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00:00Greetings and welcome to the Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked.
00:03I'm Ed Gamble and this is the official video podcast with spoilers galore for Episode 4.
00:08So make sure you've watched that on iPlayer before all this chat.
00:11Coming up, Banished Julie Hesman-Housh gives us her reaction to that round table.
00:15We've got the exclusive moment murdered Bella Ramsey fanned out the identity of our dastardly traitors.
00:21Plus, Series 1 traitor Wilf and celebrity faithful Joe Mahler are here to unpack all the latest castle action.
00:31Hello Wilf, Joe, welcome. Welcome back to the Uncloaked Cellar.
00:35Lovely to see you both. What another huge episode for Celebrity Traitors Series 2.
00:39We are just about to meet Julie Hesman-Housh, but first we need to discuss the big twist at the
00:44end of Episode 4.
00:45We've got Ramesh, Rob, Ross and Leanne all running through the woods for a deadly game of hide and seek
00:51in their individual crypts.
00:53Now we should say, obviously the Tracers know who is in each crypt, but they don't know who's got the
00:58key to lock the door.
01:00They decided to give Leanne the key. Wilf, do we think that's the right decision?
01:03I think it is, yeah, because I think Leanne's not really on the radar.
01:07I think she's one of the people that you'd try and murder just to cause a bit of chaos, you
01:11know, just because it's a bit random.
01:12So I think they've made a good decision there. Obviously Ramesh weren't happy, but...
01:17Yeah, I was expecting a little bit more immediate chivalry from the group of...
01:20Nah.
01:20No.
01:21I'm with Ramesh on that. It's a dog-eat-dog world. I can't believe it. Obviously Ross and Rob were
01:27going to go,
01:28yeah, I think... I loved when Ramesh was like, no, I'm not happy with this decision, but clearly it's going
01:33to go to Leanne.
01:34But I loved when he went, yeah, I'm not happy with this decision. That was it. Fair enough.
01:40Who should they murder? Here's what I want to hear from you guys. Obviously Wilf, OG traitor. Who would you
01:47murder in that scenario?
01:48I would murder... I think Ramesh, even though I love him, sorry Ramesh, but Ramesh and Rob, it's like if
01:56you murder Ramesh, maybe people will be like, oh, Ramesh was a faithful.
01:59Maybe Rob's a traitor because the link between them, you know, the whole duo thing.
02:03And I'm assuming there is an expectation amongst some of the faithful that one of Rob or Ramesh will be
02:07a traitor.
02:07Yeah, some of them will have that in their mind. Yeah.
02:09Yeah, so I'd try and play on that a little bit.
02:12What about you, Joe? Who do you think they should murder?
02:14Lovely to see the return of the Little Notebook, by the way.
02:16Thank you. Having re-looked at my notebook, it's just come to me that Rob begins with an R, Ramesh
02:23begins with an R.
02:24I forgot about what your theories normally are.
02:27And Ross also begins with an R.
02:30So, maybe they do go for Leanne.
02:35Because she doesn't begin with R.
02:36Is that... R says, don't say that one out loud.
02:42Who would they want to get rid of?
02:43They'll probably keep Ross in because they need him for the missions.
02:46Yeah.
02:47He's more interested in the missions than he is playing the game.
02:51Ross.
02:52Ross, he absolutely loves a mission.
02:54Well, we'll have to wait and see who the traitors try and murder in episode five.
02:58Meanwhile, this whole game started with Julie Hesman-Hausch being voted the most trustworthy back in the chapel.
03:03So, naturally, the players have just banished her.
03:05Here's what happened when I caught up with Julie immediately after she left the castle.
03:14Welcome, Julie.
03:16Grab a seat.
03:20Julie, welcome to Uncloaked.
03:22Thank you, Ed.
03:23We're absolutely distraught that you've left the game, of course.
03:25To be completely honest, there was never a more deserving banishment in the history of traitors.
