- 1 day ago
Jeremy White and Joe DiBiase have a discussion about the difficult position that Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen finds himself in with the Sabres. They bring in Owen to explain why he thinks he’s going to have a very difficult time getting Sabres fans to believe in him, and the guys agree. This leads to a longer discussion about his path up as the Sabres goaltender. Sneaky highlights how the team has had no other good options for years, and forced Luukkonen into the role prematurely.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00I don't know.
00:00Owen, you did bring this up the other day,
00:02and we didn't really flesh it out too much, the idea that,
00:05and I don't know, I don't want to feed into this,
00:09but just frankly having the discussion, you know,
00:12you're in a spot where you're like,
00:14I think that he's under the microscope.
00:17I'll say it that way.
00:18The way you said it was, I think it's kind of done for him here.
00:21Yeah.
00:21That people are too laser-focused on everything that he does
00:26to give him a fair shot anymore,
00:28just because of, probably because of the no-trade thing.
00:31I think, yeah, I think it's a combination of that
00:34plus I think the bouncer in the playoffs last year
00:38will forever stick in a lot of people's minds.
00:41I don't think that's fair, but I think it's going to happen.
00:43And I think that the ride we've been on with him
00:47throughout his career already, just in general,
00:50sort of all add up to, I think, a guy that's going to have
00:54a really hard time having anybody believe in him in this town.
00:58I think it's really, I think it's tough because I don't think
01:01he necessarily deserves that, but that's what I think
01:04is going to happen here.
01:05I think it's done.
01:07I think he's cooked here because people don't like him.
01:11Well, it's not that they don't like him.
01:13Well, I think they don't like the idea of him being the goalie.
01:16It's a trust thing for me.
01:18Yeah.
01:19Right.
01:20He's great.
01:21He's a very good dude from everything I've heard about.
01:24I've had a couple conversations with him.
01:26He's great.
01:26But people don't like seeing him in the net for the Sabres anymore.
01:30I think they're sick of it.
01:31They don't trust it.
01:32Yeah.
01:33And that's, again, I don't think it's totally fair,
01:35but it certainly feels that way to me.
01:38I mean, the other night, Ellis gets introduced and it's a crowd pop.
01:43Like, it's like, okay, it's somebody else.
01:46And that was striking to me that that was how that went.
01:50And I think we all, you know, we've talked about the lose mixed with booze
01:54at the home opener when he was introduced.
01:57And, like, that to me says a lot.
02:00And that's, I think he's in a really hard position right now.
02:04Yeah.
02:05Well, listen, Winnipeg has a goalie now,
02:08so maybe they get closer to making their move.
02:14Stuart Skinner's, like, number one in the league in saves
02:16and second in save percentage through three games.
02:19So they're happy over there.
02:21Most of the way through this, the idea of trading for Hellebuck
02:23has been appealing on the level of, like, you could have an all-world goaltender.
02:27Yeah.
02:27But it's always been like, all right, well, what's the price?
02:29I mean, you want to get into the weeds of, like, age of Hellebuck, sure.
02:32But the price is thought to have been a skater or two.
02:36Let's go through some of the names.
02:38Ready?
02:38The number one name that was put in this deal a thousand times.
02:41Jack Quinn.
02:42Mm-hmm.
02:43What do you think?
02:45Well, are they paying him?
02:47That's the big question.
02:48Are they going to pay him?
02:49Like, do you want to trade Jack Quinn now for Hellebuck
02:50or do you want to give him $10 million a year?
02:52Because he's looking like he's going to go for $10 million a year.
02:54So that's the question there.
02:56Right.
02:56Other names, like McLeod.
02:58Fourth line.
02:59Yeah.
02:59Other names, Helenius, because you're – he's one of the –
03:03you already paid the other two.
03:05Or you haven't even played Kulik yet, but –
03:06Mirka was usually the guy that came up.
03:09Mirka.
03:09Mirka, okay.
03:11Like, none of the pieces that I feel like were ever in that deal,
03:14I'm, like, afraid to move.
03:16Okay.
03:16Like, Quinn would be – that would hurt because he looks so good right now,
03:20but I just – I'm not sure that they're paying him.
03:23Well, I guess that's the part for me.
03:25They might not be paying him.
03:26If I got rid of him, wouldn't my questions about scoring go up even more?
03:30Yeah.
03:30Like, I've got one of my better scorers on the team that's going to help me
03:34replace Alex Tuck's production.
