a large chunk of a village.
05:00Homes, vehicles, people seem being swept away in the raging waters.
05:05Panic gripping the region as terrified villagers began to run for their lives.
05:09The visuals on the screen that I'm showing you show the terrifying scale of the destruction
05:14taking place in this village and the foothills of the Himalayas.
05:18Before and after images of Dharali village lay where the sheer extent of the devastation
05:24after the cloudburst, in this particular visual, a man is seen struggling to try and walk through
05:30the sludge as he tries to escape the wreckage.
05:35Shocking visuals from the village showing vehicles including a car being swept away in the deluge.
05:42The deluge was triggered by a cloudburst that took place in Uttarakashi earlier today.
05:47Rescue efforts now on round the clock.
05:50The Indian army has deployed 150 personnel evacuating around 80 people so far.
05:56Search operations continuing to locate the stranded four Indian Air Force helicopters
06:01are on standby ready for rapid deployment.
06:04The devastating videos also emerging from Harsil, just seven kilometers from cloudburst hit Dharali.
06:10An army camp in Harsil has been severely damaged by the flash floods, raising further concerns in the region.
06:18Okay, let me go straight across to Ashutosh who is on his way to Dharali.
06:23Ashutosh, what news are you getting for us?
06:25What is the latest that you can tell us on the situation on the ground in Dharali?
06:29Well, Rajdeep, the weather is, you know, turning absolutely hostile for this rescue and relief operations
06:39because even here as I am crossing over, Rishik Kesh, I see the heavily rain and all these pockets
06:44because there are also heavy rain alerts have been issued.
06:47Preventive measures were taken by the administration in different districts
06:50but no one could predict this kind of rainfall because largely for a cloudburst,
06:56if it is something desired, it is always calculated at least 10 centimeter of the rainfall
07:01and even this particular region topographically, the total rainfall was around 4.3 centimeter.
07:08Now, looking at the landscape and the difficulties of the terrain for the ground forces,
07:11it will take a lot of time because as we pass through from Teheri, Vaya towards Chinyalisal
07:16and then going further towards North to Uttarkachi, several places have recorded landslides.
07:22So, for this Mammoth operations, it will take a lot of efforts by these are expert agencies
07:27who will first have to clear the landslides en route and then reach on that particular area.
07:32At two points on this specific longitude and latitude,
07:36the heli for the strip has been arranged for the landing of the choppers.
07:40We know that the Apache has been kept on standby,
07:43ALH Dhuwa has been kept on standby, Mi-17 kept on standby for Rereki.
07:47The cheetah choppers are also in standby.
07:49But the air force operation cannot be carried out at this moment as we see the heavy rainfall.
07:54We are also told there is an army camp in the area where there are fears, of course,
08:00of army jawans who are missing.
08:04So, it's not just villagers but even the army which has been affected.
08:08So, it looks like when the debris came out, Rajdeep, it was not just in one terrain but it divided it in two.
08:18One came towards Dharashi and another came towards the Sukhi top area where exactly there was an army base camp.
08:25So, reportedly, once JCO and 10 such jawans are missing, the rescue and search operation is underway.
08:31But again, as I said, the hostile situation at the moment is the weather for all the rescue efforts
08:36and also because there is no electricity.
08:38Looking at this disruptions, the electricity, the restoring the electricity and waiting for the weather to get normal,
08:45only it will take a full-fledged operation to carry out as far as a research and rescue operation.
08:49So, this looks like, it reminds just 2013 of the devastation in Kedarnath.
08:55However, scale and the magnitude may not be as big as it was in 2013.
09:00But whatever is unfolding, the kind of images that we are seeing, it is indeed scary.
09:05And the scale of this, what we are hearing at this moment, will be much more higher.
09:09We all can only pray, you know, as a human being, but being a journalist, having covered these kind of tragedies in the past, Rajdeep.
09:16This is going to be one of the most difficult operations, rescue search, relief operations for our agencies, Rajdeep.
09:21Okay, Ashutosh Mishra, stay safe.
09:23Joining us en route to Dharali, the challenges, of course, for our rescue teams.
09:28And that's what I want to look at because when you see those images, it is clear that there is considerable damage.
09:34Officially, only four people still dead.
09:36But remember, several are missing and an entire village has been hit by a fairly densely populated area by Uttarkashi standards of Dharali has been hit by this devastating cloudburst.
09:50Anjal Prakash, an expert on Hindu Kush Himalayas water system is with us.
09:54Piyush Rautela is researcher and advisor and consultant on disaster risk reduction, former executive director at Disaster Mitigation and Management Center.
10:03And also, government of Uttarakhand and Colonel Ajay Kothial, who led the Kedarnath Task Force, is joining me at the moment.
