- 3 weeks ago
The Astros stumbled out of the gate post All-Star break with some rough losses at home to the Baltimore Orioles. Zach Gelb and B. Scott discuss this confusing state the Astros are in right now.
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00:00It's like, okay, even if the Astros determine that they need to sell B. Scott,
00:04well, are Peña and Walker going to be healthy enough to get them in position to sell?
00:08Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where it feels like so many different wasted opportunities
00:15for the Astros in this season, right?
00:17You look at the mess of the American League that you're kind of alluding to,
00:20but instead of being able to take advantage of the American League being the mess that it is,
00:25the Astros are contributing to the mess.
00:28They are a part of said mess, and so it's really disappointing,
00:32especially when you consider that it seemed like they're almost toying with the fan base a little bit,
00:37yo-yoing with the fan base, Zach, honestly, because they start off atrocious,
00:41make you want to count them out and think that they don't even have a chance.
00:44And then since May 21st, if you look at it, let's say for the last three games that they've lost,
00:50right?
00:50If you go from May 21st to just the last couple of days,
00:54they were one of the better teams in the American League, right?
00:57They had won just a couple of weeks on the back for winning like six of their last seven series
01:03and kind of counting it like that.
01:05And now the update to that two weeks later is that they've lost their last three series.
01:10If you go back to the Nationals and the Rangers before the All-Star break,
01:14and then, of course, losing these first two games post-All-Star break against the Baltimore Orioles,
01:18and we'll see what happens today, whether they get swept.
01:21But either way, they lose the series after losing the first two games.
01:24And so the vibes have kind of just gone completely in the opposite direction
01:28in terms of what they were looking like a couple of weeks ago
01:31and the trajectory that it looked like that they were on.
01:33I can say that I'm pretty sure that knowing Jim Crane and knowing how they operate,
01:38they're still probably going to be buyers, even if they're delusional buyers.
01:42But it does not give you a whole lot of optimism based off of how they're playing right now.
01:46Yeah, there is nothing tangible that I could hold my hands on right now with this baseball team
01:52and make me think that they're actually going to be in the postseason come the end of the year.
01:57Now, like, the only way that we could actually say that this team is going to be in the postseason
02:01is just because the state of the AL is not good.
02:03So if they could find a way to be average here in the second half of the season,
02:07average will get you into the postseason.
02:09You just got to be hovering around 500.
02:11But yesterday with Zach DiCenzo at the end of the game, a back-and-forth game, right?
02:16Like all the craziness, the small ball that was being played, wild bounces that did occur,
02:21some fortuitous bounces that went in the direction of the Astros,
02:24some went in the direction of the Orioles.
02:26When that ball gets away from the catcher and it's the last out of the game,
02:30you got to run your ass.
02:31You got to move your fanny over to first base.
02:34And the fact that he just slowly walked back to the dugout,
02:39it's what makes them so unlikable because it's one thing to be bad,
02:42it's one thing to be struggling,
02:44but when you're not fighting it out to literally the final out
02:48and you're not grinding and you're not showing some moxie and some toughness,
02:52that makes them an unlikable team.
02:53And it makes a fan say, hey, where's this team going?
02:56Maybe they should just sell and start thinking about the future.
02:58Well, it's also odd for a fan because it's actually somewhat uncharacteristic
03:03of what they've actually been throughout the season.
03:05This is a new thing, especially the last few games.
03:08What's special about the way they've lost these last few games,
03:11they've either tied or led in the eighth inning of the last three games
03:15that they lost, and they still found a way to lose them
03:18where they at least did not find a way to win them.
03:20And before that, the thing that you could hang your hat on with the Astros
03:25is that they would get off the mat, is that they would fight,
03:28kind of similar how I was talking about Messi earlier.
03:30Like, you can rely or could rely on the Astros to at least be in it
03:35toward the end of the game.
03:36And this has been the last few games the exact opposite.
03:40I mean, the big story here is that they're running out of time, Zach.
03:44Like, they're running out of time.
03:46We can only butt for so long as either a fan base or as a media
03:50or as just a general public do the whole one of 162.
03:55It's still early.
03:57They've still got time.
03:59Well, one of 162 feels a lot heavier the further you get into it.
04:03Once you get post-All-Star break, once you start approaching the trade deadline
04:07and you're trying to figure out exactly what you are,
04:09and the reality is for the Astros, whether you want to be optimistic or not,
04:13they are running out of time for optimism.
04:16They are running out of time to just kind of play mid-base all the way
04:20that they have over the past couple of months.
