00:00joining me today at asianet news is ambassador venu rajamoli uh he was the ambassador to
00:19netherlands from 2017 to 2020 and he all he also served in the missions uh in hong kong beijing
00:27uh geneva washington dc and he was also the council general of india in dubai
00:33thank you so much ambassador for speaking with asianet uh i want to begin by speaking about
00:39pm modi's visit to china uh you know in last october 2024 we saw that india and china both
00:46the countries disengaged from the friction points but when it comes to military posturing and uh
00:52de-induction it has still not been done uh so uh you know given this particular scenario do you
00:58think that india china ties uh we can see it as a reset when pm modi meets xi jinping or is it
01:06simply going to be a simple multilateral followed by the bilateral meeting where only we'll see
01:12an exchange of information and not much can be read into it you know let me start by saying
01:20that a country can change its friends but it cannot change its neighbors whether we like china or we
01:27hate china whether whatever it does angers us or pleases us we have to deal with china we have to
01:35manage our china relationship therefore any meeting between an indian prime minister and the chinese
01:42president is extremely important and whatever positive results in breaks is good for the overall
01:50relationship india's relations with china have been complex and difficult we all know about the
01:58unresolved border question in 2020 the clashes in galwan led to the worst face of india china relations
02:09since the 1962 war after 1988 when prime minister rajiv gandhi visited china our relationship had shown
02:19a steady process of improvement and was getting better and better even though we had differences over
02:26many issues but india's attempt as prime minister modi has said previously was to try and see that
02:34differences of opinion don't turn into disputes and conflict tensions hostilities on the border
02:42so this meeting which comes in follow-up to foreign minister wangi's visit to india and to recent
02:52efforts made by both sides to slowly bring the relationship back to the level of normalcy that
02:59prevailed previous prior to galwan is important for the slow steps it will take in pushing the
03:07relationship back to a level of normalcy and as part of that process once again opening up the two
03:15countries to free movement of people free movement of trade and investment there are many chinese companies
03:23who are keen to invest in india and we have been trying to restrain their investments and to
03:30whatever coordination is possible between india and china in the international sphere concern considering
03:37what is happening in the world there will also be an indication of support for the process initiated
03:45by foreign minister wangi and the indian government the national security advisor as well as the foreign
03:51minister during his visit to india so i would see this as an important step forward in the path of
04:00bringing back the relationship to normalization and in addressing some of the fundamental questions
04:06that are important in our relationship that have been problematic in our relationship and also to
04:13look at the world to look at the future and to see what are the areas where we can cooperate
04:18and we can work with each other i want to talk about the u.s policy of hyphenation recently in
04:27operation sindoor we saw that u.s is treating linking india and pakistan and aggressively pushing this
04:34hyphenation policy and india is definitely condemning it but when it comes to china in operation sindoor
04:40we saw that chinese fighter jets were used by pakistan against india what is the military understanding
04:47between india and china under this particular situation well i think we should understand what
04:55china's policy towards south asia is we should try and see how we can influence that policy to change
05:05which china so far has been very clear in accepting that india is the predominant country within the
05:15south asian region that india is a very important partner internationally and in terms of long-term
05:23economic benefit india is more important than anyone else however it has a long-standing relationship
05:31with pakistan it is not just a question of fighter jets or missiles but in the past china is the
05:38country which transferred nuclear technology to pakistan through north korea and even during the
05:46recent hostilities between india and pakistan china is supposed to have provided real-time intelligence
05:55from its satellites to pakistan which enabled pakistan to try and mount a defense against
06:03the indian attacks so the chinese position is that it is against terrorism and to the extent
06:10what happened in palgam was wrong it will condemn it but it will not accept india going in and attacking
06:19pakistan or trying to undermine pakistan it has repeatedly reiterated that it stands by the
06:26sovereignty of pakistan so we should be realistic enough to understand that china is not going to
06:32abandon pakistan but yet china considers the india relationship very important and is willing to
06:40cooperate in building it and in strengthening it similarly with other countries in south asia china
06:46has important relationships considering china's political economic and military cloud those
06:52relationships will grow china does not see that as being against india and will not permit india to
07:01veto those relationships yet china does not see any of those relationships growing to be a more
07:08important that of their india relationship so india has to play its diplomacy intelligently we have to
07:16wield our diplomatic tools smartly to try and strengthen relations with china so that they come more and
07:24more to our point of view of thinking if you take pakistan for example we have to continuously give the
07:32message to china that terrorism coming out of pakistan is not in the interest of china too it is not just