10:12And I want to come to you, Colonel, first, because clearly when we look at these images, this seems to have become now a recurring phenomenon in the hills of the Himalayas.
10:21Last year, it was Himachal.
10:23This year, it's Uttarakhand.
10:24And once again, you were in charge of the Kedarnath Task Force when the previous terrible devastation took place in 2013.
10:32So, you've had considerable experience.
10:35What's your first response to what you're seeing?
10:38Could this be minimized in any way?
10:40Or is this a tragedy waiting to happen, given that these villages on the Himalayas, on the foothills are so vulnerable to a cloudburst?
10:48You see, Uttarakhand today has become prone to these small, or we can call it bigger in magnetic gravity also, these type of cloudburst related disasters.
11:05And the effect also depends on how much human density is existing there.
11:14Like in today's case, there was a small local festival also in that place, village, this area called Dharali.
11:23Dharali also happens to be, besides the religious importance of Gangotri Highway, it also happens to be a very scenic, beautiful place where a lot of attraction is because of the environment.
11:35Now, cloudburst is a phenomenon which is happening in so many places in Uttarakhand.
11:41Unfortunately, we have to bear with it.
11:43Only thing we can do is prepare ourselves to become the responders, first responders, immediate responders, and thereafter carrying out rescue.
11:54So, the good thing is that this has not happened at night.
11:58Had it happened at night, then there would have been more piasko rather.
12:01Let me go to Anjal Prakash.
12:03Anjal Prakash, as I said, we have been having frequent cloudbursts across the Himalayan region.
12:10We have also had devastating floods earlier this year in Mandi.
12:14Are you surprised with these kind of images that we are seeing at the moment?
12:18Are these areas particularly vulnerable at this time of the year?
12:22Have the frequencies of cloudbursts increased in your view?
12:26See, I am not surprised, Rade, because this is happening from last five to six years.
12:34The intensity and the severity of these disasters are actually, you know, increasing day by day.
12:40Reports after reports, the IPCC report that I have been part of for a couple of years has been pointing this out,
12:46that there is going to be a better future in Himalayas, both the eastern and western Himalayan regions.
12:51So, this is a known fact for all of us.
12:54The only thing which is actually not, you know, acceptable is the response.
12:58Response in a sense that the post-disaster response is very good, but the pre-disaster response,
13:03the planning that has to happen, that has been a problem, because after numerous such warnings,
13:08I do not see much of the changes which is happening, at least at the planning level.
13:14Now, let me just point out one or two things.
13:16You know, last year we had seen what has happened in Himachal.
13:19This year it is Sudrakhand.
13:21Year before that it was Sikkim.
13:23We have to understand that these are Himalayan regions are at a critical juncture of climate change.
13:29It is a very critical zone which requires attention.
13:33And that attention means that it has to be planned at a bioregional level.
13:37That has to be seen, not from state-to-state perspective, but from a regional perspective.
13:43Numerous reporters, as I told you, the recent report was ICMOD report,
13:46which has pointed out that these are risk zone areas.
13:49You must plan well, but it has gone deaf ears.
13:52It's gone on deaf ears.
13:53Piyush, Rautela, your first reactions to the kind of images that we are seeing.
13:58You're a disaster risk reduction expert.
14:01Many of these villages are built in and around the river.
14:04And then when there's a cloud burst, they become very vulnerable.
14:10Yeah, Radhib.
14:11It's not the first time that this kind of incidences are happening in this region.
14:17Region has been witnessing this kind of incidences for ages.
14:21But our people, with their traditional wisdom and other kind of things, have been coping with this.
14:30But lately, we have, say, traditional knowledge has gone.
14:40And the government, when we say government, there is no political will to, say,
14:48have a strict kind of policy for this kind of disasters, because there are no electoral gains.
15:02At present, everything we do is for electoral gains.
15:05We don't have a debris disposing policy.
15:10We don't have a riverside, where do you want to make it, where do you want to make it, where do you want to make it.
15:16Yeah.
15:16So, that is all the culmination of economic gains.
15:23I'll come to those, you know, because obviously, at the moment, the focus, Pughji, is on the rescue operations.
15:29There is the larger question, of course, of how vulnerable they remain.
15:32Just let me go back to Captain Kothial.
15:35As someone who was involved in that Kedarnath task force, what for you is the biggest challenge for the rescue teams now?
15:42Nightfall is upon us.
15:43Is it going to become now more and more difficult for those rescue operations?
15:48Or will the rescue have to now wait till the morning, Captain?
15:53See, what we have to understand is the terrain.
15:56The terrain in these type of mountainous areas, it is generally mountains on two sides of the region, a river flowing in between.
16:07And the main artery, the main, say, movement which takes place is on a main road, which is either on the left or the right side of the river.
16:17Now, in this specific case, Uttarkashi is the township from where the valley starts.
