00:00Hi, welcome back to Consider This, I'm Melissa Idris.
00:13Let's continue our discussion about the proposed Gender Parity in Political Representation Bill,
00:19which has been drafted by the NGOs behind Project 30%.
00:24This is a law that would require political parties to field at least 30% women candidates in elections.
00:32So joining me now on the show is Anfal Sa'ari, who is the Selangor State Exco for Women Development and Social Welfare.
00:40She's also the Deputy Chief of Angkatan Wanita Amananegar, which is the Women's Wing for Parti Amananegar.
00:47YB Anfal, thank you so much for joining me on the show today.
00:50So Project 30% is drafting this proposed legislation to mandate 30% political candidacy in elections.
01:01Talk to me a little bit about how you see this.
01:04As an adun and as the Deputy Women Head for Amanah Women, how do you see this?
01:11How disruptive might this be if we were to legally mandate 30% women candidates?
01:18What are your thoughts?
01:20Okay, thank you, Melissa.
01:24I think it is something extraordinary when it's an NGO who drafting a bill rather than from a politician or from the they want.
01:34So to me, if it's disruptive, yes, but disruption does not necessarily mean something negative.
01:41And the discussion on a 30% target for women in leadership and decision making is not new.
01:47It has existed since the early 1990s from Malaysia-ratified SIDOR in 1995 and Beijing Platform.
01:56And later, this commitment was reflected in the ninth Malaysia plan, RMK 9, in 2006.
02:04Yet, 30 years after the Beijing Platform for Action and almost 20 years after RMK 9, women's representation in politics remains far below 30%, both at parliament and also state assembly levels.
02:19And this tells us something important that targets and advocacy alone have not been sufficient.
02:25That is why we support considering a gender quota, not because women lack of capability, but because the system has failed to translate decades of commitment into outcomes.
02:38In fact, over the last 20 to 30 years, we have already built many institutions, training programs and leadership pipelines that have produced women leadership, women leaders who are capable, competent and accomplished.
02:54But the issue today is not about readiness, but it is about access.
03:00And this is why a top-down structural approach is now necessary, alongside continued bottom-up efforts to strengthen visibility skills and grassroots engagement.
03:13This structural reform reopens the door where we would like to talk more about capacity building, which ensures women can walk through it and lead effectively.
03:23Right. So I understand that there's been this target for that threshold of 30% for a long time.
03:32However, now NGOs are pushing for this to be legally mandated.
03:36And I'm just wondering, as a lawmaker yourself, where do you anticipate the strongest pushback to come from for pushing through a bill like this?
03:49Do you think it's feasible? Do you think that this type of legislation that legally mandates 30% women candidates, do you think that could pass in parliament?
03:59Yeah, I think the strongest pushback may come from the grassroots level, particularly from the individuals who have spent years preparing for candidacy, mostly men,
04:09where they do serving communities, building local networks and earning their place within the party structure.
04:16But when we talk about quota, this means that we have to lessen or reduce a number of candidacy among the men.
04:26And that concern is understandable.
04:29So the grassroots work involves real sacrifice and any structural reform can feel like it disrupts the pathway people have fought hard to build.
04:39And at the same time, we must also be honest that women need to step up.
04:43I think in order to give women that access, it requires to build strong grassroots presence as well.
04:51So gender parity is not about bypassing all the groundwork.
04:55Women must go hand-in-hand with community engagement and services.
05:00What will persuade lawmakers and party leaders is a balanced approach.
05:04I think first is the assurance that grassroots service and merit will continue to matter.
05:11And second, a phased and predictable implementation, not a sudden shock.
05:15And the third one is a parallel investment in developing women leaders at the local level.
05:22Another pushback is male politicians.
05:25And having said that, we have to see it is very crucial to get support from the seasoned male politicians.
05:34So what are required from them?
05:36Those who are already hold influential positions must be willing to open space,
05:42being a mentor and actively advocate for competent women leaders.
05:47Without this, a leadership, structural reform alone will not succeed.
05:52So to me, these pushbacks are real, especially for women as lawmakers.
05:57And even for myself, being a first-term lawmaker and also an ex-co state administrator,
06:05I have some challenges among the party members as well,
06:11especially when they see there's an opportunity to be a candidate in the next election.
