00:00This is a pretty tough case, and you're accusing Meta of using technology to do harm.
00:06Does this have to do with the algorithm that is the basis of Facebook and Instagram, or is it more
00:12nuanced than that?
00:15Well, it has to do with the design of their products, both Facebook and Instagram.
00:19They designed their product to be dangerous.
00:20They knew that it was dangerous, and they lied to the public.
00:24And the design includes the algorithmic feed, it includes beeps and alerts, likes, infinite scroll, autoplay, ephemeral content like Instagram
00:34stories, sort of that constellation of different features that they designed created the harm.
00:40They did internal research where they knew it hurt the mental health of kids.
00:45It created anxiety, depression, body image issues, addictive tendencies, learning loss.
00:51And they doubled down and chose profit over the safety of children.
00:56And one of the things that I do as the California Attorney General is I protect vulnerable populations, including our
01:01kids.
01:01I'm a dad of three.
01:03Any parent, teacher, or guardian knows the detrimental impact of these products, and this is the tobacco moment for Meta.
01:11And this is time for them to be held accountable.
01:13So we have picked a jury, and we have opening statements and begin our trial on Tuesday.
01:18I will be there personally, and we look forward to making our case, bringing this case to trial, and holding
01:23Meta accountable.
01:24You know, this isn't the first case.
01:26It's not going to be probably the last case against Meta or social media at large.
01:31But it does seem to be the biggest case so far to date.
01:35Why is this one so important?
01:37And is it about restitution for those families and individuals who you would argue in the other states have been
01:44certainly harmed here?
01:46Or is it about really changing the way social media companies, Meta in particular, do business?
01:53It's both.
01:55It's about injunctive relief, including changing their conduct, ending the features that create the excessive, the addictive, the compulsive use
02:07by kids,
02:08the features that are designed to addict kids so that they maximize their use, the duration on the platform, the
02:16frequency on the platform.
02:18So it's certainly about changing these addictive, harmful features that Meta knew about and lied about.
02:27It's also about an appropriate amount of what we call penalties.
02:31It's not actually technically damages.
02:33Penalties, disgorgement, and restitution are the types of relief we can get.
02:38We are seeking significant amounts in this case.
02:41And this is a huge case.
02:42It's a multi-state case.
02:43It's what we call a bellwether case when 29 states have brought claims and four states have been chosen to
02:51bring their case to trial.
02:53And so California, Colorado, Kentucky, and New Jersey will be bringing our case on Tuesday.
02:59And across the country, there are north of 40 states, bipartisan, Republican, and Democratic states,
03:06who have brought cases against Meta in both state court and in federal court.
03:10So this is a big moment.
03:11This is a big case.
03:12We're seeking both changes in conduct and appropriate financial compensation.
03:18I was struck by your first answer, Mr. Attorney General, as you imply that this is not only wrongdoing, but
03:25motivated, premeditated.
03:28This was on purpose.
03:30Why would Facebook, why would Mark Zuckerberg aim to harm his clients, his customers?
03:38Well, you could ask the same thing of the tobacco industry.
03:41You could ask the same thing of the opioid industry and the Sackler family.
03:45Do you believe that he is on the same level?
03:48Oh, yeah.
03:49This is the same level stuff.
03:51Knowing about the harms.
03:53Having internal discussions and memos, including, you know, you mentioned Mr. Zuckerberg.
03:58So let me tell you about Mr. Zuckerberg.
04:00There was a feature called, it was a filter, a plastic surgery filter, which changes your images using a plastic
04:10surgery type of technology that shows what you look like after plastic surgery.
04:15And it was known internally that this would harm the mental health of kids, including especially young girls.
04:21And his team warned him about it.
04:24They raised the red flag.
04:25He overruled them and said, do it anyway.
04:28He chose profit over the safety of children.
04:31So it's the same thing with tobacco.
04:34They knew about the harms and they visited that on the American public anyway.
04:38It's the same with opioids.
04:39They knew the addictive, harmful impacts.
04:41They visited it on the American public anyway.
04:44And this is not just the American public.
04:46This is kids, our kids, our children, the next generation.
04:51As parents and teachers, we have to be passionate about this.
04:55And I am and so are the other attorneys general.
04:57So, yeah, this is about knowing the harm, doing it anyway, doubling down on it and lying about it to
05:03the public.
05:03It is very tobacco-like in that way.
05:06Is Meta, though, in a league all its own, any different than some of the other social media platforms that
05:14are out there?
05:14I'm thinking TikTok, Snap, or YouTube.