16:23When we go to this Gangotri site, so around 20-25 kilometers short of Gangotri, is this place where this incident has taken place.
16:33When a cloudburst is happening, like in this case, around 1 kilometers as a croplight distance from the place where this incident has happened,
16:43there are two other cloudbursts which have taken place, which is now getting, we are getting informed about it.
16:49This incident is, say, on the right side of the river.
16:54On the left also, there is another small rivulet sort of feature which is coming down, a re-entrant sort of thing, where again this cloudburst effect has taken place.
17:06So, actually, that's the worry. Of course, there's so little details emerging at this moment.
17:11But Anjal Prakash, to a final word from you.
17:14I mean, are we now, therefore, going to see this as an annual phenomenon in these areas unless we get real,
17:19as was also pointed out by Mr. Rautela, that we need to get real about just how are we going to, in some way,
17:27find a disaster mitigation program for the entire Himalayan range?
17:31Exactly the point, Rajdeep, that this has to, we have to see beyond this one incident that has happened.
17:40But, you know, we also have dot of dots which has to be combined together.
17:45And understand that this is a disaster in the making.
17:48We have to see the entire region of Himalayan region in one understanding,
17:53in a sense of that we have to have a very robust planning,
17:56a very different types of development processes required there.
18:00And also, what we call the nature-based solution has to prevail,
18:04which has been in the past and which we have probably have lost in the way.
18:08One more point I would also like to point out is about institutional response to this process, right?
18:13So, you see the Nodal Ministry of Ministry of Environment, Forest and Climate Change.
18:18Climate change is one of the kind of sideline items in the ministry.
18:23It has to be, and I have been telling this for a long time,
18:25that we have to carve out a special ministry of climate change,
18:28looking at the kind of disaster that has.
18:30And that ministry has to coordinate among all other ministries.
18:33Because now this is becoming a headline news.
18:36It is becoming day, you know, page one news.
18:38And that's where also that we have to evolve institutionally,
18:41which we have not done, unfortunately.
18:43I'm going to leave it there at the moment.
18:44But as I said, still details are coming out of the scale of the devastation,
18:48particularly that army camp, which is a concern in one part of Uttarakhand,
18:54where we're not getting enough information out.
18:56All we know is at least 10 jawans are missing.
18:59But to all my guests for joining me on that developing story from Uttarakashi,
19:03thank you very much for joining me.
19:05I want to turn, since we are talking about jawans and the border,
19:08to the breaking news that's coming in at the moment.
19:10Pakistan has violated the ceasefire along the LOC once again.
19:16The ceasefire has been violated in Pooch district of Jammu and Kashmir.
19:20Pakistani troops have resorted reportedly to unprovoked firing yet again.
19:24This is the first ceasefire violation by Pakistan after Operation Sindur.
19:29So, just months after it was expected that the situation would return to normal.
19:36Remember that ceasefire violations,
19:37the conflict took place in early May.
19:41So, just about three months later,
19:43we are seeing another ceasefire violation,
19:47first ceasefire violation by Pakistan after Operation Sindur.
19:50Meir Fareed is joining me live from Srinagar.
19:53Meir, what more, Fareed, what more details can you give us?
19:56Well, Rajti Paizu rightly said this is the first ceasefire violation after the three-day war between India and Pakistan in May.
20:06Now, this has happened in the Pooch sector.
20:08To be precise, this is the Chhatri post of the Indian Army,
20:11which was fired upon by Pakistani Army post.
20:14Almost 15 to 20 rounds of small arms fire,
20:17which was retaliated in equal measure by the Indian Army.
20:20Now, post that, there has been a silence,
20:22but you have to understand the timing because it's 5th of August,
20:26so probably this could be connected with this.
20:30Right now, army sources say that post this ceasefire violation,
20:34the Indian Army is on the highest alert all along the line of control
20:38because they do expect that if this has happened here,
20:42it could happen in other places as well.
20:43So, the first ceasefire violation post operations in Noor happening in the Pooch sector
20:48where almost 15 to 20 rounds, small arms fire was fired and army also retaliated.
20:53Rajti.
20:54Okay, Meir, Fareed, with those details, we'll keep updating that story as we get more details.
21:00A ceasefire violation in Pooch district of Jammu and Kashmir,
21:03the first since Operation Sindhu.
21:05Let's turn to more breaking news,
21:07and it's coming from the leader who makes all the breaking news in 2025,
21:11U.S. President Donald Trump a short while ago has repeated his tariff threat
21:16or escalating tariffs against India.
21:18Trump has said, I am going to raise tariffs on India very substantially.
21:23The tariff hike will take place over the next 24 hours.
21:26Trump says the tariff hike is because India is buying Russian oil.
21:30These are the penalties he's been talking about
21:32and says India is fueling the war machine of Russia against Ukraine.
