00:00And joining me now is someone who knows firsthand how important access to the White House is when
00:04your job is to cover the president. Frank Sesno is CNN's former Washington bureau chief. Before
00:10that, he was a White House correspondent. He's now a professor at George Washington University's
00:14School of Media and Public Affairs. Frank, it's good to have you back on the program.
00:19Let's talk about what we saw yesterday to begin with here. We saw Trump cut the ribbon and dedicate
00:24this new helipad at the White House. Viewers couldn't hear him on the White House feed.
00:29There was no pool camera video for news outlets to use. Has he underestimated how much he still needs
00:36the media and the networks? Yes, I think he has. I mean, he has his truth social and social media
00:44and a remarkable capacity to go out to people. But there is still an enormous presence that these
00:50television networks, which also have an Internet presence, have. The evening newscasts of the old
00:57traditional newscasts, news networks, have close to 12, 13, 14 million people a night
01:05watching. The morning shows that these networks put on are also millions of people. CNN and Fox News,
01:12which are part of the pool. And Fox News, a conservative-leading network, which is also
01:17going along with this. More, you know, millions over the course of a day, the cumulative rating,
01:22as we call it. So there are many millions of people that Donald Trump won't get to. And what
01:26we know about Donald Trump is he loves cameras and he loves microphones and he wants to be out there
01:32and in front of as many people as possible. So, yes, I think he's miscalculated.
01:36Are you surprised by the show of solidarity that we're seeing from so many news outlets? I mean,
01:41as you said, even Fox is standing with CNN and MS Now. No, I'm not surprised. I'm very pleased,
01:50but I'm not surprised. The networks have done this in the past over time with reporters from
01:56varying sides. When I was at the White House many, many years ago, there was an attempt
02:00at one point for the White House to be the sole camera and they would provide the video. It was
02:06very
02:06important video at the time. And all the networks said, nope, we have independent access. We're not
02:12going to take White House handouts when this is the building we're in and that we're going to cover.
02:17So I'm very gratified that there is this kind of solidarity. And the Washington Post and the New
02:22York Times and others, NPR, National Public Radio, also going in variations of this to show
02:28solidarity with it. It is a vital point to make. The White House, of all places, is a place where
02:35access should be open to all professional journalists who are there to cover the president
02:41as the presidency should be covered. Trump has targeted the news media from day one.
02:47And at the same time, he attended the White House correspondence dinner this year. So what do you
02:54think or why do you think he has all of a sudden decided that it's time to ban what he
02:59calls the fake
03:00news crews? I mean, why now? Well, first of all, let me just say that when he attended the White
03:06House Correspondents Association dinner, he was a rather blunt guest because he was very, very
03:14critical of the people he was there. I have been to many of those dinners, by the way, and this
03:18is
03:18something worth noting at this moment. Every president I have covered, and I've been here since
03:23Jimmy Carter, has said, I don't really always like the coverage I get, but I recognize the job you
03:29have to do in an open society and a democracy. As far as Trump and why now, we don't know.
03:35He hasn't
03:36given a good reason other than we have heard that he was shown the cumulative coverage of Politico,
03:44one of the banned news organizations, and saw it was highly negative and said, you know,
03:49I don't want you here anymore, along and then through CNN and MSNOW in for good measure. But
03:56again, this is the person who has sued the BBC for $10 billion, the Wall Street Journal,
04:01he tried for $10 billion, the New York Times, and others, because he does not like the coverage
04:08that doesn't reflect well on him, pure and simple. Trump says that fake news threatens national
04:16security. And you're the man I want to ask about that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but on the
04:21day
04:21after 9-11, you dealt with a White House request to limit reporting. What made that different from
04:30what Trump may or may not be claiming now in terms of national security?
