00:00Making it easier to push Palestinians off their land, accelerating the annexation of the West Bank
00:05and taking ever more control of the region's water supplies and religious sites.
00:09Israel's security cabinet's new measures are causing alarm.
00:13While the war in Gaza has raged on, Israel already fast-tracked settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank,
00:18approving more than 50 settlements there last year alone.
00:21The latest plan will increase Israel's control in the region and take it from the Palestinian Authority.
00:26It's a clear plan with the Israeli finance minister saying he wants to stamp out the idea of a Palestinian
00:32state.
00:32Well, here is how the United Nations has reacted.
00:36The Secretary-General is gravely concerned by the reported decision of the Israeli Security Cabinet
00:42to authorise a series of administrative and enforcement measures in Area A and Area B of the occupied West Bank.
00:50The Secretary-General warns that the current trajectory on the ground, including this decision,
00:55is eroding the prospects for a two-state solution.
00:59He reiterates that all Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem,
01:05and their associated regime and infrastructure, have no legal validity
01:10and are in flagrant violation of international law, including relevant United Nations resolutions.
01:16Well, to take a closer look at how different this is from what we've seen from Israel in the past
01:21and to look at the legality of it all, we're joined now by social and cultural historian
01:24of modern Palestine, Israel, Yair Wallach.
01:26Thanks so much for your time and joining us on France 24.
01:29Can I start simply by asking you that?
01:31I mean, how big a change is this?
01:33I mean, we've seen the settlements being built for years and years already.
01:39So, it's a significant step in the sense that, according to the Oslo Accords from the 90s,
01:47Palestinians had some powers over something like 40% of the West Bank,
01:53and this was supposed to be an interim situation towards some kind of Palestinian independence.
01:58We got stuck in that stage.
02:00Now, the cabinet is taking over significant powers, even within those 40% of the West Bank,
02:08opening it to house demolitions and to Israeli purchasing of land within those areas.
02:15So, do you see this, if you like, as almost an official end then to those Oslo Accords of the
02:201990s
02:21and an end to this idea of a two-state solution?
02:26It's gearing towards that horizon very clearly.
02:29I mean, ever since the Israeli government took place and was established in 2022,
02:36they said very clearly that their aim in the guidelines say a complete takeover of the entire land
02:43between the river and the sea, very explicitly.
02:46Now, what they've done since is a series of steps of de facto annexation of the West Bank,
02:53and that's the most significant of these.
02:56And we should add this to the escalation of settler violence,
02:59which is pushing out communities all across the West Bank.
03:04Basically, small communities are fleeing from their land in fear of settler violence,
03:12as you can see in the back.
03:15So, where does this leave Palestinians and Palestine?
03:20I think Palestinians understand that there's an attempt here by the radical right,
03:26which is a radical right government in Israel, to destabilize the West Bank and to lead to some kind of
03:32an uprising.
03:33They're being pushed on every aspect, economically, in terms of civic powers, in terms of settler violence.
03:42And what the right in Israel is hoping for some kind of Palestinian uprising that would, in turn,
03:49allow it to take measures like we've seen in Gaza, in the West Bank.
03:54That's their plan.
03:55They're hoping for mass demolition.
03:57They're hoping to push people out within the West Bank, maybe out of the West Bank.
04:02Palestinians have been relatively resisting that, quietly, not taking violent means.
04:11But this could lead to some kind of explosion, which would be very dangerous.
04:16It sounds like a total push to annihilate Palestinians completely.
04:20Like, as you were saying, we've seen such violence already for years and years.
04:24And yet, the international reaction, Israel seems to be allowed to plough on with impunity,
04:29because already the settlements that we've seen since 1967 are illegal when it comes to international law.
04:38Yes, we usually have a statement of concern and condemnation and not much more than that.
04:45And even in this case, I think the U.S. made it clear in October that they won't allow the
04:53annexation of the West Bank.
04:55I'm not sure what it means in reality, because, as I've said, this is accelerating on the ground as we
05:05speak for the last few months
05:06and constant pressure on various areas across the West Bank.
05:12So, it seems like the international community is basically waiting for this to blow up before it does anything.
05:19Now, Israel seized control of the West Bank in 1967.
05:22Can you tell us a bit more about that, what it was like before and how it has been changing
05:27since?
05:29So, up in 1967, between 1948 and 1967, it was ruled by Jordan as part of the Kingdom of Jordan.
05:38Israel occupied the West Bank in Gaza in 1967 and then held it under military occupation.
05:45And starting with small steps of settlements in the 70s, accelerating rapidly in the 80s.
05:57And then the Oslo Accords were supposed to reverse that and lead to some kind of Palestinian independence.
06:05And Palestinians believed that they would get statehood.
06:09We got stuck, as I said, in an interim stage for the last 30 years.
06:15But what this government is doing is not just to basically create a de facto permanent apartheid situation,
06:25which in some ways exists already in the territories, but to reverse it and to destabilize it
06:32in the view of a complete takeover, much further annexation, much further settlements.
06:39And their hope is what happened in Gaza would happen in the West Bank.
06:44I mean, they saw the 7th of October attack by Hamas as the perfect excuse for them
06:55to take much more extreme measures in Gaza.
06:59And they're hoping for a similar scenario in the West Bank.
07:02Are there any voices in Israel, do you think, against what the government and the authorities in Israel are doing
07:09to the Palestinian people?
07:12There are some voices.
07:16Certainly there are Israelis that actually volunteer in the West Bank to protect some Palestinian communities.
07:22But this is a small minority.
07:27Most of the society is, I would say, uninterested in this question,
07:33even if it's not joining actively with the settlers in these efforts.
07:39So at the moment we see a little real opposition.
07:44And I should say that the government is pushing on all fronts also within Israel
07:49in terms of constitutional reforms to give it much more powers vis-à-vis the courts and the Knesset.
07:57So this is seen as just one of many, many issues within Israel.
08:01And finally, just given what we've seen in the past and looking at it historically,
08:05do you expect the international community to change in their reaction?
08:09I mean, we've seen, as we were saying, virtually no reaction to the horrific things we've seen in Gaza.
08:18I have very little hopes in this regard.
08:21I mean, I think the question is what the U.S. would do.
08:26I think Israel doesn't expect any meaningful sanctions from any other factor we've seen.
08:33that the only thing that got the EU to actually consider sanctions was the Israeli attack on Qatar.
08:41That's the moment where the EU realized that the current government is a destabilizing element within the Middle East.
08:49But then they stepped back once a ceasefire was announced.
08:54And whether the U.S. would do anything, it's a question I think that would remain to be seen.
09:04And I don't expect much from them in the immediate future.
09:09And given your knowledge of the historical context,
09:13can you give us your opinion on why the international community isn't stepping in?
09:19I think at the moment the deference to the U.S. and the Trump administration is the main consideration,
09:29given that there are so many reasons and areas in which the EU or the UK or other powers can
09:39get into trouble with Trump.
09:41They don't see this as a priority for them.
09:47And that's, you know, in the current context.
09:50More generally, historically, Israel was seen as an ally,
09:54was seen as a democratic partner in the Middle East.
10:01And those Western powers are very slow to realize the gap between this rhetoric and the reality on the ground,
10:09which, especially with the current government,
10:14is really very remote from the description of Israel as a liberal Western ally in the Middle East.
10:22It is a destabilizing government that is creating considerable risk within the region
10:30and is escalating rapidly the situation both in Gaza and in the West Bank.
10:36Yeah, well, look, we'll have to leave you there.
10:37Thank you so much for bringing your insight into the situation there.
10:41Very much appreciated.