21:37So, you've got Donald Trump once again shooting off.
21:41And using tariffs as a weapon, the weaponization of tariffs
21:45by the U.S. President against India is continuing.
21:49Okay, let's take a look though at how India has responded
21:52and why now the gloves are off in this battle
21:56between India and the United States over tariffs.
21:59What appeared to be an all-weather friendship is slipping on trade tariffs and oil.
22:14The Bonhomie is long gone.
22:16There is a sudden chill in India-U.S. ties.
22:19After President Donald Trump, in a social media post, threatened to hike tariffs further,
22:26linking India's oil imports from Russia to deaths in Ukraine, New Delhi has hit back.
22:32The Ministry of External Affairs, in a statement, said India started importing oil from Russia
22:38because traditional supplies were diverted to Europe after the conflict began in 2022.
22:44It said the U.S. itself had encouraged such imports from India to stabilise global energy markets.
22:51The MEA called out the Western world's hypocrisy,
22:54pointing out that the European Union had a bilateral trade of 67.5 billion euros
23:00in go-pots with Russia in 2024 and services trade worth 17.2 billion in 2023.
23:08New Delhi also called out the U.S. imports of uranium, palladium, fertilisers and chemicals from Russia.
23:17Calling the targeting of India unjustified and unreasonable,
23:21the MEA said India will take all measures to safeguard its national interest.
23:28The showdown over trade escalated after Trump imposed 25% tariff
23:33and described India as a dead economy.
23:35The Narendra Modi government has time and again reminded the West
23:57it is buying oil from Russia legally and in the best interest of Indian consumers.
24:02If more and more people were to buy from the other OPEC sources,
24:08you know what would have happened?
24:10Prices would have got a minimum to $130, $140 a barrel.
24:15So if we were buying from any source that we could,
24:20I think we should be applauded.
24:22In 2022, India received a discount of over $30 a barrel from Russia.
24:29The discount went down to around $20 in 2023 and further to around $9 in 2024.
24:36This year, the average discount has been around $2 to $5 a barrel.
24:40An American delegation was expected to reach India for negotiations this month.
24:47The latest standoff over tariffs has put the much-awaited India-US trade talks under a clout.
24:53Bureau Report, India Today.
24:55So are we now heading for an all-out India-US tariff war?
25:02Should the Modi government now simply stare down Donald Trump and call him out?
25:07Are America's double standards being exposed or is Indian foreign policy finding itself on the back foot?
25:14Joining me now is Dr. Sanjay Baru.
25:17He is, remember, someone who's tracked economies and geo-economics for years now,
25:23was formerly with the Prime Minister's office and a senior editor.
25:27Brahma Chalani, strategic affairs expert, joins me.
25:29And Sanjeev Aluwalia, who is someone who's been an economic regulation and oil expert.
25:35I appreciate all of you joining me at the moment on the show.
25:38Brahma Chalani, to you first.
25:40What's your first reaction to what you're seeing playing out over the last 24 hours?
25:45Donald Trump has once again now said he will increase tariffs substantially against India,
25:51despite India's tough statement saying that they will not bow down to U.S. pressure.
25:57Trump has turned disruption into his foreign policy doctrine.
26:03He's like a bull in a China shop.
26:05The last thing you want to do is to wave a red rag at the bull.
26:10So, dealing with him demands a composed, measured response to help blunt his dominance tactics.
26:17He likes to play hardball with others, often to create negotiating leverage.
26:22And it's important for India to set clear boundaries and not to reward bad behavior,
26:28including, when necessary, saying no firmly and walking away from negotiations.
26:33So, what do you mean when you say India has to set clear boundaries?
26:38Are you therefore saying what India did last night with the Ministry of External Affairs,
26:42making it clear that India retains its right to trade with any country it wants,
26:46strategic autonomy, while also calling out American double standards,
26:50a country along with the EU that continues to trade with Russia?
26:53It was a good statement, but India has to go beyond rhetoric.
26:59Balancing firmness with diplomatic overtures holds the key.
27:05Firmness must include countermeasures, that is, counter-tariffs on American exports.
27:10And overtures should include an effort to placate Washington to some extent
27:14by offering to Sweden a trade deal that remains under negotiation.
27:20Counter-tariffs are essential, or else the bull in the China shop would create serious damage and chaos.
27:26In fact, without Indian counter-tariffs, Trump will feel more emboldened to step up pressure on India.
27:32Why has he picked on India?
27:33Why hasn't he picked on China, which is a far bigger buyer of Russian energy products?
27:38The reason is that he thinks India is an easier target.
27:41And therefore, India has to stand up to Trump by imposing its own counter-tariffs.
27:48Okay, you're saying impose counter-tariffs.
27:50Let me get in, Dr. Bahru.
