During a Senate hearing on the circumstances surrounding Jeffrey Epstein’s 2019 death in federal custody, Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana sparked major attention with a blunt remark comparing Epstein’s death to things that “don’t hang themselves.” The hearing, held on November 19, examined why Epstein—who officials reported died by suicide—was left unsupervised for nearly eight hours in a Manhattan jail. U.S. prosecutors continue to investigate oversight failures and procedural lapses at the facility as questions about Epstein’s treatment persist.#EpsteinInvestigation #SenJohnKennedy #EpsteinHearing #EpsteinDeath #FederalCustody #JeffreyEpsteinCase #CongressHearing #USJusticeSystem #ManhattanJail #EpsteinSuicide #BreakingNews #USPolitics #SenateHearing #JusticeDepartment #EpsteinUpdates #PrisonReform #CustodyFailures
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00:00Christmas ornaments, drywall, and Jerry Epstein.
00:06Name three things that don't hang themselves.
00:09That's what the American people think.
00:12That's what the American people think.
00:15And they deserve some answers.
00:18And I know that you're not in charge of these investigations.
00:22Yes, sir.
00:23But you talk to the people who are.
00:27And I need you to take a very respectful message today.
00:36Tell the American people what happened.
00:40And don't rush it so that they don't do a thorough investigation.
00:44But you and I both know they can make this a top priority and get it done more quickly
00:50than they normally would.
00:52As I indicated in my opening statement, I wanted to talk about the death of Mr. Epstein.
00:56Do you concur with the opinion that it was a suicide?
01:03That was the finding of the coroner, sir.
01:05Okay.
01:06Do you have any evidence to suggest otherwise?
01:07I do not.
01:08How could this have happened?
01:10Unfortunately, sir, the death and the whole situation is still under the investigation
01:16of the FBI and the Inspector General's Office.
01:19And I'm really not at liberty to discuss specifics of this case.
01:23I can discuss issues around institutional operations, but I can't specifically talk about
01:28that particular issue.
01:29Okay.
01:30With a case this high profile, there's got to be either a major malfunction of the system
01:37or a criminal enterprise at foot to allow this to happen.
01:40So, are you looking at both?
01:42Is the FBI looking at both?
01:44If the FBI is involved, then they are looking at criminal enterprise, yes.
01:47Do we have people in custody today of this high profile nature?
01:53Have we done anything to adjust since Mr. Epstein's death?
01:57Sir, we take every inmate's life very seriously in the Bureau of Prisons.
02:01A high profile inmate is no more important or significant in terms of our operations than
02:07just the average inmate that comes our way.
02:08What do you mean, high profile, somebody who's on a suicide watch?
02:11I would like to explain our suicide watch system, if I may.
02:14I can't talk specifically about Epstein, but we have different tiers of response if we identify
02:19an inmate who appears to have suicidal thinking.
02:22And I came into the Bureau as a psychologist.
02:24I've worked with lots of suicidal inmates.
02:26I was a warden at our psychiatric facility in Butner, and I know how difficult it is to always
02:30be able to predict who is suicidal and who is not.
02:32But once an inmate is identified as potentially suicidal, we have a suicide watch operation
02:36that we can place them in.
02:38It's a very stark, very difficult setting where everything is stripped from the room except
02:42a mattress.
02:43They get a coarse gown like to wear that cannot be twisted in any way that they could hang
02:47themselves from it.
02:49They have one mattress and one blanket, and they are watched constantly.
02:52There's nothing else in that room.
02:53Is Mr. Epstein on suicide watch?
02:55Yes, he watched.
02:56However, the average time on suicide watch is only about 24 hours because it is such
03:01a stark and actually depressing situation.
03:03We then can move them to another tier of observation, which is called psychological observation.
03:07Did that happen in this case?
03:09I can't speak specifically, but I am sharing this with you so that you understand our procedure,
03:13sir.
03:15They then can move to another tier, which is psychological observation, where they get their
03:19clothes back.
03:20They're in a more normalized setting.
03:22They are watched and scrutinized every moment of the day, but that is a much more normal
03:26environment.
03:27Do they have roommates?
03:28I'm sorry, sir?
03:29Do they have roommates?
03:30No, they do not when they're on psychological observation because they're being watched
03:34continuously.
03:35Did Mr. Epstein have a roommate when he allegedly committed suicide?
03:37No, he did not.
03:38Okay.
03:39Go ahead.
03:40The move into the psychological observation, psychologists see them routinely, interview
03:46them repeatedly.
03:47And once it's determined that the threat of suicide seems to have passed, then that
03:53inmate can be returned back to open population.