03:32So, I have to take it with good grace.
03:34Even over Richard E. Grant, who was banished for saying that he was a traitor.
03:38I mean, that was scandalous, wasn't it?
03:40Well, let's talk about your roundtable, your banishment.
03:43Because you say that it was the most deserved banishment.
03:45Why do you feel like that?
03:47Because I lost any ability to defend myself.
03:51I was so sketchy through the whole thing.
03:54And I'd gone in very much.
03:55I'd gone in hard on Richard.
03:57I'd gone in hard on my haller.
03:59You know, one triumph, one disaster.
04:02Absolutely fine.
04:03You know, you roll with those punches.
04:05And I thought, I'm saying too much.
04:07I'll just sit back and let it all unfold.
04:09Little knowing that I was chief suspect for that night.
04:13So, I hadn't prepared anything.
04:15James Blunt went at me.
04:17He painted me as this Machiavellian kind of creature that was wandering around, dripping poison into people's ears.
04:23Which I kind of enjoyed, because I've never been characterised like that before.
04:26So, I was a little bit thrilled.
04:28I was a bit like, oh, this is quite spicy.
04:31But, yeah.
04:31But he led the charge against me.
04:33And then everyone joined in.
04:35And there was one point where my mouth, like, dried up to absolutely nothing.
04:39I had no spit left.
04:41And I had to take a big glass of water.
04:42My hand was shaking a bit.
04:44And I was just like, oh, my mouth dried up.
04:47I know I look really, really guilty.
04:49I've seen this on the telly.
04:50Yeah, as a fan of the show, you know that taking a sip of water is the worst thing you
04:53can do.
04:54The worst thing you can do.
04:55But it was worse than that.
04:55My lips, I was, like, clagging.
04:57You know, I spilt it.
05:03I mean, I knew I looked guilty.
05:05To the point where it was making me laugh at myself.
05:08OK, Julie, you're about to find out who the traitors are.
05:11But I'm going to hold back, even just for a little bit longer.
05:14Oh, agony.
05:15To ask you who you think is going to be on my sheet of paper.
05:18For the last couple of days, I've had three names that I've felt that they were.
05:24And those names have been Hannah, Joe Lysa, and Blunty.
05:30Who are your definite faithful?
05:33My definite faithful are Sharon, Miranda, Leanne, Kenny, and I think Bash.
05:45Oh, I'm Ross. I'm Ross. I'm Rob.
05:48Seven.
05:49Julie, I'm going to put you out of your misery now.
05:51We've got a scroll here with the names of the traitors.
05:55Very exciting moment.
05:57It really is.
05:58There we are. That's all yours.
05:59Thank you so much. Thank you.
06:01Right.
06:11James Aicaster.
06:14OK, that is a shock.
06:16Yeah.
06:16That is a shock.
06:16He's doing a good job from your perspective.
06:19Oh, he's doing a brilliant job.
06:21Because he's so methodical and forensic.
06:25And he just says, no, don't go off vibes, go off evidence.
06:29This is the evidence I've got.
06:31OK, next name, please.
06:33Oh, wow. And that's the first one.
06:35Yeah.
06:35Oh, I can't bear it.
06:43Hannah. OK, OK.
06:46That's not a surprise.
06:47Bit of a reprieve there for you, because you've mentioned Hannah as your potential traitor.
06:50Yes.
06:51But annoying that they could have got Hannah last night and they got me instead.
06:54If you came pretty close, you'll notice there's one more fold.
06:57Oh, no.
06:58Please not, Robert.
07:11Wow.
07:15Myajana.
07:17I can't...
07:20Wow.
07:21I am absolutely...
07:22Nobody will guess that.
07:23That is just joy on a scroll.
07:27Thank you for that.
07:29We know nothing in this life.
07:31That's what I've learned.
07:34And Julie's with us in the studio now!
07:39Julie, welcome.