03:35Yes.
03:36And now I'm just going to send him out, too.
03:37Yeah, that's –
03:38That's one where I think you want to see, like,
03:41Consta or Kulik or somebody, like, blow up in that department
03:46to make you feel okay about it.
03:47Yeah.
03:47That's what I think you would need in that scenario.
03:50If you're going to trade Quinn, you'd want to see five games
03:53where Kulik and Helen Hughes score a few times each to make you feel like
03:58you can afford to lose that.
04:01Yeah.
04:01He might not fit anyway because the whole story all summer has been
04:05Winnipeg wants centers.
04:07So, like, he might not even be the real part of it.
04:10Like, maybe it would just be McLeod and other stuff.
04:13Or Norris if they want Norris.
04:15Or Norris along with that.
04:17But you said this the other day.
04:19I had originally thought the opposite, that if they're good right away,
04:23Winnipeg, that could actually increase the chance that they would just move
04:26hell about it because then they'd be more open to futures.
04:29Yes, because they would –
04:30Half the reason Winnipeg would be stuck on this idea is because if we do that,
04:34everyone else will want to leave, the GM will get fired,
04:37and we'll just wander the desert.
04:39Right.
04:39If instead they're good and can send them off for a couple pieces
04:44and make the playoffs and they can show their other players actually all those
04:47fears, we're fine.
04:48We're not going to crater season tickets.
04:50We're not going to be talked about as a franchise that can't survive
04:53financially because we did it all.
04:55Yep.
04:55So maybe them being good is better.
04:58And they're 3-0-1, which is seven points, which is the most in the West so far
05:01for the first week of the season.
05:03Good start.
05:04That is a very good start for them.
05:06And both their goalies, Skinner at least, has been good.
05:10So, yeah, and maybe you just give them one piece that's helping them now
05:15that they could sell that part of it.
05:16And like, okay, we could do that.
05:18We just need one piece that will help us now.
05:20Maybe that's your McLeod.
05:21And then you give us a bunch of other future stuff and, all right,
05:24we'll end this because we're good and Shifley's happy, basically.
05:30The Sabres would also have to figure out what to do with the rest of the goalies.
05:33That probably means sending one out, if not two,
05:36because you're not doing a three-goalie system if you –
05:39No, you'd send, like – yeah, you'd trade Lyon away and just, like,
05:42have Ellis be your backup.
05:44Yeah.
05:44And Lucanen does what?
05:46Also get traded away?
05:47Forgot about him.
05:47You forgot about the starter tonight who we opened the segment talking about.
05:51You would have to move him, yes.
05:53Yeah.
05:53But you might not have to do that now.
05:55You just – you know, he's your number two until the deadline,
05:59and maybe Edmonton would want him right now.
06:02Maybe.
06:03You could probably find a spot for him.
06:05I just – as we lay this all out for the billionth time since June 1st,
06:10I think it's just not going to happen.
06:14No?
06:15We haven't done the hellometer in a while.
06:17No, we haven't.
06:18I just don't – I don't think it's going to happen.
06:20Isn't that every team's attitude, though, with him?
06:23Yes.
06:24Someone will trade for him, and I bet every team's attitude or fan base's attitude,
06:31if you're a Carolina fan or you're a Utah fan or a San Jose fan,
06:36you've probably been talking about this since June, and if it comes up now,
06:40it's – this is never actually going to happen.
06:42He's going to get traded somewhere.
06:45Eventually.
06:46So somewhere is going to get him and be like, I thought there was no chance of this.
06:49Maybe next year.
06:50Maybe next offseason.
06:52Maybe at the deadline to a team that he would accept that he would get a fresh start with.
06:57I'm thinking about how when Evander Kane got traded.
06:58It was February.
06:59He was hurt and not going to play until the following year, right?
07:02Right.
07:02I remember that.
07:03That's February.
07:04Eichel got traded in November?
07:05Yes.
07:06Okay.
07:06So a little further into the season?
07:08Yep.
07:09I don't know.
07:11I'm wishing Lukan in luck.
07:13The save percentage is ghastly, but the expected goals is not ghastly.
07:20That's just a little sub what you want it to be, right?
07:23It's minus three in two games.
07:24I mean, that's not necessarily –
07:25That's pretty bad.
07:27That's not great.
07:27That's not great.
07:28This is the every other thing, though.
07:30Like, every other year, he's in the negative.