03:55Paul Melvin, Jr.: Well, clearly it didn't work here.
03:59So we await the report because all the victims of Mr. Epstein have to have their heart ripped
04:05out.
04:06I still never see justice.
04:08Dr. Sawyer, can you think of any other incidents in the history of the BOP that have caused
04:15as much crisis for public trust for your institution as Epstein's death?
04:19I can only speak for the, since 1976 when I joined the Bureau, I don't know prior to
04:24that, but I would say it's probably gotten the most public attention.
04:28There are lots of taxpayers and citizens who've never thought about the BOP and you have lots
04:32of good patriotic, hardworking folks there, I get that.
04:34But in terms of a crisis of public trust in general, but also in terms of your workforce,
04:40this death happened in the middle of August, early August.
04:43It's Thanksgiving and you're here to testify today and you say you're not allowed to speak
04:47about this incident.
04:48I think that's crazy.
04:49Can you distinguish among types of investigations at least for us?
04:53Because I'm aware of at least three Epstein investigations.
04:55You get a whole bunch of women who were raped by this guy.
04:58This is a sex trafficking ring in the United States.
05:01This guy had evidence, he's got co-conspirators, and there are victims out there who want to
05:06know where the evidence has gone.
05:09Can you tell us a little bit more about the different investigations?
05:12I understand there's at least one that you're directed by Maine Justice not to speak about,
05:16but there are at least three investigations.
05:18Can you unpack them, please?
05:19There are two investigations that are ongoing.
05:21One is the FBI's investigation and the other is the Inspector General's investigation.
05:25Both inside BOP, but there's a third one outside, which is why Epstein was in your
05:29institution to begin with.
05:30Yeah, and that, sir, is completely out of my...
05:33I get that.
05:34There's a lot here where DOJ has failed.
05:36There's a lot here that BOP has failed.
05:38Let's just be clear.
05:38So we have a level set for everybody in this room.
05:40You're in your job because of this crisis, right?
05:44You come here today and you say you can't testify about it, but the reason you're director
05:48now is because the last guy got fired, right?
05:50Senator, I can't tell you what I don't know.
05:52I have received no information from the FBI investigation yet, nor no information from
05:56the Inspector General.
05:57Once those entities go into one of our facilities, we are forbidden from talking to anybody in
06:02the institution.
06:03We can send in a team and look at wherever there might have been a security flaw or something,
06:07but we are not allowed to talk to anybody in our institutions about anything that happened
06:12over the episode.
06:13With all due respect, you still have an obligation to speak to the girls who were raped by this
06:17guy today.
06:18You may not have to speak about every particular of the guards that were arrested last night,
06:23but the fact that there is an ongoing attempt by the United States government to find out
06:27if there's still any evidence about the co-conspirators, you do have an obligation to speak to those
06:32girls who were raped today.
06:34You may not speak about the specifics of the charges against those two guards this morning
06:40who were taken into custody, but more broadly, you should be able to unpack, have we changed
06:45any processes about how cases like this are handled?
06:48It's been more than 90 days, and you said, I think your quote was, we treat every inmate
06:52the same.
06:53We believe in America that every individual has equal dignity, but not every inmate has
06:58equal value for future criminal investigations.
07:02Jeffrey Epstein was still to testify in a case.
07:04Somebody who's already been convicted who may be on suicide watch, there are lots of good
07:09reasons to not want that guy to be able to kill himself.
07:12This is different, because it isn't just about the individual inmate who might kill themselves,
07:16it's about the fact that that bastard wasn't able to testify against his other co-conspirators.
07:21So it is wrong as a management matter for you to say we treat everybody the same.
07:26We should be treating people who are yet to testify against other felons, against other
07:31rapists.
07:32They have a lot more priority for your institution, don't they?
07:35Senator, pretty much all of our inmates that are in any of our jail facilities are pretrial.
07:40They're still yet to testify, to be involved, to share information on other cases.
07:45I don't know what evidence you're asking of me.
07:47If you're saying, was there any evidence in his room, in his possession at the time?
07:50That was all confiscated by the FBI.
07:52In his brain, and in the cameras, and in the tapes, that the American public well understands
07:56appear to not be urgent enough for the Department of Justice.
08:00No, it's very urgent for the Department of Justice, and it's all been confiscated by
08:03the FBI, and it's all part of their investigation.
08:06That's why none of that is shared with the Director of the Bureau of Prisons, or anyone
08:09in the Bureau, until the investigations are completed.
08:12Once those are completed, I'd be very happy to come up here and talk with any one of you
08:15that want to hear everything about we glean from those investigations.