07:40Welcome.
07:41I'm still gutted you've gone.
07:43Even though that was months ago, I'm still sad that you've left the game at this point.
07:47At the time, I sort of felt it was the right time.
07:51But watching it and seeing what happens afterwards, I was a bit gutted as well.
07:55I think you had so much more to give in the game.
07:58I think you were an absolutely ferocious faithful.
08:00I should have put up a bit better fight.
08:02I don't know what happened.
08:03Well, look, you can't control how dry your mouth's going to get.
08:05That's what I'd say.
08:06There's no amount of training you can do for stopping your mouth getting.
08:09It's so true.
08:09Did you not get the vibe that people were going to vote for you at all?
08:12So, you know when you walk in a room and people go quiet?
08:15Did you not get that vibe at all?
08:16No.
08:17I think Julie never noticed people going quiet because she always just walked into a room talking.
08:21So, there was always someone talking in the room and it was Julie every single time.
08:26With an accusation.
08:28Yeah.
08:28Bye, guys.
08:30You were pulling so many people to the side for a chat.
08:33It was like Love Island when you were in there.
08:36I wish it were.
08:37But you were playing the game, Julie.
08:40You came in at 100 miles an hour and you played the game.
08:42Yeah.
08:43And everyone had advised me.
08:44Everyone in my life had said.
08:46Because I'm a massive fan of the game.
08:48Everyone had said, remember, Julie, when you go in, keep a low profile for the first couple of days.
08:55Just, you know, keep your head below the parapet.
08:58That's when you're in your most danger.
08:59Just keep it on the easy.
09:02Yeah.
09:03So, I wore a bright red dress.
09:05It's like the front of the church.
09:07Greeted everyone who walked in.
09:09And then got brought to the most.
09:11I was going to compliment you on that.
09:12It was like you were the only one that went up and went.
09:14I loved it.
09:15How are you doing?
09:15How are you doing?
09:16And actually, it really backfired on you.
09:18Oh, but actually, tactics-wise, the craziest thing you could have done.
09:21But politeness-wise, fantastic.
09:23You're a good human.
09:24Well, it was kind of polite, but then I did get myself into a bit of a fix with it.
09:31Because I did it to a couple of people, and then I felt like I had to do it with
09:34everybody.
09:34Oh, you committed.
09:35Even though you didn't want to do it to everyone.
09:36Yeah.
09:37Everyone else sat next to each other.
09:38Richard came in, and it was like brooding in a church.
09:40And you had to walk back three rows to say-
09:42Three rows.
09:43Hello, it's so nice to meet you.
09:44Three rows.
09:45Now, obviously, you were shocked by James and Maya being traitors.
09:48Yeah.
09:49But chuffed that you got Hannah.
09:51Everybody had Hannah.
09:52I mean, I'm watching that round table, and I'm like, how did I get banished?
09:56Yeah.
09:56How did I get banished from this?
09:58She was sketchier than I was.
10:00Does that soften the blow at all of being banished, that you got Hannah right?
10:04No, not really.
10:05No, not really, because it was such an obvious one.
10:08I mean, I really, really did.
10:10She had a wet mouth, though.
10:11She had a wet mouth.
10:12She was able to talk and defend herself.
10:14She did quite well with defending herself, to be fair.
10:16We did say that, didn't we?
10:17She did quite well defending herself.
10:18She kind of did, but there was a lot from Hannah of, yeah, I don't know, I can't explain that.
10:24She tried a fascinating bit of gameplay by coming to your defence, Julie.
10:28The mistake that you see the Faithfuls make time and time again is they take the people
10:32who stand out, the most trustworthy, the people who've got a reputation for being smart, right?
10:38And then the Faithful kill them, and then you weaken the Faithfuls overall.
10:45But I think that what we need to be doing, honestly, is looking at everybody, looking around
10:50the table and making accusations about everybody, not just the most whatever.