04:36I don't know what he's claiming. I don't know what he means. And that's part of the problem. The other
04:41thing that's different then than now is the relationship between the press and the White House is
04:45so deteriorated because of all of this. That particular incident you were talking about was
04:50right after the 9-11 bombings. We were asked not to reveal the whereabouts of the president,
04:56vice president, and the cabinet assembled when they were all together. But Ari Fleischer, who was the
05:00press secretary at the time, notably started the conversation by saying, I recognize the
05:05constitutional right and responsibility you have as a free press. So I can't tell you to do this,
05:11but I'm asking. And that is what has really disappeared. I negotiated a lot as bureau chief
05:17with the Pentagon, with the White House, with others. If there are military operations underway,
05:22or we had a story that they knew about that they thought could threaten lives or ongoing operations,
05:28we would enter into a conversation about whether we would hold the story or we would go right with
05:33it. And sometimes it could be very testy, but it was a conversation. And that reflected the respect
05:38that I think that both sides had, adversarial though the relationship was. There is no
05:43explanation behind this, and there has been no conversation that I can determine as to what
05:48the national security threat is, other than, again, that Trump doesn't like the coverage he's been
05:53seeing. You ran CNN's Washington Bureau. Would you suspend the shared camera coverage in protest
06:01if that left the White House with more control over the pictures? If you were the boss today,
06:07what would you do? Well, I certainly would do what has been done now. And I would say we are
06:12not going
06:13to use pool video at all, because it's not going to, if it's not a pool for all, it's not
06:19a pool for
06:19any. That's the purpose of the pool. And by banning news organizations, one of the points of leverage
06:26that the White House news, that these White House news organizations have is to say that we're going to
06:31do this kind of thing. That it's a very important line in the sand, that the job that these news
06:38organizations do, and they are not perfect. There's lots to criticize. Fair enough. But that the job
06:45that they do is about covering the president and the presidency, that they hold power to account,
06:52that that means asking tough questions. And it also means that there will be times where the White House
06:58doesn't like the coverage, doesn't like the commentary that goes with it, whether it's on Fox
07:04on the right, or MSNOW on the left. But the White House in the past has understood that that's,
07:11as I said, goes with the territory. This is a different thing. So if I were in that position,
07:15yes, I would be drawing a line on the sand very clearly. Now we also have Trump TV. And I
07:23heard
07:23one commentator earlier today saying, well, this proves it. The United States now has state-run
07:31media through Trump TV. What do you say to that?
07:36You know, if he wants to do Trump TV, fine. I'm a little less concerned about that because
07:41every White House has put out its own press statements. And the Obama White House and the
07:47Biden White House, you know, put out their social media feeds, and that was Obama TV or Biden TV
07:53without TV. Nobody's going to take Trump TV as a, it's not, you know, it's not, to my knowledge
08:00anyway, funded by taxpayer dollars. And I don't know where it is or who watches it. What I'm much more
08:07concerned about is the idea that they can undermine the independent coverage of others and get away
08:13with that. Trump TV and Trump social for that matter, while they will still reach people,
08:19are one vehicle among many. And I think the most important thing is to keep eyes on the prize.
08:26There needs to be the full and proper access to the White House for coverage.
08:30You know, some MAGA supporters, Trump supporters could say, I don't trust CNN. Why should I care
08:38whether its reporters get into the White House? What's your answer to that?
08:44Next president is Democrat, hypothetically, and they kick Fox out, or Newsmax, or one of the
08:49conservative networks. How do they feel about that? That would be my answer. This is a precedent.
08:54This is about the premise and principle that all respectable, professional, and I use those
09:02adjectives purposely, news organizations that cover the White House should have access to the White House.
09:09One more hypothetical here. If you were running CNN tonight, would you use White House footage at all?
09:17I mean, how do you show the president without letting him decide what viewers see? I mean,
09:24we have a story to tell. We're a visual medium. How do you square this circle?
09:31I would simply say, look, we've got this spat going on with the White House, and we're going to deal
09:35with that. He's still the president of the United States. We're still going to cover him. CNN took
09:40the president at the United Nations yesterday, and his travels in New York for the UN General
09:47Assembly. They're going to cover him. What they're not going to do is a pool. What they're not going to
09:51do is go out of their way to elevate the... And what's interesting, I'm noticing on other networks
09:58is there's just less Trump video and less Trump audio. So you can say what the president did. You
10:06can describe what something looked like. But he started this, and these news organizations, I think,
10:12have a point to make. But they also have a very important responsibility. The president is a
10:18newsmaker. And it's very much like what's happened over at the Pentagon. The Pentagon basically has
10:24kicked out most of the professional journalists who covered the place because Pete Hegseth wanted
10:29them to sign a document about certain coverage restrictions that were just unacceptable to all
10:34of them, including Fox News. And so they're not in the building anymore. That hurts coverage,
10:39but they're still reporting on what's going on at the Pentagon and with the military and in Iran and
10:46beyond. Before we run out of time, I know a judge is scheduled to hear the challenge from CNN,
10:51MSNL, and Politico tomorrow, even if the networks win their access back. How do you stop the threat
10:57of another ban from changing the journalism? I mean, this could happen again and again.
11:04It can happen again and again. You're absolutely right. And it can take other forms.
11:08They can agree to freeze some of these journalists out of certain events if they want. Certainly never
11:14call on them in a press conference or a press briefing. I mean, there are things that they
11:18can do, and it's been done in the past, in the past, before all of this. If the press secretary
11:22or the president was angry at somebody, they'd call them out and kind of give them a hard time,
11:27or as I say, not call on them in a press briefing or in a press conference. This is petty
11:34stuff.
11:35I hope this will pass. But for now, it's a very dramatic and perilous standoff that's taking place.
11:44Frank Sesno, as always, Frank, good to have you on the program. We appreciate you
11:47sharing your insights and your experience and the wisdom that comes from that. Thank you.
11:53My pleasure. Thank you.