27:51Dr. Bahru, you agree with that, that India has to stand up to Trump, that enough is enough?
27:56Or do you believe that India doesn't have quite the leverage that, let's say, China has?
28:01China has stared him down, but India can't.
28:03Well, first of all, I agree almost with everything that Brahma has just said,
28:09except that I'm not sure counter-tariffs is going to work much.
28:13So, even if you do it, I don't think the impact on the US would be significant enough to alter Trump's behavior.
28:21Secondly, yes, China has more leverage than India.
28:24That is an obvious fact.
28:26But I think so far, the Indian government's response has been along the correct lines.
28:31We need to hunker down, not react, not respond.
28:35The statement given yesterday was all right, but there's no need to have a statement out every day.
28:41I think the government should remain quiet for a few days and see what President Trump would say, what he can do.
28:50I think the Indian strategy has to be at least medium term, if not long term, because the fact is that President Trump has disrupted a very important relationship for both the United States and for India,
29:05built very, very assiduously over a quarter century.
29:08The trust is gone.
29:10I mean, I think the first thing, first impact of whatever President Trump has done is to completely erase the trust that we built from around the time Prime Minister Vajpayee was in office, over the last 25 years.
29:25So, I don't think we should be in a rush to placate President Trump.
29:30We need to understand what he's doing and wait for the next step, maybe wait for the next several steps.
29:37I think we can bear the burden of these high tariffs.
29:41We should bear the burden of these high tariffs.
29:43There's a cost to pay for strategic autonomy.
29:45There's a cost to pay for being an independent power.
29:48And I think the government has so far walked this talk quite admirably.
29:53Let's come to the government's talk at the moment, Sanjeev Aluwalia.
29:57In its statement yesterday, the ministry said, India's oil imports from Russia are meant to ensure predictable and affordable energy costs for the Indian consumer.
30:06Now, in that statement, that seemed to be the one sticking point because the government of India has not passed the benefit to the consumer.
30:13Many believe that the benefits have gone to some of the major corporates who have actually benefited disproportionately, who are dealing in oil and not the consumer.
30:25So, is the government of India doing this out of altruism for the Indian consumer or because they're under pressure from some of the oil companies to carry on with it?
30:33No, I think what India did in terms of buying oil from Russia, which was and thereby endangering itself with sanctions, was not just for India.
30:50It's actually for the entire world.
30:51Because if this oil, if it had not been passed through to Europe, and all those other people who are not today suffering from President Trump's sanctioning regime versus Russia, all of them would have suffered.
31:08As far as the Indian consumer is concerned, we know that the Indian upper and middle class consumer, which uses private transport, has long been a tax source that the government of India can always use.
31:30That's a separate issue.
31:32But are you saying that India had absolutely no – you're saying India did the right thing in its national interest to import oil, cheap oil from Russia?
31:42It wasn't in the interest of a few corporates as is being alleged.
31:45No, not just in national interest, Rajdeep.
31:49India stepped in to tread this slightly curbed path for the entire world.
31:57We didn't keep all the oil that we bought.
32:01We transshipped it.
32:02We transformed it.
32:03We supplied the entire world.
32:05So, we actually did the United States a favor, whereby they could maintain their tough stance and, you know, their friends in Europe and other places could get cheaper oil.
32:20But might I just add another point on the previous one, Rajdeep, that, you know, I think that it is time that we distinguished between President Trump and America.
32:31Because it is now increasingly debatable whether the two are co-joined at the hip.
32:38And our relationship is not with President Trump.
32:41Our relationship, a longstanding relationship, which includes many gestures of friendship from the U.S. starting from the 50s onward, that is with the United States.
32:55And that is the entity we should keep in mind when we determine what our responses should be.
33:04That's very well put.
33:05But, Pramachirani, I just want to throw a few numbers and get you to respond.
33:08The Russia factor.
33:10Russia's share in India's crude imports rose from 1% in 2021 to 28% in 2024.
33:18India exported $14 to $15 billion of petro products to EU every year since 2022.
33:24The EU, in turn, brought 17.8 million tons LNG from Russia in 2024, highest since 2019.
33:33EU bought uranium products worth over 2,295 million euros in 2023, highest since 2019.
33:42And the U.S. has imported goods worth $3,000 million in 2024 and a little less than that in 2025.
33:50And U.S. has a trade deficit of $2,479 million with Russia in 2024.
33:56So, in a sense, is it important for India, according to you, Brahma, to call out American hypocrisy here?
34:02And the fact is that the EU and the U.S. contribute more, much more, to Russia's coffers through their imports than India does.
34:13But there is a very important point to keep in mind that Russian energy products are not under U.S. direct sanctions.
34:25Iranian oil is under U.S. sanctions.