10:54I don't want to make the same mistake that we always made.
10:56Suddenly Hannah's come alive, because you've shrunk today.
10:58I have shrunk today.
10:59Suddenly, clever Hannah has come alive, and she's got theories, so tell us.
11:06Julie, I'm not going to vote for you.
11:08I know that I'm the Faithful.
11:09I don't know whether you are or not, but I don't want us to make the same mistake.
11:13When Hannah was delivering that at the roundtable, it's not a good sign.
11:17If I was a traitor and I'm doing something at the roundtable, and I look and one of my
11:20fellow traitors is covering his mouth, just like, oh, God, I better get off this track.
11:26But what do we think of that tactic?
11:28Do we think that's a good move to try and defend you at the roundtable?
11:31Well, it worked, didn't it?
11:33I mean, everybody was gunning for Hannah, and then it suddenly turned on me.
11:38I think it was the shield more than anything, more than me dripping with traitorousness.
11:44I think it's the fact that I got that shield, because I was worried about that.
11:51I thought there must be something more to this.
11:53And as I said several times, I thought that maybe I'd inadvertently recruited a traitor.
12:00I thought that would be a good move.
12:01Well, it sent people into a spiral, this first church thing.
12:06And, you know, all it was, was just a quick thing at the top to see who was the most
12:09trustworthy.
12:10Yeah.
12:10I know we can't ever find it out, but I'd love to have known what would happen if you'd
12:15given out both of the shields, rather than just keeping one for yourself and just, and
12:20then, you know, put their names out there.
12:22I'm sure Blunty would have had a theory.
12:23He seems so sure on, what happened at the beginning of the game was we anointed a traitor.
12:30We anointed a traitor.
12:33So sure on it as well.
12:35Julie, who would you have given that second shield to if you didn't keep it for yourself?
12:38I would probably have given it to Hannah, because Hannah was the one who chose me.
12:43So she might have been in the firing line anyway at this point.
12:47Yeah, maybe.
12:48Maybe.
12:49Maybe, yeah.
12:49I mean, I don't know, because the shield theory seemed to come into play several days in.
12:57Yeah, it gripped everyone.
12:58I think when you have nothing to go on, you can only think about what's happened in the
13:01game and start theorising around that.
13:03Well, they had something to go on, which was that both Jerry and Hannah turned up for
13:07breakfast the morning after a murder.
13:10Yeah.
13:10I thought Hannah played that really wrong then.
13:13She came in, she was like, oh, I don't know what's happened.
13:15I don't know why I'm here.
13:16It was really weird.
13:17And then Jerry said, what about Richard?
13:23It's really good.
13:24What about Richard?
13:25It's a great moment, but it's also a really good impression.
13:29The fact that it just came out of nowhere, like a completely different conversation.
13:32What about Richard?
13:33And then Kenny turns around and went, what?
13:37But I did a full-on Kate as well in this episode, which I didn't realise that I'd done,
13:42which was to go, Bella, not Bella, that doesn't make any sense.
13:47It was huge.
13:48It was huge.
13:49That was for the back row of the theatre, Julie.
13:51That was incredible.
13:52Julie's brekkie response, big.
13:56And the big is in big and it's the dot, dot, dot and the dot, dot, dot signals, not good.
14:01Yeah.
14:01It's too big.
14:02No.
14:03Too big.
14:04But I don't feel like that was used particularly against me, actually.
14:07It was in my mind.
14:08It's got on the shield.
14:10It added to the texture, I think, of the day.
14:12What was it like watching the fallout after your exit, Julie?
14:16It was very gratifying.
14:18Yeah, it could.
14:18Yeah, very gratifying indeed.
14:20Yeah.
14:21I mean, my thing all the way through was that I couldn't ever help but being quietly thrilled
14:27that famous people were talking about me, even if they were trying to banish me.
14:32Julie, you know you're famous too, right?
14:34I don't feel like in the same way.
