00:00I quickly want to cut across to former Chief Election Commissioner, Dr. S.Y. Khureshi, joining me on this topic.
00:06Dr. Khureshi, welcome. Dr. Khureshi, you've been CEC of India.
00:11Tell me this, Rahul Gandhi believes democracy is dead.
00:15He's blamed the Prime Minister, the Home Minister, RSS Chief Mohan Bhagwat and Gyanesh Kumar, sir.
00:21This is happening just when you saw by-elections.
00:24For example, Nandi Graham saw more than 71% voter turnout.
00:28Reji Nagar saw more than 70% voter turnout, sir.
00:32Is democracy dead in your view, sir?
00:39Well, I would rather not comment on a politician or politic.
00:44But the fact is that democracy has been gravely damaged by the events of the last two years.
00:52The way the SIR has been done and 13 crore people have been eliminated very responsibly and we thought there
01:02was no choice left.
01:04But fortunately, Indian Express expose brought the truth to light and it has revived our hopes in democracy.
01:14People have, the way people have responded, have responding, the media is responding.
01:20Sir, you've been former Chief Election Commissioner.
01:23You know, I want to understand from you.
01:25I want to understand from you, sir.
01:2713 crore, the figure that is being put of 13 crore, the 13 crore names have been disenfranchised, sir.
01:33The EC is saying of that 2.8 crore are dead, 6.3 crore relocated, 1 crore are duplicate names,
01:403 crore are absent and not traceable or what's to that effect, sir?
01:45Sir, you've been CEC.
01:47Are these numbers contested?
01:49Are these numbers untrue?
01:55Yes, sure.
01:56No, first of all, let me make it very clear that for the last 75 years, we have been doing
02:01exactly all that, removing the dead voters.
02:04Every single dead voter should be removed.
02:07And in the last 75 years, we have been trying to do that, but still, some people are always found
02:14there.
02:14Secondly, the migrants, yes, remove the migrants, no doubt, but show them elsewhere what is happening here.
02:22Everybody is migrating from everywhere, but nobody, there is no in-migration.
02:27Where are they landing up?
02:28So you delete me here, but you delete, include me somewhere else.
02:32Here, we don't see any inclusion happening anywhere.
02:35Everywhere, deletion from Bihar and UP, one can understand, people have gone in search of job.
02:42And they've come to Delhi.
02:43But where are Delhi people going?
02:45And where are Bangalore people going?
02:47Everybody is going.
02:49So what the hell is happening?
02:50So, therefore, in the name of migrants, delete everybody, duplicate, certainly, correct it.
03:00We have been trying to do it with limited success all these years.
03:03And remove the dead voters, no doubt, but all of those have to be corrections which need to be done.
03:10Sir, okay.
03:12Okay, sir, but explain this.
03:14Names have been deleted.
03:16Names have also been added of voters in different parts of the country.
03:19So just look at the figures.
03:21Because since you've been CEC, you understand how the system works.
03:25Coming to this figure of 2.8 crore dead or 6.3 crore relocated, what are these numbers, what were
03:33these numbers in the past, for example, in the previous SIRs or the 2003 SIR or the regular revision of
03:41electoral rolls?
03:42Were these similar numbers or is it drastic this time?
03:48Well, SIR actually, SIR happened only in 2002 and 2003 last.
03:54But it is important to remember that after 2003 SIR, the then Election Commission, who were also wise people, they
04:04took a decision that there is no need for SIR in the future.
04:08SIR in any case was not the word in the law or the constitution anywhere, intensive revision.
04:13There is no need because now the rules have been computerized.
04:17And we have Gaurav Savan permanently on our computer, SIR in the computer.
04:22All we will do, we'll do summary revision, which involves that somebody, BLO will come to your house and show
04:27Gaurav, these are the three, four voters in your house.
04:30These are the details.
04:31Is that right?
04:32So if they're right, he goes to the neck door.
04:36One question could have been, now since the whole exercise started, in the name of Ghusbathia, one question could have
04:43been added for the BLO.
04:44So when you go to Gaurav Savan's house or Qureshi's house, ask them one more question, have you seen a
04:50stranger in your neighborhood, a new face in the last one year, which could be a potential Ghusbathia?