34:29In his first term, Trump, by imposing sanctions on Iran, deprived India of cheaper Iranian oil,
34:37thereby turning India into a major and great market for U.S. crude and energy exports.
34:43Now, in his second term, by exerting pressure on India to stop buying Russian oil,
34:49he would like India to become the largest buyer of U.S. energy products.
34:52But as I said, unlike Iranian oil, Russian oil is not subject to direct U.S. sanctions,
34:59which is a key difference that would make India less willing to yield this time.
35:04Last time, India yielded.
35:06And that is why India is under pressure now.
35:08India yielded by bringing his Iranian oil purchases to zero.
35:13Today, India is seeking to placate Trump by dramatically increasing imports of higher-priced American crude oil.
35:22For example, according to officials in India, in the first six months of this year,
35:27Indian imports of U.S. oil and energy products have gone up by 51 percent.
35:31And in the whole fiscal year, the current fiscal year,
35:35India's imports of U.S. oil and energy products are likely to go up by 150 percent.
35:40So India is seeking to do both things.
35:43On one hand, standing firm.
35:44And on the other hand, seeking to placate Washington.
35:48One other point, Rajdeep, we should not focus too much on Trump.
35:56The frame of the U.S.-India relationship began under Joe Biden.
36:04When Biden administration began playing the Khalistan card against India,
36:08the human rights card against India,
36:09it was the Biden administration that, in 2022, after the Russian invasion of Ukraine,
36:18tried to bully India to give up its independent foreign policy approach.
36:22And that frame of the relationship under Biden,
36:26many had hoped in India that this would reverse under Donald Trump.
36:32But Trump, ever since April, when Pakistan signed this crypto deal with the Trump family-controlled
36:41World Liberty Financial, his attitude towards India has changed.
36:46It's become very hardline.
36:48And we don't know what lies behind the Pakistan factor.
36:52But certainly, what we are seeing is a continuation of the decline in this vital relationship that began on Joe Biden's watch.
37:04Do you agree with that, Dr. Baru, that there is a secular decline, in a way, in the relationship?
37:10Or is Donald Trump simply using, for example, Russian oil at the moment to actually camouflage the real issue,
37:16which is his desperate desire or his growing frustration that he's not being able to actually get what he wants?
37:22This is actually Trump frustration at work.
37:24And we should allow it to play out.
37:27Or is there a larger problem with the Indo-US relationship at the moment?
37:33Well, I think, first of all, I agree that even under President Biden, things were not very, very good.
37:39But you see, Biden's reaction was to our stance vis-a-vis Russia and the war in Ukraine.
37:45And Biden was using various instruments to exert pressure on us, which is par for the course in bilateral relations between countries.
37:55Everybody tries to use some leverage.
37:57We use leverage against many of our neighbors in trying to influence their policy.
38:02But what has happened with President Trump is a fundamental disruption because it has become very, very personalized.
38:08I think, first of all, this whole episode with Trump tells us that personalized diplomacy does not work.
38:16I mean, we've lived through people now are no longer talking about it.
38:19But we've lived through a period when we are told that Prime Minister Modi has this fantastic personal relationship with X, Y, Z all over the world.
38:27And that India's, you know, relations have improved because of that, you know, hug diplomacy and personal diplomacy.
38:32I think what we now see is a fundamental disruption in this bilateral relationship.
38:38It may be partly due to his personality, partly due to his family getting bribed by Pakistanis, partly due to, you know, his frustration that he's not been able to bend India, whatever the motivations.
38:49I think, you know, the real fact is that, as I said earlier, the trust is gone.
38:55And building this trust took a lot of effort.
38:58During President Biden's time, I wouldn't say the trust was gone.
39:03We understood why they were exerting pressure on us.
39:05We also did mistakes because of which they could exert pressure on us.
39:09After all, the whole Kalistani thing was mishandled as much by us as by President Biden.
39:14But I think what we are now seeing is a fundamental disruption of an important relationship.
39:23And I don't know how we are going to come out of this or when we are going to come out of this.
39:27But I think our approach so far, at least in the last few days, after having made some initial mistakes, I think, you know, for example, Rajdeep, let me just add that if we had actually brought down our tariffs, as many Indian economists have been suggesting,
39:40or if we had actually responded to Trump's initial tweets on the ceasefire at the end of Operation Sindhu, some gestures like this may have appeased him.
39:51But I think now we are at a point where none of this is going to appease him.
39:55There is a loss of trust between the two leaderships.
39:58And I think we need to hunker down and wait and watch how things, you know, unfold.
40:04Okay.
40:04I'm going to leave it there because at the moment, I'm also going to be joined by another guest.
40:08But Dr. Baru, Mr. Aluwalia and Brahma Chalani, appreciate you joining us.
40:14The suggestion is that we've got to hunker down in a way and take on Donald Trump to the extent that we possibly can.