14:36No, you're a national treasure.
14:37So, even when they all started on me at the round table, you can see I'm actually quietly
14:42delighted.
14:44Go on, more.
14:45Give me more.
14:47I'm like, what were you saying?
14:48I'm watching the episode and seeing people in coin who's talking about me, I'm like,
14:55absolutely fabulous talking about me.
14:58And, yeah, so that definitely softened the blow for me.
15:01But I think it was my time.
15:03I think it was my time when I went.
15:05I disagree.
15:06I think you should have been in a lot longer.
15:08Yeah.
15:08I really do.
15:09Now, somebody else who was a particularly vocal faithful was Bella Ramsey, who we saw
15:13getting murdered in the middle of the night at the start of the episode.
15:17I had a catch up with Bella after they left the castle and they got to finally find out
15:20the identity of the traitors.
15:22Here's what happened.
15:30Welcome to Uncloaked, Bella.
15:32Thank you for joining us.
15:33Thanks for having me.
15:36Gutted you're out so early.
15:37Yeah.
15:37Very sad to see you leave.
15:39Yeah, thank you.
15:39Murdered, of course.
15:40Of course.
15:41Big question, straight away.
15:43Why do you think the traitors murdered you?
15:45I think they murdered me because I was too lucrative with my opinions and my thoughts
15:49and my observations.
15:51And what I was about to do was I was about to come in today with a blank slate and
15:55start
15:56from the beginning.
15:56And I was excited to do that.
15:57And I think that they knew that I would get to the bottom of them eventually.
16:01I want to talk about the captain's hat theory.
16:03Yeah.
16:04Can you talk us through what happened with the captain's hat?
16:06And when you go into a new series of traitors, you don't know the sorts of things you're going
16:10to end up saying.
16:10I wouldn't have put a million pounds on me saying, talk us through the captain's hat theory.
16:15During the mission, there was a captain's hat on a skeleton, which now I'm like, it's
16:20suspicious.
16:21And I, in the joy of the moment, was like, that's fun.
16:24Took the captain's hat, was rushing to get out of the water before the explosion, put
16:29it on my head, realised it really wasn't shaped for my head.
16:32Saw Ross Kemp as I was running out of the water being like, there's a perfectly shaped
16:37head for a captain's hat.
16:39And plonked it on.
16:40And especially because he'd been like, really the captain of the mission.
16:43Yeah.
16:43And then, as we were then waiting, he said, he was like, I've just had a thought.
16:47I was like, what's your thought?
16:49And he's like, have you just murdered me in plain sight?
16:51I was like, no.
16:52And then from then, it spreads like wildfire, doesn't it?
16:55And then it wasn't, it was, maybe I'd murdered him.
16:58And then when he didn't die, it was, oh, he must have been recruited.
17:02Right.
17:03I see.
17:03So there was never a thought that maybe the captain's hat wasn't significant in any
17:06way whatsoever.
17:07It was either murder or recruitment.
17:09Absolutely.
17:10Not, nobody accepted that it was just for fun.
17:13Now, Bella, you're about to find out who the traitors are.
17:15And I can see you are absolutely fizzing and giddy with excitement to find out.
17:20Yeah.
17:20But first, I want to know who you think they are.
17:24Joe.
17:27Hannah.
17:29And Leanne.
17:30And who do you think are the definite faithful?
17:32Miranda.
17:33She's the only person I'm 100% sure.
17:36If she's on there, I will actually maybe die.
17:39I'm already dead, aren't I?
17:41Murdered.
17:41Ooh.
17:42Oh, Ross.
17:49And Julie.
17:51Can I change my mind?
17:52No.
17:53Have I locked it in?
17:54You've locked it in, but I don't want you to worry.
17:56It doesn't mean...
17:57I don't have to go back into the game.
17:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:59Yeah, that's true.
18:00I keep forgetting.
18:00I'm done.