04:22They've got to go on a run, and it doesn't seem like they've got enough things
04:26working for them in concert.
04:28It's like they'll do one thing well at a time,
04:30but they won't do enough things well at once to actually be a good baseball team,
04:35and that's been their issue this year.
04:37It's the reason why they're below 500.
04:38And the big conundrum is this is a year, because of the state of the AL,
04:44there's not going to be a lot of buyers.
04:46I mean, there's not going to be a lot of sellers.
04:48So if you are a buyer, you could get more than what you would get in, let's say,
04:54previous years, because there is more of a demand for people to buy,
04:59but the supply is not high because there's not a lot of teams selling.
05:03And I look at this organization.
05:04You've got a manager on the final year of his contract in Joe Espada.
05:07You've got a general manager in Dana Brown on the final year of his contract as well.
05:12I don't know about you, B, Scott,
05:13but if I knew I was on the verge of getting fired or if I didn't have my contract solidified
05:20for future years,
05:22I'm not trying to help this team out in future years and do what's in the best decision for the
05:26franchise a year or two or three years now.
05:30I'm trying to save my job right now.
05:33So in a world where I look at this from afar and I say,
05:36hey, I haven't seen anything that makes me believe that they should be buyers.
05:40I think they actually will be buyers because you've got a desperate general manager
05:45and you've got a desperate manager that are trying to keep their jobs.
05:49Yeah, well, let's be honest about this, Zach.
05:50I don't know if it's just them trying to keep their jobs as much as it is them auditioning for
05:55their next one, right?
05:56Because I don't honestly know where Dana Brown or Joe Espada is truly auditioning for his job.
06:07That there's something that this team, the way we're talking about them right now,
06:10that there's something that they can realistically do to save their jobs right now.
06:16I mean, think about it.
06:17With the Astros, we've seen far more successful managers either be forced out or outright fired from this organization
06:23just in the last six or seven years or so.
06:26A.J. Hinch won a World Series.
06:27Of course, we understand what happened there.
06:29Yeah, the scandal.
06:30But also, after the 22 World Series, there was a similar situation.
06:34Lame duck contract for James Click, the general manager at the time.
06:37They win the freaking World Series.
06:41And still not brought back.
06:42And this guy is not brought back.
06:43What do you think these guys' future is going to look like after back-to-back seasons of not going
06:50to the postseason
06:51if they don't make it this year?
06:52And 2024, if we want to be honest about it, I mean, they go.
06:56They barely make it.
06:57They back their way into it, and then they get swept at home by the Tigers.
07:00You can almost not even count that.
07:01So that's what this regime has been.
07:04It's been an utter failure when you compare it to the other ones before that.
07:07I think Jim Crane also has a role in that as well.
07:11Like, I think there's some accountability to be held at the owner's feet as well.
07:15But as far as him, like, writing the checks and deciding who works here,
07:19I think these guys are not just trying to necessarily save their jobs,
07:22but they're trying to audition for the next one and put their best foot forward for the next interview that
07:27they have.
07:28Yeah, and maybe you could create it if you're like a Dana Brown or a Joe Espada.
07:32And Espada is a popular name in baseball.
07:35And we've been hearing a lot about him even before he got the manager,
07:41him getting a manager job somewhere else.
07:43But you look at that, they could probably blame a lot of this on Jim Crane.
07:46And that's why I think he's really going to ultimately decide if they do buy or sell from now into
07:52the deadline.
07:53But if I was Brown and if I was Espada, I'm not sitting there trying to give up
07:58because even though I think it's trending that both aren't back next year
08:01and both will be gone with this franchise,
08:04it's like I'm going to go down swinging instead of just basically saying,
08:08OK, I'll go do what's in the best interest for the franchise right now and trade Jeremy Pena and trade
08:13Christian Walker.
08:14And I think those decisions are going to be interesting.
08:17Like if Jim Crane goes to them and says, hey, guys, we need to sell.
08:20We're not really in this.
08:21Even if we get into the postseason, I don't see this being successful.
08:25Be at an early departure from the postseason, even if they get in like they got to figure out right
08:30now,
08:31they're going to get a long term deal done with Jeremy Pena.
08:34You know, Walker's an older player, got a little, you know, some time left on that contract.
08:39But like I said, to open up the show, there's going to be a lot of buyers because the AL
08:43stinks
08:43and the team selling are going to be low, like the Rockies will sell in the NL.
08:48The Mets will sell in the NL.
08:50But outside of that, there's not going to be a lot of sellers.