08:19But until I have that information, there's nothing I can tell you.
08:22If I don't have the information, I cannot share anything with you.
08:25Then how widespread is the problem of sleeping on the job?
08:28There are lots of people in the public who think this seems a very convenient excuse.
08:33And so, tell us, is it a systemic problem?
08:35Do we have a lot of people who sleep on the job when they're supposed to be guarding federal
08:38inmates?
08:39We have a few, sir, and we have been monitoring the cameras that are existing in every one of
08:44our institutions to determine how well and how effectively our inmates are, I mean,
08:47our staff members are doing their rounds and counts in the institutions.
08:51We have found a couple of other instances, and we have immediately referred those to
08:55the Inspector General's office.
08:56And I'm encouraging that if people just chose not to do their job, we're hoping the U.S.
09:01Attorney's Office will pick up those cases and prosecute them for us, because we don't
09:05want those people in the Bureau of Prisons.
09:07They are dangerous to everybody, the inmates and the staff.
09:10And so, we are zealously going about trying to determine which of our employees are good
09:15employees and who do their job, and that is the vast majority of the prison staff.
09:19But we do have some, I know, out there who obviously choose not to follow policy, choose
09:25not to do their job, and we want them gone.
09:28I do not want them in our institutions, and I am exploring those very, very carefully to
09:32identify them and get them out of our system.
09:34Now, if it's a training problem and they didn't know what they were supposed to do, that's
09:37our problem, that's management's problem.
09:39We have to do a better job training our staff.
09:42But if someone is well-trained, well-experienced, and chooses not to do their job, we want them
09:47gone.
09:47I assure you of that.
09:49I'm at time, so I'll just give you a preview of something I'm going to ask you for the
09:52record after the event.
09:53You made a really important statement about drone drops of different kinds of contraband
09:57into your institutions.
09:59That's obviously a new and hard problem.
10:01That's a problem against which we have to play defense, but there's also new opportunities
10:05for offense.
10:05And so what's your long-term strategy is inside the institution about cameras is something
10:10that I think a lot of us would like to hear more, and I'll send you a letter with some
10:13questions.
10:14Because Epstein's hallway should have still been monitored by cameras, even if his guards
10:18were asleep, and we don't have information about whether or not there were adequate cameras
10:22there.
10:22And so I think a lot of us would like to understand where technology dollars are going.
10:25Absolutely.
10:26Thank you, Dr. Swerg.
10:26Thank you, Senator.
10:27Senator Blumenthal's next, but just follow up on this.
10:29Will there be an IG report regarding what happened?
10:32There should be.
10:33Usually after the Inspector General's Office investigates, they do come out with a report.
10:37If people are pending criminal charges, we're not going to interfere in their cases.
10:40But if there's an IG report, I promise you we'll get fully briefed by the committee here.
10:49How can I put this?
10:50Christmas ornaments, drywall, and Jerry Epstein.
10:57Name three things that don't hang themselves.
11:01That's what the American people think.
11:04That's what the American people think.
11:07And they deserve some answers.
11:10And I know that you're not in charge of these investigations.
11:14Yes, sir.
11:15But you talk to the people who are.
11:19And I need you to take a very respectful message today.
11:28Tell the American people what happened.
11:32And don't rush it so that they don't do a thorough investigation.
11:36But you and I both know they can make this a top priority and get it done more quickly than they normally would.
11:45Director, the first time you saw Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files.
11:49Did you close the files or keep reading?
11:55I've reviewed not the entirety of the files.
11:58So you haven't reviewed all of the Epstein files?
12:01Personally, no.
12:02You're the director of the FBI.
12:03This is the largest sex trafficking case the FBI has ever been a part of.
12:08Buck stops at the top.
12:10And your testimony today is you have not reviewed all the files.
12:12What I've been doing is busy providing the safest country this country has seen in modern U.S. history in historic speed because the men and women of the FBI are given the resources to reduce the homicide rate, to reduce the drug trafficking rate, to reduce the amount of children that are being trafficked.
12:27Well, it sounds like those children being trafficked would appreciate the director reviewing the files.
12:32You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name appears in the files.
12:36So it could at least be a thousand times.
12:38Is that right?
12:40The number is a total misleading factor.
12:43We have not released anyone's name in the Epstein files that has not been credible.
12:49Director, could it at least be a thousand times?
12:50It could at least every piece of legally permissible information.
12:53You can characterize the numbers however you want it.
12:56You can claim you my time, director.
12:58It sounds like if you don't know the number, it could at least be a thousand times.
13:01It's not.
