00:00Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. In an open letter to the Prime Minister,
00:25a global union federation is urging Malaysia to support an ILO Article 33 sanction. This is rarely
00:34used but a powerful tool, this ahead of the International Labour Conference in June.
00:40The sanction is to be against the Myanmar junta for violations of workers' rights and a violation
00:46of democracy. Joining me now to speak about this further is Charles Santiago, who was cc'd in the
00:53open letter. He's the co-chair of the ASEAN Parliamentarians for Human Rights. Charles,
01:00thank you so much for being on the show with me. I appreciate your time. You were cc'd in this
01:03open letter to the Prime Minister calling for Article 33 measures against Myanmar. Can we talk
01:10a little bit about that? What is the letter's call to action? What is your response to it? And do you
01:17think Malaysia is in a position to send a message? Thanks Melissa for having me to discuss important
01:25regional development. And let me just quickly respond to the question that you had involving
01:30Article 33. Now Article 33 has got many components to it, but I think we need to focus on two areas
01:39which I think will go a long way in trying to bring some kind of a normalcy and a process of democracy
01:48and development in Myanmar. I think one of the things, the first things the government has to do are the
01:55requirements of the ILO Article 33 is the release of political prisoners. Now this is something that the
02:03Malaysian Prime Minister Dasri Anwar Ibrahim has also called for. And in his recent visit to Bangkok,
02:12he also made the call again. And he was quite encouraged by the release of at least, I think one
02:19or two hundred people. But I think what is important is to create a sense of confidence on the
02:26five-point consensus and Malaysia's leadership. I think what Myanmar has to do is to release more
02:34political prisoners who have been put in jail without any legal necessity. They've been just arrested and put
02:49in jail without legal recourse. So this is something that has to be looked at. And I think Malaysia is the
02:56chair, can follow up, although it's an article 33 of the ILO. But it is also something that you find in
03:03the five-point consensus on political dialogue of the ASEAN heads of government. Now the second is the issue of
03:10jet fuel. The issue of jet fuel is a very serious development and there has been an international call all over the
03:18world. And where some governments have also supported the call. And this is to stop sending jet fuel into
03:25Myanmar. And that is because the junta is using the jet fuel together with arms it's procuring from
03:36elsewhere to bomb hospitals, villages and schools and to create a fear and environment of fear
03:47danger and anxiety within the population. So one of the and I think this is something that Malaysia as
03:55the chair of ASEAN and also a member of the ILO can actually push for both at the meeting next month at
04:03the ILO conference in Geneva at the same time at the meeting that is taking place at the end of this
04:09month in Malaysia where the heads of government from ASEAN will be here together with Malaysian partners. So I think
04:15this is that Malaysia's leadership at both levels both at ASEAN as well as ILO will be something that
04:22people will be looking forward to. Charles, Myanmar is still recovering from that devastating earthquake
04:29that happened at the end of February, early April if I'm not mistaken. Can we talk a little bit about that?
04:38If there are economic sanctions placed on the military junta, will this cripple the need for
04:45the rebuilding of Myanmar and the distribution of humanitarian aid? Sure. I think there are two
04:53separate issues. I think it is not a blanket sanctions across the board. It doesn't involve food,
05:03it doesn't involve medicine, it doesn't involve economic activity. What it only requires is one,
05:09jet fuel. The sanctions against jet fuel and number two, against arms that are being brought into the
05:16country and that is sold by countries like Russia, China and to some extent Eastern Europe including
05:22India as well. So these are countries that are supporting the junta and that is why there's a global
05:28call by agencies, non-governmental organizations and countries that want some kind of democracy in
05:35Myanmar not to bring in jet fuel. That is a sanction. Now coming back to the issue of humanitarian aid,
05:42this is something that is very devastating and that is because the very jet fuel and the very bombs that
05:50are being brought into the country is being used to bomb the very places that have been devastated by the
05:57earthquake. This is done by the junta and the Malaysian prime minister has called for a ceasefire
06:05and I think that's very welcome and I think that but unfortunately there is nobody monitoring the ceasefire.
06:14This is important because while the earthquake is happening in places like Mandalay, places like
06:20Sagayang and so on and including Nepido, the bombs are still raining, the bombs are still coming down
06:27against the ethnic groups and so on. So the call by the prime minister is not being listened or being
06:33there's no response effective response from the junta in Myanmar. Despite the meeting, despite the meeting
06:41that took place between the prime minister of Malaysia as well as Min Ong Lai, General Min Ong Lai,
06:47who agreed to extend the ceasefire but two days after that the bombs were again going and I think
06:55there's almost about, some people have documented it, about 165 bombs have been put in and these are
07:02not small bombs, they are 500 pound bombs which are thrown at hospitals though. There are bomb used to bomb
07:08hospitals, villages and places of worship. Now I say this because I was at the border last week and I heard from
07:16people who are actually fleeing from those areas into the borders of Myanmar and Thailand. So it's a first-hand
07:24account and the result of the bombing and this first, that's number one. Number two, whatever
07:32international aid that the government is getting, the Myanmar junta is getting, I shouldn't say government
07:38because it was the government is an overthrow. Lots of services, lots of money and lots of resources are
07:49being diverted to Naypyidaw. Naypyidaw is where the capital of Myanmar is located and that is run by the military junta.