07:32Actually, to be fair, in seven years in the NHL, five of his seasons are in the negative.
07:37But the ones he's played a lot of games, it's back and forth.
07:40Yeah.
07:40He's got a negative year, then a positive year, then a negative year, and last year was the
07:44best year for that.
07:44So, it's not off to a great start if we are – if subscribing to – it is just legitimately
07:52a UPL rollercoaster.
07:54Yeah.
07:54And if he had a good year last year, then him holding up to that, he's just not been
07:59that player in his career.
08:01So, the good news, I guess, is that they have – this has always been my positive attitude
08:07on if they don't make another trade for a goalie.
08:09If I do get the bad UPL year, I have two other goalies that I might be able to rely
08:15on.
08:16But even their questions.
08:18So, that's the best part.
08:20Like, some of these years when Lukan – two years ago was his worst season by far.
08:23Like, he was a minus 12 goal saved above expected that entire season.
08:27He was an 888 save percentage, playing 55 games.
08:31Like, that year – that's a bad UPL year.
08:34There was nobody behind him.
08:35There was no other – Reimer took over, like, at the very end of the season when they
08:40were out of it.
08:41Like, there just wasn't another guy.
08:44It was Levi, right?
08:45At the beginning of the year, it was Levi, and you couldn't do that.
08:48And now, Lyon and Ellis.
08:51I mean, not all world goalies, but more reliable to me than what they would have had the last
08:57time UPL had a down season.
08:58Fair, fair.
08:59803-0550 if you want to throw this at us, throw anything at us on the Savers real quick
09:03to open up here.
09:04Is there any sort of game we can play with the power play to have fun with it?
09:09Can we do anything?
09:10You want to do, like, Sammy Squares, but the power play?
09:13Do something.
09:14Like, they score a goal that day on the power play?
09:17Yeah.
09:18We need a promotion or something, you know?
09:19Like, it used to be – I think of this all the time for Tim Hortons.
09:23It used to be, like, at Bills games, you get two touchdowns, everyone gets a free coffee.
09:27Right, right.
09:27And for the Bills, for a long time, that wasn't a guarantee.
09:30Then they'd get the two touchdowns, and you'd get your free coffee.
09:33In fact, my brother-in-law still chants coffee every time the Bills score their second
09:36touchdown, even though it's very normal for them to get two touchdowns.
09:40When were they running that promotion?
09:41Oh.
09:41Like, mid-drought?
09:42A while.
09:43It might even still be the case.
09:45No, they can't.
09:46Just get a free coffee.
09:47They've probably scored two touchdowns every game for four years.
09:50A lot.
09:50It happens a lot now.
09:52It did not used to happen.
09:53So, anyway, what should it be?
09:56If they score a power play goal, everybody in town gets a taco or something.
10:00Chicken sandwich.
10:01Chicken sandwich.
10:02The whole arena.
10:03The Sabres should lean into it.
10:05If they get a power play goal, everyone gets a free something.
10:09Because, I mean, I don't know.
10:11That might bring out the boos.
10:12Maybe if they don't score a power play, we all get a taco.
10:15And it kind of just softens everyone up a bit.
10:17I guess everybody's already booing a little bit.
10:19Like, mid-power play sometimes when they're not getting set up.
10:22Right.
10:22There are three things in the arena that get people mad.
10:24It's going to be the power play, the goalie in that tonight, and the refs.
10:27And that's really it.
10:28But that's what's going to get people fired up.
10:30Right.
10:31And I do think with Lucanen, it is a little bit unfair, over-focused on.
10:38It really comes down to the fact that does it only come down to the idea that the reporting
10:42is that he's the reason this move they wanted didn't happen.
10:45If it had been lying and he had blocked it, would this be looked at for him?
10:51I mean, I don't know.
10:52A guy like that has a no move.
10:53But the idea is, why are we focused on him?
10:57He's not been consistently terrible.
11:00They have a good team in front of him.
11:01They just went and won a playoff round, and he won playoff games along the way.
11:06I'm not trying to take up for him totally.
11:08I just feel like the whole issue has centered and driven right to him.
11:13I think there is a defense for him that he's been put in a position that is probably not fair
11:21to him over the years.
11:22And I don't necessarily think it's about the Hellebuck deal.
11:26I mean, the original deal that Sheveldayoff probably should have just taken at the draft,
11:32Lucanen had no ability to say no at that point.
11:35Right, right.