05:16I'm thinking of some reporting, Mr. Attorney General, that our own Olivia Carville has done where they kept a safety
05:24feature from millions and one ultimately died by suicide.
05:29So I'm just wondering, are they the worst offender in your view or are the other ones or you guys
05:36are coming at them next?
05:38They're a major offender, but they're not the only offender.
05:41And we've already brought a lawsuit against TikTok.
05:43That's pending now.
05:44Right.
05:45And similarly, states across the country, over 40 states, bipartisan, have brought their own lawsuits against TikTok.
05:52We are also very interested in Snap.
05:54We're very interested in YouTube.
05:55We're not just picking out one particular player.
05:58It's an industry that has followed a lot of the same MO, where they know about the harms.
06:06Those harms make them money, so they double down on those harms on our children.
06:10They do it anyway, and they lie to the public.
06:11So it's not only Meta, but Meta is the one that's in file starting Tuesday, so we're focused on them.
06:16It's also an industry that brings a lot of money to the state of California, whether it's Alphabet, whether it's
06:22Meta platforms.
06:23You know it well.
06:24They employ a lot.
06:25They do a lot.
06:25They probably pay a lot of taxes as well to your state.
06:29What is the balance?
06:30It's always, you know, societal impact versus economic impacts.
06:35How do you balance that?
06:36How do you think about that and reconcile those two?
06:39Yeah, it's pretty straightforward and simple.
06:41They have to follow the law, period, full stop.
06:43Meta can be wildly successful and follow the law, and I don't just suggest that.
06:49I insist that they have to follow the law.
06:51They cannot hurt our kids, and they have broken the law, whether it be federal law and taking advantage of
06:58the privacy of children under 13
06:59or violating the false advertising law or the unfair competition law in our state by providing dangerous features, designing dangerous
07:08features, and lying to the public.
07:09So we want businesses to found here in California, to grow in California, to create good jobs, to contribute to
07:16us being the fourth largest economy in the world, and we want them to follow the law.
07:21And we know that they can, and we know that they will when we enforce, and we insist that they
07:26must.
07:27So the balance is you need to be a business that follows the law, and Meta has broken the law
07:32here, so we're taking them to court.
07:33If Meta is big tobacco, if Meta is the Sackler family, as you've asserted, Attorney General, do you want to
07:40put Meta out of business?
07:42I do not. It's an analogy to the same conduct, the same type of knowing conduct that harms the public,
07:50doing it anyway, doubling down on it, and lying.
07:53That's the MO. That's what it's like tobacco. That is similar to the Sackler family and to Purdue Pharma.
07:59They can stop and end these addictive features, these dangerous features for children, and still have a product that is
08:11not dangerous to kids and can be very successful.
08:14So no, we are not interested in putting them out of business.
08:16We are interested in ending the harmful, unlawful features that hurt kids that are addictive, that are excessive, and create
08:25compulsive behavior.
08:26Will Mark Zuckerberg be called to testify?
08:30We'll see. Right now, we think we have a really strong case.
08:34You know, without him, it might be important to have him part of the case.
08:39I did mention that important component about-
08:41Yeah, why wouldn't you want him there?
08:44We always talk about when it's a publicly held company, the CEO is at the top and responsible for whatever
08:49happens at a company, ultimately.
08:51Why wouldn't you?
08:54Well, we might. I mean, I'm not saying we will or we won't.
08:57Well, it's a big company.
08:59We were able to make our case about the dangerousness of the features, the lying.
09:03We have a ton of documents.
09:05We have a lot of other evidence in the case.
09:08We have taken his deposition in another case, so we're not afraid to, as necessary, depose the person at the
09:15top.
09:15It is his company, as you mentioned, the founder.
09:19And so we may.
09:21Wouldn't be the big tobacco moment without all those CEOs sitting there together, right?
09:28Would you ask Mark Zuckerberg to apologize to these families as part of this?
09:36You know, we're going to bring our case.
09:37And I do think it's appropriate for him to apologize to all the families that have been harmed, the families
09:45of the children, the children themselves.
09:47I think that what speaks of a very strong apology is to change the conduct, to end the features that
09:56knowing that our kids.
09:57That's the primary thing that we're looking for in this case.
10:01Of course, the financial components are important, too.
10:04But we want to protect our kids.
10:06We want them to be safe going forward.
10:08Any parent, teacher or guardian knows that.
10:10And that's what we're focused on.
10:11So action is more important than words.
10:13But the words of an apology, if sincere and in good faith, that would be strong and important, too.
10:17And that's what we're looking for.
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