40:20Where does this leave America?
40:21I am now joined by another special guest, Richard Haas, is former top American diplomat and someone who was the president of the Council for Foreign Relations.
40:30Appreciate your joining us, Mr. Haas.
40:33Complete confusion in India over just what Donald Trump wants to do.
40:37His comments are being seen in some way to be increasingly anti-India.
40:42How do you see it?
40:43Is Donald Trump simply upending the rules-based world order, disrupting it, even alienating a friendly country like India?
40:51Well, there's two ways to answer your question.
40:57One is, in general, Donald Trump is in certain ways upending the world order that existed.
41:05He is of the view, not one I share, but he is of the view that in many ways it has not served American interests.
41:12He is questioning, in many cases, the value of certain relationships with friends and allies.
41:20So all of that affects our partners in Europe, in Asia, elsewhere in the world, including India.
41:29Then I think there are some special concerns about India.
41:34There has long been some frustration over India's economic policy, above all its protectionism, frustrations for American firms trying to do business in India.
41:47There's obviously also a degree of unhappiness with the closeness of India's relations with Russia, India's purchases of Russian energy.
41:59So I think, again, you have both of these forces at play, a general questioning of American foreign policy or many aspects of American foreign policy.
42:09You know, you're describing, Mr. Haas, frustrations on the part of the Trump administration.
42:21But look at it from India's point of view.
42:23When the U.S. president goes on record saying India is a dead economy and almost threatens punitive measures, penalties if India doesn't stop oil trade with Russia,
42:34India, in my view, rightly believes this is an infringement on our strategic autonomy.
42:39So what really seems to be happening, Mr. Haas, is an element, I wouldn't say breakdown, but certainly mistrust that's creeping in on both sides.
42:47India, too, has every right to be frustrated with Donald Trump.
42:53I wish I could disagree with you, but I can't.
42:56I thought that language used by the American president was unfortunate.
43:02And treating India and Russia in the same sentence, I think, is not fair to India.
43:10But I think your larger point is that both sides now approach this bilateral relationship, the United States and India, both capitals, both countries, with a degree of suspicion.
43:25Oddly enough, this reminds me of the way things were several decades ago, before the United States and India built a more modern post-Cold War relationship.
43:35And what seems to be happening now over the last six months is some of the old mutual questioning or skepticism, a lack of confidence, a lack of trust, has reentered this relationship.
43:49And, you know, I think the challenge for both capitals is to try to figure out a way to work through it, because I'm one of those who continues to believe a close, not just economic, but strategic relationship between the United States and India is in the interest of both countries.
44:09So I would like to see things return to a better footing.
44:13But I don't I don't take issue with your point.
44:15Things things have clearly taken a step backwards between us.
44:19But if you were to then advise New Delhi and the Modi government, how should the Modi government now deal with Donald Trump at the moment?
44:27In your view, what's the best way forward?
44:31Well, again, it's not my position to advise the government in India or any other government about how to deal with the United States.
44:39But I would simply say that India needs to look hard at the two issues that give the United States, not just Donald Trump, but the United States, structural concern.
44:49One is its its policy in terms of access of American firms to the Indian market.
44:55Are there areas where India can do more is willing to do more in order to reduce some of the barriers of entry and operation?
45:06And then secondly, I think India's purchasing of Russian oil is truly unfortunate.
45:12I think I understand why a discounted price given India's economic and energy situation.
45:19I understand the argument.
45:20But what Russia is doing is a fundamental threat to world order.
45:26And what it's doing in you in Ukraine is simply outrageous.
45:29So, I would very much hope that India would rethink its policy of importing these large quantities of Russian oil.
45:43I think it's truly unfortunate.
45:45And I would hope that India would look for other ways to meet its energy needs.
45:51You know, that's easier said than done, of course, Mr. Haas.
45:54But there is also the China factor here.
45:56Do you believe China is the elephant in the room that for the longest time there was a sense that Washington wanted to use India as a bulwark against China?
46:04But the U.S. president now continues to negotiate with China.
46:08How do you see that playing out?
46:09Is this all in a way part of a greater game that's being playing out at the moment?
46:19I don't know if it's the elephant in the room, but it's obviously a consideration.
46:23And I take your point.
46:24One of the arguments for a closer U.S. relationship with India, that it strengthened both countries vis-a-vis China.
46:32We didn't need for India to become an ally.
46:35We weren't asking India to become an ally.
46:37But the fact that India was a robust democracy with close ties to the West, militarily stronger than it was, that would be a strategic consideration for China.
46:48And the more strategic considerations that China had, I thought it was better for both the United States and India.
46:54We didn't want China to feel it had a free hand, whether from the U.S. point of view against Taiwan or and from the Indian point of view against against India itself.