08:02So some of the buildings have been broken and quite badly and it's crushed down. So now a lot of these resources
08:09are being diverted there. So therefore, our Malaysia has a responsibility to respond to these issues in the context of
08:17the five-point consensus that Malaysia, Malaysia agreed to and Indonesia agreed to and all the other countries,
08:23including Myanmar. Mingong Lai was at the meeting and he agreed to the five-point consensus. It's four years,
08:30going on to the fifth, nothing has happened. Nothing has happened and this lack of progress makes many
08:35people wonder whether the five-point consensus is actually, should be the driving force of the way
08:41forward. Can I ask you, you pointed out to the fact that Malaysia is ASEAN chair, we've got the ASEAN
08:45summit at the end of the month and we've got the ILO conference coming up in June. When is there an
08:51approach that Malaysia can take to the Myanmar crisis that might shift the needle in terms of progress
09:01and maybe do things differently? What can it do that others cannot? And what happens to Malaysia's
09:09credibility if ASEAN continues to not make progress on the five-point consensus? What's at stake for the
09:16region? I think there are two or three sets of issues that we can discuss. One is the outflow of
09:26refugees that is happening as a result of the bombings. That's number one. Number two, there is
09:34also an effort by the government, the ruling junta to conscript young boys, youths into the army. So all of
09:42this is pushing everywhere and the bombings and so on, pushing people to the border. And they are now
09:49becoming refugees in the border between Myanmar and Thailand. And these refugees are moving into
09:57Bangkok, into Thailand, as well as into Malaysia. So this is a long story, but just to cut it short,
10:05what is happening is the Myanmar problem has become an ASEAN problem. And don't forget, we also have the
10:15movement of drugs along with this, possibly the movement of arms and also the scam centers that are
10:23emerging in the border areas, which involves Malaysians working there and traffic Malaysians working there,
10:32as well as from other countries of the world. That's number one. Number two, the dire need at this time
10:38and that requires Malaysians leadership is actually the humanitarian support.
10:46Now, just to give some context to this, there are almost about a million over people along the border,
10:52along the border and the border is spread is quite long. You have the Thai border together with Myanmar,
10:57there are the Chinese border and then the Indian border. So all of these borders, people are running
11:02away to get some kind of protection, some kind of asylum from these bombs and so on and so forth.
11:09Now, most of them are being supported by European Union and other governments, including at one time
11:17USAID. Now USAID has been cut. USAID has been cut and that actually set a devastating blow
11:25to the existing non-governmental organizations that are providing services like food, like healthcare,
11:32like education to the refugee population. And I think this has to be addressed. So therefore,
11:38there is a need for Malaysia to float the idea of an ASEAN humanitarian fund. An ASEAN humanitarian fund,
11:47which can be used to support the people on the border and number two, and also support the refugees
11:56who are coming into Thailand and also to Malaysia. The number of people coming into Malaysia as a result
12:03of what's happening in Myanmar is quite high. So we need to some kind of a proactive approach and also
12:10finances because the USAID, which is a huge amounts of money, has been cut. So therefore,
12:14there's something that we really have to keep in mind.
12:17You're going to say something?
12:19No, no. All right. We'll continue to wrap up. We've got about a minute or so left. Is there
12:24anything else you want to add?
12:25No, but I must comment. To a conclusion, I must comment that Malaysia is making lots of effort,
12:32the great effort, and the leadership of the Prime Minister has to be recognized here. Compared to all
12:38the other heads of government, this is the first head of state that actually met, although through Zoom,
12:45the resistance groups. Although there are lots of meetings happening below the radar,
12:50but this is the first time there was an open acknowledgement of the head of the National
12:55Union, National Unity Government of Myanmar. So this is actually something very good. In my view,
13:01I think it's a game changer. But you can't stop there. You have to move forward.
13:06Charles, thank you so much for speaking with us today. Charles Santiago, co-chair of the ASEAN
13:11Parliamentarians for Human Rights there. Wrapping up this episode of Consider This.
13:15I'm Melissa Igles, signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching. Good night.
13:29Oh my God.
13:43Good night.
13:50You
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