04:56So if somebody says yes, that gets flagged and then you can go and investigate, who is this guy for
05:03the last six months?
05:04So this was the way, this is what we have been doing.
05:06Now, they are saying, oh, dead voters should not be removed, you know, but what is the guarantee that every
05:13person shown as dead voters is a dead voters?
05:17People have appeared in the Supreme Court, say that we have been declared as dead and here we are.
05:22So, so much of the authenticity of this poll.
05:25Okay, so, so, sir, I want to understand from you, are these administrative lapses, are these administrative lacuna or do
05:37you see a malafide intent in what is happening?
05:43Well, yes, you know, that's a very good question.
05:47I have been very reticent, very hesitant to comment on my successor.
05:51But if you collect the evidence from here and there, the way deletions have been happening, the fact that Delhi
05:58computer has taken over, the only legal authority, ERO,
06:02he is the only person who can change the role, addition or deletion, only one, by law, not his boss,
06:11the DC, not his boss, boss, boss, the DC, nobody had the power, only she, and was bypassed.
06:17Somebody there sitting in Delhi on the computer was doing all the deletion.
06:21And the Goa instance, although it may be just 97 numbers, compared to 13 crores, it is insignificant, but actually
06:30that brings out the point very legally.
06:32There, the guy is protesting, I have checked out, these are genuine voters, please get them back.
06:38And computer says, no, we will not get them back.
06:41So, this kind of irresponsible action is not acceptable.
06:45This is not how you can play with democracy.
06:47So, therefore, you ask the question whether it is malefidee, I have now come to the conclusion, yes, it was
06:53malefidee, particularly to delete a particular section of voters.
06:56And I have no hesitation today, with great reluctance, I say, that basic targets for the Muslims.
07:03And potentially all non-BJP voters, they were the target, which is why, and we have seen 75% from
07:11one booth, every Muslim booth, 60% gone, 70% gone, 80% gone.
07:16What the hell is happening?
07:18And they thought they will get away with it.
07:20Sir, that's a very, very serious charge you are leveling.
07:24You are saying here on India today, on India First, that Muslims are being singled out, Muslim names are being
07:31deleted from the election commission.
07:34Sir, how do you back this with evidence, sir?
07:37Because if this is actually happening, shouldn't this be backed with evidence?
07:42Because this could lead to inflamed situation, point one, point two.
07:47If you were CC, what would you have done differently?
07:51For example, if MPs want to come and meet you, if they are protesting on the street, what would you
07:56have done, sir?
08:00Yeah, two things.
08:01Number one, this kind of situation would not have arisen in my time, because this accumulation of what was happening.
08:10But I'll give you one example.
08:12You know, in my time, the anti-EVM campaign was at its peak.
08:16Yes.
08:17The loudest critic was the BJP.
08:20They even wrote a book called Democracy at Risk with a foreword by Mr. Advani.
08:25When I came, that was my style.
08:27My style is always discussion, consultation.
08:30I immediately called a meeting of political parties, all political parties.
08:35And it was led by Chandra Babu and I, too.
08:38First, when he came in, I said, Chandra Babuji, I'm surprised.
08:42And he's a technology man.
08:44Technology icon.
08:45And he was a technology man, sir.
08:47So, you know, you made two, three interesting statements.
08:49He said, look, we are not saying that the EVM have manipulated the results or they will do it in
08:54future.
08:55Then I said, what are you saying?
08:56He said, it is not transparent.
08:59What does it mean?
09:00He said, when you press a button, it goes into a machine.
09:03Whether it is going to the right candidate, we can't see.
09:05So, I said, what is the solution?
09:07He said, VVPAT, believe me, Gaurav, in the same meeting, because it was a wise suggestion.
09:13In the same meeting, we accepted the suggestion.
09:15And we told the two companies to start developing the VVPAT.
09:19Okay.
09:20That's right.
09:21That's how the VVPAT system came.
09:22So, what you're advising is, CEC should invite representatives of the opposite for a cup of tea and have that
09:29discussion.
09:29Let's see if that happens.
09:30Mr. Qureshi, for joining me here on this India Today special broadcast.
09:33Many thanks, sir.