11:35That's before he has a no-trade clause.
11:37I think part of it is not his fault in that he is just probably not a No. 1 goalie
11:45in the National Hockey League.
11:46And that's fine.
11:47Guys can have long careers in the NHL without being a true No. 1.
11:52But we're seven years into this guy's career, and his career save percentage is under 900.
11:57Like, they were at a point as a franchise where they were down in the dumps,
12:02and he did not have good production in the AHL, but they had nowhere else to turn
12:09because it was 40-year-old Craig Anderson, and that was basically it.
12:13But, so, what happened four or five years ago?
12:16Lucanen's up here, despite not playing well in the AHL, because that's just it.
12:21That's where we're at.
12:21He was drafted high, and we're rebuilding as a franchise post-cycle.
12:26Let's just call it.
12:26We're going to call him up, and that's going to be our guy.
12:28So now we're into year five of him being a regular NHL-er,
12:33and maybe it should have only been like year three, maybe year four.
12:36But we've seen him so long, and he's been asked for so long to be the lead guy
12:41when he's probably not a lead guy that that filters in.
12:47It filters in for me, I'm sure, because what's my expectation every year?
12:50It's what they ask him to be, which is the number one lead goalie.
12:53And if he had just this whole time been a guy hanging out playing 30 games a year
12:59that was kind of the, you know, the 1B to somebody else that's the 1A along the side,
13:06like maybe it would be a very different attitude towards him,
13:08and we would just appreciate him for what he is, which is,
13:11yeah, he's an inconsistent goalie that sometimes will give you a great game
13:14or even sometimes will give you a great season,
13:16and then other times you'll really, really be upset about it.
13:21It's what they've asked him to be for seven years.
13:23That's what it is, in my opinion.
13:26We also might be spoiled when it comes to goaltenders historically
13:29because, you know, for the last 25, 30 years,
13:33there's been two Hall of Fame goaltenders for this team.
13:36I don't want to say spoiled. I mean, it's been a while.
13:39When's the last time you felt like you had the guy that was in that that it felt right?
13:42It's been...
13:43Yeah, I guess Miller's 12 years ago now.
13:45Yeah, it's been a decade since they had a guy that you were pretty confident
13:49was going to be their guy, or at least that they would have said is their number one.
13:52I mean, Enroth was okay to good, right?
13:55I thought Enroth...
13:56Allmark was great, but he just couldn't stay healthy.
13:58Allmark was pretty good, and then he left.
14:00So, yeah, I'm wondering.
14:03I'm wondering how this thing gets approached from here on out
14:05if the Sabres want to give it a month and then have an internal meeting.
14:08Like, they're not...
14:09I don't think that they are internally living and dying every single game,
14:12like I might be.
14:13If they lose to the Stars tonight and Lucan gets lit up,
14:16all of a sudden I'm looking at the schedule and thinking like,
14:18oh, man, you know, these teams coming in.
14:20Utah, Florida, Montreal, Toronto, Montreal.
14:22The big stretch here.
14:24Dallas is one and two so far.
14:26They're off to the worst start of any of these teams you're about to face.
14:28So, anyway.
14:31They're 0 for 8 on the power play so far.
14:32Dallas is?
14:33Yeah.
14:33All right.
14:35Someone might get off the mat tonight.
14:37Maybe we should have some sort of bet about the power play
14:39versus the penalty kill, which will score first.
14:42The penalty kill gets its chances, you know?
14:45Yeah.
14:46But they've looked good.
14:47If there's anybody I'd like to see look good tonight and dominant again,
14:51I mean, you know, last game was all about power.
14:55Earlier on, it's whatever.
14:57They've got good things from Quinn.
14:59It's been a little bit about Koulik, too, so far.
15:00Koulik has looked pretty good.
15:01Quinn's looked pretty good.
15:03Osland is being treated by Lindy like their number one center so far.
15:07He looks good.
15:07Yeah.
15:08I mean, I don't know if Doan's going to make it in the lineup tonight.
15:11We'll see.
15:11He's got that lower body thing that's lingering, I suppose.
15:14Mm-hmm.
15:15He hasn't really been noticeable the way he has been in his Sabres career,
15:18so that'd be nice to get that going eventually.
15:20Mm-hmm.
15:21And then, like, you know, Helenius, let's see a little juice from that kid.
15:25It's been about the kids and how they're going to be the ones to do it.