18:01This is fine.
18:01You're not in the game anymore.
18:02This is okay.
18:03And we're going to tell you now.
18:06Here we go.
18:10Oh, dear.
18:12I'm a bit nervous.
18:13This is the most exciting.
18:22James, eh?
18:27Seems like a bit of a shock.
18:29I had a sick feeling that it was him.
18:33Oh, that's dark.
18:36Oh, that's so good.
18:40He's excellent.
18:41Next name, please, Bella.
18:54Hannah.
18:55So you had suspicion around Hannah.
18:57Do you think there's suspicion around Hannah floating about the castle a little bit?
19:01Yeah, I think there's still some suspicion around Hannah.
19:03You may notice there's one more fold there.
19:05Yeah.
19:06So please, have a look.
19:08Tell me who it is.
19:08If this is Judy or Bash, I'm going to die.
19:17Maya.
19:19After seeing who the traitors are, do you think it's a traitor or a faithful win?
19:24Traitor.
19:25And I'm now rooting solely for James Acaster.
19:29I really, really, really want him to win.
19:32That is absolutely brilliant.
19:36Yeah.
19:36Give it up for Bella, everyone.
19:43Now, Bella sends their apologies.
19:45They're busy.
19:47There's something about filming The Last of Us.
19:49Good series, that.
19:51Bella obviously had a lot of influence over the group, Julie.
19:54Even in death.
19:56Yeah.
19:56What do we think that was?
19:58Obviously, having met Bella, they're quite a magical person and very, very erudite.
20:04But also so young, but seem to hold those round tables so perfectly.
20:08I absolutely love that you call them magical, because that is such a perfect word for them.
20:13They're otherworldly.
20:14And wise and erudite, like you say, one of the smartest people that I've ever met.
20:21And just with a serenity that is incredibly charismatic, and everybody was in the thrall.
20:35Yeah.
20:36So I think that they absolutely had all of our attention all the time.
20:41It was a good move to murder Bella.
20:44They were dangerous.
20:45Do we think that's the case, Wolf?
20:47If you were a traitor, would you have murdered Bella?
20:49Yeah, 100%, yeah.
20:51I think as soon as I get a feeling that somebody's super intelligent, it's like,
20:55I need to get them out as soon as possible.
20:57Yeah.
20:57I think they wanted to break up what they said was that little, very passionate clique of traitor hunters.
21:05And Bella was probably the smartest.
21:10You can't have groups in there.
21:11You know, when you're a traitor, the best thing to do is either, like,
21:14you just need to get rid of all of these groups, because they vote together.
21:17Yeah.
21:17So it's like, try and, unless you've got a traitor in each group, sort of dictating what's going on,
21:21you need to sort of try and get rid of them.
21:23So it was a good...
21:24Well, that's what, when I go in next year, I'm taking out Jedwood straight away.
21:33When you go in next year, yeah?
21:34Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:36So, will you still do Uncloaked?
21:42Obviously, Ed's got a notepad.
21:44I get an iPad, yeah.
21:45It gets upgraded and I can also do...
21:47James here, Castor.
21:49Yeah, I will, actually, yeah.
21:54Now, look, we're only just getting started.
21:55We've got loads more to unpack with Julie over on BBC Sounds.
21:58We need to have a proper chat about a certain Mr. Richard E. Grant.
22:02Plus, Wilf and Joe will be sticking around, too.
22:04Scan the QR code below to listen to that bonus episode of Uncloaked,
22:07only on BBC Sounds.
22:08It's there right now, so you can play it while you floss before bed.
22:12And remember, faithfuls floss.
22:14We're back straight after episode five.
22:16Will anyone be murdered in the hide-or-seek game?
22:18We'll have to wait to find out.
22:20My thanks to Joe, Wilf, Bella Ramsey and Julie Hesman-Hausch.
22:23I've been Ed Gamble.
22:24Stay faithful.