08:52And Pena, that's going to be a big name.
08:54Like at Fanatics Fest in New York City, Alex Rodriguez is doing an interview with WFN.
08:59He's like, hey, the New York Yankees got to go trade for Jeremy Pena,
09:03which I know will make a lot of people barf into a bag when you hear the Yankees and the
09:07Astros making a trade.
09:09The Boston Red Sox could be looking for a shortstop as well.
09:12And I know the Red Sox and Astros aren't all warm and fuzzy either.
09:15There could be a big bidding war for Jeremy Pena.
09:18And if you don't feel like you're going to give him a lot of attention and keep him here with
09:21this franchise,
09:22then you've got to do what's in the best interest of this team.
09:24And that's to give up on a player who's had a lot of success here.
09:27Yeah, I know the frustrating part for a lot of Astros fans has to be that the Astros honestly don't
09:33seem to have much of an appetite
09:35for paying Jeremy Pena or for trading Jeremy Pena.
09:40Like they want to, I don't know if they want to, but they definitely are living in between these two
09:45worlds,
09:45in between these two realities where you have to pay your homegrown talent and actually go all in on your
09:51homegrown talent
09:52or make that tough decision to let them go, kind of similar to what they just did with Kyle Tucker
09:57the year before.
09:59And so, I mean, that's like the elephant in the room, right?
10:02They're not trading Jordan Alvarez, the franchise, like the franchise guy.
10:05But the next, like the next closest thing, the World Series MVP, the young gold glove level shortstop,
10:13like that's the one, that's the guy that's going to get them the most back.
10:16And that's not even to get into a conversation about what the baseball nerds think about the Astros' farm system
10:24and what their prospects actually look like.
10:27Like they could stand a reset, but they don't seem to really have the appetite to do that.
10:32This is their leadoff hitter.
10:34It's a top-heavy lineup.
10:36And again, we're talking about an American League that can be had.
10:40When you've only got about four to five guys in your lineup that you actually believe in
10:44and you're looking around the American League and feel like you could actually make a run
10:47because nobody is impressive, and I don't think we can stress that point enough,
10:52how unimpressive the American League as a whole, not just the Astros,
10:55but the American League as a whole is.
10:57The reason why a lot of people are a bit illusional and trick themselves into thinking
11:02that they're really in this thing, you could see the Astros being that exact team
11:06where they stand pat and they don't trade Jeremy Pena because they feel like they need him to make a
11:12run,
11:12and I can understand that.
11:14But to your point, what's best for the franchise, they've got to start going down that road.
11:18They've got to start going down that road because they're not going to pay this guy,
11:21and they don't really have clear stars in their farm system to replace him.
11:26Well, that's the thing.
11:28If they are not going to pay him, they need to get rid of him.
11:32That's the bottom line.
11:34It's almost like, and I could say this now because I've lost a lot of weight through the years,
11:37but when I first tried to lose weight and I was like a fat lard,
11:41and I'd be like, oh, I want to lose weight, and then I would go eat McDonald's.
11:45Well, you're not really trying to lose weight then.
11:47It's like the Astros, oh, they want to be competitive again.
11:50They don't have a good farm system.
11:51Oh, we have Jeremy Pena who could get us back a lot of prospects,
11:55but we don't really want to pay him.
11:56So what, you're just going to let this contract run out?
11:58Like that doesn't make a lot of sense.
12:00Yeah, not at all.
12:01Not at all.
12:02And especially, like, and again, it really comes down to the oddity of this year
12:07and the fact that they're able to dilute themselves or make themselves delusional
12:11into thinking that maybe they're better than what they are
12:14or that their chances are better than what they are.
12:17But it goes to the point of who is thinking about the long-term health of the franchise?
12:21Is that the lame duck general manager and manager who might not be here several months from now?
12:26Nope.
12:27Where is the owner's mind at?
12:28Like those are the relevant questions that Astros fans need to be asking.
12:32And right now, I think that this is a franchise without direction,
12:35and it's not a surprise that you're in this spot when you have a GM manager
12:41that are on the final years of their contract and they're in a lame duck spot.
12:46And that's the thing.
12:46Like, Rafael Devers is going to be made available with the Giants.
12:49I would rather have Jeremy Pena than Rafael Devers.
12:52So I think Pena is a name that's going to get a robust return,
12:56but the question just becomes, are the Astros going to be willing to trade him?
12:59And right now, I would say it's probably more so a no than a yes,
13:02and that's just in line with the confusion that's with this franchise.
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