07:39something which doesn't benefit india but it is not in the interest of china and china must put pressure on
07:45pakistan to eliminate terrorist camps to arrest terrorists and to hand over those responsible
07:51for terrorist incidents in india to us for justice uh ambassador said that china is not going to abandon
07:58pakistan but when it comes to multilateral forums like seo uh these organizations were built on the core
08:06objective to combat terrorism uh do you think that china is doing its part all the members of the seo do you
08:13think that they are emphasizing enough of the fact that pakistan is actually breeding terrorism on its
08:19soil it is certainly not doing enough and seo is a very weak organization it was an organization created
08:28for the purposes of fighting against terrorism against extremism against militancy etc it was a forum which
08:38began with russia china and other countries seeing terrorism as a major threat other countries meaning
08:45mainly central asian countries both to their domestic stability as well as within the region however
08:54with the joining of pakistan in seo and because of the principle that all decisions are taken by consensus
09:02pakistan effectively gets a veto over anything that seo decides or says its joint statements for example
09:09therefore it's highly unlikely that anything uh very important or very productive will come out of the seo
09:16meeting in my view seo exists so india goes and attends the seo meetings it tries to salvage whatever
09:24benefit it can out of that relationship otherwise this visit of prime minister modi to china is much more
09:31important for his bilateral conversations with president she for the meeting he will have with president
09:37putin and perhaps for the non-meeting he has with the pakistan prime minister i do not expect a meeting
09:44to take place if at all a handshake takes place that itself will be big news so the world will watch the
09:52optics but considering the state of india pakistan relationships a relationship currently a recovery
10:00going back to normalcies on the front with pakistan is still far away therefore our improving relations
10:07with china becomes even more important ambassador yesterday we saw a report which said that trump
10:12is very unlikely to attend quad summit in india do you think that us can withdraw from quad and how
10:19substantial is the grouping right now no i think you're over interpreting the developments as of now we
10:25only have a news report which says that trump may not attend the summit so we do not know what will
10:33happen with the summit whether the summit will be postponed whether the other leaders will decide to go
10:38ahead without trump whether uh secretary of state mark rubio will attend it there is no signs of the quad
10:47dropping or collapsing uh or immediately nor has the u.s given any such indication the quad has a lot of
10:56merit uh on its own it has already done a great deal of work it makes sense for countries like india
11:04australia japan and the u.s to come together and work in the indo-pacific region and president trump
11:14even if he is unhappy with india or he is unhappy with the quad his term is only four years we should
11:21not equate trump with the u.s india u.s relations has a very strong foundation it is a mutually beneficial
11:29relationship for the last 20 25 years it has been steadily growing under different presidents in the
11:36u.s and different governments in india i do not see uh one individual presidency or even uh the current
11:45mood of president trump as completely destroying that relationship or setting it back and president
11:51trump himself is known for being unpredictable and flip-flopping on his policy positions uh india is
11:59engaged in talks with the us and for all you know president trump may change his views in the future
12:06so if you're saying that trump is not trying to pivot away from asia pacific then in one of your
12:12articles you wrote about india u.s china triangle where you talk about how one each country in this
12:18triangle should be able to you know look after their own economic interest and also uh you know deal
12:26with the things issue by issue basis do you think that this is possible given the fact that trump is in
12:31white house right no that monograph which i wrote essentially talked about a soft balance of power
12:39i said that if you look at the india china u.s triangle each country will try to maximize
12:47the benefits it can get from one other country without reducing or compromising on the benefits it
12:54can get from the third country so on some specific issues we may be closer to china on other specific
13:00issues we may be closer to the us but this is a tango that we will play and we will not have permanent
13:07hostility or permanent friendship with either one country we will look at where our benefits are
13:12and then we will proceed accordingly so even today we must note and remember that for china if you were to
13:21ask china what is the most important relationship that it has in the world it will say the united
13:26states if you were to ask russia what is the most important relationship it has in the world it will
13:32say the united states so similarly for india too just because of president trump's current views
13:40we should not dismiss the united states or abandon our efforts to strengthen relations with the us
13:48us we must work around the problems that we have been faced with and try and find reasonable solutions
13:56that meet the interests of both india and the us and while we continue to improve relations with china
14:04and maintain and strengthen the strong relationship that with russia that we already have we must keep in
14:11mind that none of them can be a one window solution for india's needs of the future we need all these
14:19three countries and we must continue to work with all three of them
Comments