13:02It's not.
13:03Is it at least 500 times?
13:04No.
13:05Is it at least 100 times?
13:06No.
13:06Then what's the number?
13:07I don't know the number, but it's not that.
13:09Do you think it might be your job to know the number?
13:11My job is to provide for the safety and security of this country.
13:14My job is not to engage in political innuendo so you can go out to the sticks and get your
13:1920-second hit in your fundraising article.
13:22Keep going, reclaiming your time, because the people of California are being underserved
13:26by your representation.
13:27If the president is not implicated, why not release everything that involves politics?
13:31We have released everything, the president and anyone else's side, that is credible and
13:35lawfully be able to be released.
13:38Your fixation on this matter and baseless accusations that I'm hiding, child pedophiles, is disgusting.
13:44Anyone that says that needs to look at the stats alone and go back to the state of California,
13:48who's receiving the biggest surge in FBI resources through my redeployment because the cities
13:53of Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco need it.
13:55Reclaiming my time, Director, remembering your oath to tell the truth, did you ever tell
13:59Donald Trump his name is in the files?
14:02I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files.
14:06Did you ever tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?
14:11The Attorney General and I have had numerous discussions about the entirety of the Epstein
14:15files and the reviews conducted by our team.
14:17Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?
14:19And we have released where President Trump's name is in the Epstein files.
14:22It's a simple question.
14:23Did you tell the Attorney General that the President's name is in the Epstein files?
14:26During many conversations that the Attorney General and I have had on the matter of Epstein,
14:31we have reviewed.
14:32The question is simple.
14:33Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?
14:40Yes or no?
14:40Why don't you try spelling it out?
14:42Yes or no, Director.
14:43Use the alphabet.
14:44Yes or no?
14:45No?
14:45A, B, C, E, F?
14:46Director, it sounds like you don't want to tell us.
14:48Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files?
14:52Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this
14:57country and the number of pedophiles that are legally harbored in sanctuary cities in California?
15:03I'll work with you on that.
15:04Do you want to work with us on that?
15:06I belong to a gentleman from California.
15:08Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?
15:11The question has been asked and answered.
15:13You have not answered it and we will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt.
15:18Director, did Donald Trump ever say to you, just find and release the entire truth?
15:23Don't worry if I'm in it.
15:24The instructions from the administration were to release all credible information and we
15:28have done that.
15:29Did Donald Trump ever provide information about Jeffrey Epstein as an informant?
15:34Donald Trump has not been and I can only speak for the FBI as an informant of the FBI.
15:39So Director, you've played this cute shell game where you say you can't release everything
15:42because the court has said that it legally is not allowed to be released, but the court
15:48calls bullshit.
15:49Judge Richard Berman said that when you went to the court, quote,
15:53information contained in the Epstein grand jury transcripts pales, pales in comparison to
16:00Epstein investigation information and materials in the hands of the Department of Justice.
16:07So let's move on, Director.
16:08You wrote a book called Government Gangsters.
16:11You identified 20 individuals in that book.
16:14You put me on that list at the top of the list.
16:17My children find it flattering.
16:18Twenty of those individuals have been investigated or have had adverse actions.
16:23Director, considering that you have identified these people as, quote, government gangsters,
16:28will you recuse yourself from making any investigation decisions about these individuals?
16:33Anyone that has been terminated at the FBI has been done so because they failed to meet
16:37the muster in their constitutional obligation.
16:38I will work on the audiovisual capabilities.
16:41I'm going to borrow your terminology and call bullshit on your entire career in Congress.
16:45I'm reclaiming my time, Director.
16:46It has been a disgrace to the American people.
16:48Director, I'm reclaiming my time on that.
16:48You can reclaim your time all you want.
16:50Mr. Chairman, you're going to allow a witness to speak this way?
16:53Mr. Chairman, would you recuse yourself, Director?
16:55The gentleman has no time to be...
16:57Mr. Chairman, would you admonish the witness not to insult members?
17:00The gentleman has no time...
17:01Mr. Chairman, just...
17:02The committee will remember...
17:03Quick point of order.
17:04Could the gentleman be extended an additional 20 seconds to complete his thoughts since the witness
17:09decided to interrupt him continuously?
17:10And then the witness will be able to respond if he wants.
17:13Mr. Chairman, will you, Director, recuse yourself, yes or no, from investigating or making decisions
17:20about the 60 individuals, including myself, that you identified as government gangsters?
17:25Yes or no?
17:26Mr. Chairman, the gentleman has expired.
17:27The witness may respond if he would like.
17:29Mr. Chairman, the answer was no, as I heard.
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