15:27I'd like to see some from him tonight as the card-carrying leader of his fan club.
15:32Yeah.
15:33Because I need him to be, like, you know, a top 15 player in the league.
15:37Top 15 player in the league.
15:39Maybe not that big.
15:41I'd like a, you know, what about, like, a 20-goal rookie year?
15:44I mean, have we totally cooled off the, he's going to be contending for the Calder this year?
15:49There hasn't been much talk about it.
15:50It's only been three games.
15:51He was sixth in the Calder odds.
15:53Yes.
15:54And here we are so far, it's, you know.
15:56Yeah, I mean, he scored a goal, he gave one up.
15:59It could be him playing on the wing also, I guess.
16:02Yeah, right.
16:02He kind of did this, though, last year in the regular season.
16:05Playoffs were great, and it maybe erased everybody's memory from what the regular season was,
16:11but he had those great first couple games, and then I think it was, like, seven games
16:17after that where he didn't have a point, and then he got sent down to Rochester before
16:22he called it back up in the playoffs, and then he did it.
16:24So, you know, like, this kind of happened to him a little bit last year.
16:29I wouldn't want to rush or panic on him at all because he's only 20 years old.
16:34And if I can just get him, what do I need from him this year?
16:38Especially if Oslin and Kulik are going to be good.
16:40If those two are going to be night-to-night contributors, what do I really need from
16:45Helen Hughes?
16:45I'd love him to be Calder guy or top-line winger guy, but can I get away with him being
16:53a guy that, you know, what was Paterka at the beginning of his career?
16:57He'd get hot for a week, and then he'd disappear for two weeks, and then he'd get hot for another
17:00few games, and then he'd disappear.
17:02Like, isn't that kind of all I need from him?
17:06I don't need him being a night-to-night contributor.
17:08I need him being a guy that, like, once in a while, he's going to have a great night for
17:12me.
17:15But that bakes in, again, the context there of the other two kids are going to be more
17:20night-to-night contributors for me.
17:22Well, to that point, it'd be nice to see.
17:23It's time to see a great night, you know?
17:26Sure, right, because we haven't really had it so far.
17:27Right.
17:28803-0550 if you want to join us.
17:30Sal coming up at 7.
17:31We haven't talked to Sal this week.
17:32The Bills moving things off a day.
17:34They'll get back to practice today.
17:36Maybe we get an update on DJ Moore if he's practicing, if it looks like he's going to
17:40be out there.
17:41They're going to, you know, kind of power him down for a week or two to try and get
17:45him healthy.
17:45They've got two games on the West Coast.
17:46They'll stay out there, out West, L.A., then Vegas, then the bye week, then Baltimore.
17:53Feels like a big four weeks, you know?
17:55I mean, the bye week notwithstanding, but, like, Baltimore right after is a
17:57big one out of the bye week.
17:58I think it's the trade deadline right after those four games, too.
18:01All right.
18:01I think.
18:03Call the Eagles.
18:04Give me a good rumor.
18:05What do you want to trade for for the Eagles?
18:06I don't know.
18:07They're tearing down.
18:08What do they got?
18:09Let's go shopping.
18:10They're loading up for their borough trade, their Stafford golf trade next year, right?
18:15Because they have two firsts and two seconds now in 28.
18:18Okay.
18:19I did see Chris Long on his podcast kind of taking down Jalen Hurts.
18:23Like, come on, dude.
18:24Yeah.
18:24You've got to be better than this.
18:26And that's a former Eagle talking about Jalen Hurts that way?
18:29Does he feel like they're about to punt on me because they're kind of building up for
18:36something next?
18:37There's never, in my mind, been any doubt the Eagles would love to push a button and get
18:42out of that and do something else.
18:43I think they're already starting the gears on that.
18:47Bills and Rams.
18:48Talk about how you're feeling about that game.
18:50Big day today to find out about DJ Moore and other assorted injuries because they did leave
18:54that game against the Patriots with a couple of dings in the secondary.
18:58They brought in a defensive act for a workout.
19:00So anyway, we'll talk about it all with Sal coming up at the top of the hour because we
19:03have not chatted with him since Monday.
19:06In the meantime, your calls.
19:07We've got shots of audio brought to you by Outlet Liquor.
19:10Another thing to get to along the way, it's the Sabres game night.
19:12We can guess a Dallas-based hot dog and all that good stuff.
19:16Jeremy and Joe, give us a ring, 803-0550 here on WGR.