47:05So I thought that there was a certain strategic logic to a closer U.S.-Indian relationship.
47:12I don't know now what it is that President Trump is thinking of with China.
47:18Recently, there's been some signals, some of which I'm comfortable with, some of which I'm not.
47:23I worry about what seems to be some of the distancing from the United States and Taiwan.
47:28And I think there's a big question mark as to what Mr. Trump is will, what is it he seeks from China in the way of a closer, say, economic relationship and what he might be willing to give to China in order to bring that about.
47:44But this, to me, is the kind of thing India and the United States ought to be talking about.
47:49This is what strategic dialogues are all about.
47:52I think both India and the United States are better off when we are, how would I put it, we are on the same page when it comes to dealing with China or at least a similar page.
48:04Let me ask you a final question.
48:06How would you then describe Mr. Haas, Donald Trump's foreign policy in short?
48:10How would you sum it up?
48:11It's been seven months.
48:12Are we going ahead now for even more disruption or will the time come when Mr. Trump realizes that he simply can't end up alienating all his allies as he seems to be doing over the last seven months?
48:22It's quite possible that what we're seeing over these past six, seven months is less initial phase or less a transition than it is what we're going to see for the next three and a half years.
48:38I think Donald Trump, you know, what he's made clear in his second term, that it's not the same as first term.
48:44Trump 2.0 is quite different than Trump 1.0.
48:47Trump 2.0 is not isolationist.
48:50It is interventionist.
48:52It's also, though, more than anything, unilateralist.
48:54And we see that with the tariffs.
48:56We see it with the use of military force.
49:00We see it with diplomatic approaches to various challenges.
49:05So this seems to be an American foreign policy that is structurally much less predictable than it was, much less oriented towards preserving relationships or arrangements.
49:18And it may not be something I, shall we say, am comfortable with, but that is what we're seeing.
49:24So I think for every country in the world, they've got to adjust or think through their national security relations, because in terms of the United States, that continues to be less predictable and perhaps more nationalist than it historically has been for what?
49:43For the last eight decades, with all of which is to say, sorry to go on so long, is I don't think what we've seen over the last six months is just a phase.
49:52I do think what we're beginning to see is get a full picture of Trump 2.0.
49:58Trump 2.0 clearly becoming the major disruptor for global economies, not just India.
50:07Richard Haass for joining me there from Washington, D.C.
50:10Thank you so much.
50:11Let's turn to our ground report tonight.
50:13A massive public outcry has erupted now over the relocation of Madhuri, the beloved elephant of the Nandi mutt in Maharashtra's Kolapur.
50:21After 34 years of the mutt, she was shifted to Gujarat's Vantara facility, which is controlled by the Ambani's on court orders.
50:28Now the Maharashtra government and religious leaders want her to return, calling it a matter of faith.
50:34Take a look at our ground story.
50:35Madhuri, a 36-year-old female elephant, was with the Nandini mutt in Kolapur for over three decades.
50:46She was recently relocated to Vantara Animal Rescue and Rehabilitation Centre in Jamnagar, following a Bombay High Court order.
50:55Now bringing the elephant back to Kolapur has become a top priority for the Devinder Fadnavis government.
51:03After a high-level meeting chaired by Chief Minister Fadnavis, the state government along with Nanda Neemat of Jain Community has decided to file a review petition in the Supreme Court, seeking relocation of Madhuri to Kolapur.
51:16The Chief Minister also assured the court would be informed about a dedicated team, rescue centre and proper care for the elephant if she is returned.
51:26Fadnavis and several office ministers were forced to step in after more than 10,000 people held a 45-kilometre silent march led by former MP Raju Shethi on Sunday.
51:37The public's sentiment is loud and clear. Return their beloved elephant to Nandini mutt.
52:02The protesters claimed the High Court ruling was based on a report by Animal Rights, NG of PETA.
52:09Peta on the other hand claims Madhuri after 30,000 people held a stronghold of the police.
52:3933 years of being controlled by chains
52:41and forced into chaotic ceremonies
52:43is receiving the care she deserves.
52:47Peeta, meanwhile, has shared videos
52:49of Madhuri's recovery at Vantara
52:51and the reasons for shifting it.
52:54Bureau Report, India Today.
53:00Let me leave you though tonight
53:02with our image of the day
53:03and prayers for the people of Uttarkashi Dharali village
53:07where a deadly flash flood
53:09as we reported at the top of the news.
53:12Several people have been evacuated by rescue teams
53:14but many still are feared to be trapped under the debris.
53:18Our thoughts and prayers with the people of Dharali village.
53:22That's it on the news today.
53:24Thanks for watching.
53:25Stay well, stay safe.
53:27Good night, Shubhra 3.
53:29Jai Hind, Musa.
53:37Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa, Jai Hind, Musa
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