06:18You said it requires some sacrifice.
06:21And I do wonder if you think that the male majority parliament that we have currently
06:29would be willing to make that sacrifice, to see at least 30% women candidacy.
06:38Is that something that you see happening, YB?
06:42I could say I'm quite happy, although it's not yet to meet this expectation.
06:49From our party, Amanah Negara, for example, for instance,
06:54for this upcoming council, councillors for local council,
07:00we began, our chairman for Amanah Negeri Selangor,
07:04that will be Datuk Islam, began with,
07:06we must set this precedent of 30% women being given first,
07:11then only the balance for the men.
07:14So I think we must get to advocate a male alliance
07:19for them to understand and get buy-ins.
07:21So this sacrifice must begin with those top leaders,
07:26male politicians who understand.
07:29So it requires sacrifice because they also understand
07:32they have to sacrifice some of the men supporters or their allies,
07:40so to say that they are not getting the chance in the next upcoming election,
07:47but they have to queue in order to give ways to women politicians.
07:55Selangor State Assembly has 16% women representation currently.
08:02As someone who has won and has held office and is part of that 16%,
08:08do you think that having 30% will give you more momentum
08:13to focus on issues that you think would serve your community,
08:20particularly women-centric issues?
08:22And I'm just wondering, apart from that 30% threshold
08:26and allowing for more women to run,
08:28what kind of other support mechanisms would matter to women candidates
08:35rather than just having that 30% number?
08:41I think number matters because they open the door.
08:45So that this is supported by evidence that 30% is a threshold
08:49that it will normalise,
08:51that people see leadership based on merits rather than gender-based.
08:55But institutions determine whether women can function,
09:00grow and lead once they are inside.
09:02As for example, from my experience,
09:06supportive leadership at the top is very critical.
09:09When the Menteri Besar and the Speaker of Selangor State Legislative Assembly
09:15are clearly committed to women's empowerment,
09:19it sets a tone for the entire institution.
09:21So this kind of leadership support translates into
09:25fairer and more inclusive decision-making.
09:28They are willing to listen.
09:30They are open for any ideas to strengthen women
09:35and also to strengthen the rakyat agenda
09:39and greater openness to women's voices in debates and committees.
09:45For example, we have Siwanis, Sidang Wanita Selangor.
09:48It is a project to increase women's competency
09:51and for the women at large,
09:54understand what is the legislation process taking place.
09:58So it is open not only for political activists from party,
10:03but also non-partisan.
10:05So it is to give exposure.
10:07So we came to third year.
10:10So the support came from the Speaker of Selangor State Legislative Assembly
10:14to use the chamber itself rather than using other halls and hotels.
10:22So it is important to get support to set the tone for the whole institution.
10:30And third one is a safer environment,
10:33free from gender-based marginalization.
10:35And I still hear the misogynistic comments from the male politician,
10:43even though he is making fun.
10:46So it is like part of their daily talk.
10:50So we like to provide this safer environment.
10:54And it matters more to get that kind of support.
10:59And beyond leadership, transparent party structures,
11:03protection from harassment,
11:05recognition of caregiving realities,
11:08and mentorship pathways all matter.
11:11So to me, from my party,
11:14we believe that Amanah is a stand tall
11:19together with other perpaduan Kerajaan Madani's partner, coalition.
11:24So we have equal say to ensure that women are given this opportunity.
11:33And ultimately, representation must translate into authority,
11:38influence, and effectiveness.
11:40Thus, gender quotas can open the door,
11:43but supportive leadership,
11:45strong institutions,
11:46and relationship from experienced leaders
11:48are what allowed women to shape outcomes meaningfully.
11:52I really hope that we get to see this
11:55by the next general elections.
11:58And hopefully, Amanah will also be pushing
12:00for 30% women candidates there.
12:03YB Anfal, thank you so much for being on the show with me today.
12:06I really appreciate your time.
12:07YB Anfal Sa'ari there,
12:08wrapping up this episode of Consider This.
12:11I'm Melissa Idris, signing off for the evening.
12:13Thank you so much for watching,
12:14and good night.
12:15I'm Melissa Idris, signing off for the evening.
12:16Thank you so much for watching.
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