- 7 months ago
- #thefutureisfemale
On this episode of #TheFutureIsFemale, Melisa Idris speaks to two of the Malaysian awardees of the L’Oréal-UNESCO For Women in Science programme: Dr Noorfatimah Yahaya, Associate Professor at USM’s Cancer
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00:00Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to The Future is Female. This is the
00:15show where we find the extraordinary in every woman. This week, we're highlighting two Malaysian
00:21scientists recognized by the L'Oreal UNESCO for Women in Science program. I have with me,
00:28joining me first is Dr. Nur Fatimah Yahya, Associate Professor at USM's Cancer Research and
00:36Specialist Centre. Dr. Nur Fatimah, thank you so much for being on the show with me today. I want
00:43to say first, congratulations on being one of the three Malaysian awardees for this program. So,
00:50kudos to you and let's learn a little bit more about what you do, about what about your research
00:56was recognized by the L'Oreal UNESCO for Women program. So, talk to me a little bit about
01:03yourself, your journey and your research. Okay, all right. Alhamdulillah, thank you very much to
01:10Melissa, to Esra Awani for inviting me for this interview. So, actually, tell about my research,
01:18actually, I was drawn to this area when my clinical collaborator from Pharmaceutical Sciences in USM
01:26approached me about the need for a reliable method to measure one antibiotic that we call as
01:33UNASIN, okay, to measure this UNASIN in human plasma samples or biological samples. So, as a scientist in
01:43analytical chemistry, especially at the Medical and Dental Institute in Penang, in USM Penang,
01:50I am inspired to contribute to advancing the healthcare system in terms of development of
01:57reliable analytical method for these biological samples. So, in this work, okay, we currently develop
02:04an innovative and green and rapid method to measure UNASIN level or UNASIN antibiotic levels in plasma.
02:12And then, after that, we will bring this data, okay, to check the or to develop the optimal dosing for
02:21these patients. And the last one will be development of personalized dosing system, the dosing which
02:28are specific to individual patient. So, this research actually providing a solution that improves the
02:37risk of toxicity, effectiveness of the antibiotic and improves the healthcare system.
02:46Right. I have a quick question. So, I'm a lay person with no medical training or scientific background. So, when you talk
02:53about UNASIN antibiotic levels in plasma. So, UNASIN is currently used, right? It's currently being used
03:01in medical treatment. What is the current issue? Now, what is the problem, if I may use that word, with how it's
03:08currently being dosed? Why does it matter that we measure the levels? All right. So, very sorry if I'm using very scientific term, but in a lemon term, actually, this UNASIN is commonly used in hospitals, especially in
03:21critically ill patients. So, when this UNASIN is used in antibiotic use for critically ill patients, we cannot tolerate the less appropriate dosing because they are in critical condition.
03:35They need the antibiotic to be accurate in dosing. So, at the moment, the hospital in Malaysia, they are using the standard general guideline for dosing of this UNASIN. We do not have
03:49specific dosing for antibody or for individual patients. But different patients, they have different severity, different factors that can contribute to the outcomes or the treatment outcomes. So, we need this specific dosing for this patient.
04:07Amazing. So, how do you make sure that there is specific dosing tailored for specific patients? How do you do that?
04:19All right. So, the challenge in this study is that we need to collect many data or many sample patients so that we can use AI or machine learning to help us to identify the key
04:31predictors of the treatment outcomes. So, one, we identify these key predictors for the treatment outcome. So, we can have like, we can identify and we know which parameters or factors that contribute to the effectiveness of this antibiotic and we can do for personalized dosing system for each patient.
04:51Oh, that's amazing. So, that's amazing. So, that's amazing. So, you're actually using AI to make medicine more personalized.
04:58A precision medicine. Is this groundbreaking? Have we been able to use AI in such ways before?
05:08Before this, I think there are a few attempts to do personalized dosing. But in my case, what is unique about my project and my collaborators in USM is that I actually applied a greener method to measure this UNASIN level.
05:29So, we actually incorporate a greener and rapid method to identify the level of UNASIN in human plasma samples.
05:37Oh, what does that mean? A greener?
05:39So, when we have a very rapid method, the personalized dosing system will be developed efficiently and we can make sure that it is accurate and reliable to be used.
05:49I love that. Okay. So, this is the research, right? So, you have it already. You've been working on this. How many years have you been working on this research?
05:58Actually, I have been involved with antibiotic research since my PhD in 2010. I started my PhD in 2010. So, until now, I actually explored on antibiotic detection.
06:10And with this project, it actually gives me an opportunity to translate what I have been doing in research to translate to the real scenario, especially in patient care.
06:23Okay. So, now is the phase of transitioning or translating this research into real-world settings, into hospital settings. Can you explain what needs to happen for you to be able to do that?
06:39So, one of it is because we have a funding so that we can analyze the real patients because to analyze the big, I mean, big sample, we required funds, right?
06:50Because we need chemicals, we need to buy some maintenance for instrumentation. So, with this fund, actually, it actually support us to move forward from the laboratory to the patient.
07:02I mean, to analyze the real patient's plasma and then we actually develop this system, which is the personalized dosing system for UNASIN.
07:12So, because you are one of the Malaysian recipients of the L'Oreal UNESCO for Women in Science program that comes with some monetary support, will that allow you to do this, to translate, to bring it to the hospital setting?
07:29Yes, because although it is not very much, I think because, but it still, it still actually helps us to like 30,000, it still supports us to top up some of the funds that we already have.
07:42So, we already established this under the university grant. So, we carry out and do more validation study in the real patient samples. It's allowed us to do this.
07:53Amazing. Okay. So, I really, I love that programs like this supports women in STEM, women in science, particularly mid-career women like yourself.
08:05Because I think sometimes people assume that, you know, for scientists, let the kind of let the work speak for itself.
08:12But in reality, you need support, right? So, talk to me about why it's important that we support and programs like this support women scientists like yourself, particularly in this stage of your careers.
08:27I think funding is very powerful because it's actually enable the discovery, right? Especially any discovery in science, any research findings, it started with funding. If we do not have fund, we cannot start the research.
08:43But women scientists, I think we also need environment that empower us to actually, for example, leadership opportunities, any mentorship, activities, recognition and encouragement.
08:58I think with all these supports, women also, I think with all these platforms like Laurier UNESCO and all the supports, women scientists can make a very meaningful impact.
09:11I think, I think, I think not only in Malaysia, but also globally.
09:15Are you seeing that in your field, that there is more support, structural support for women? Because we often hear that, you know, while there are many women in STEM, many of them, you know, they fall out of the career pipeline or they don't move up the ranks to leadership positions.
09:36What are you seeing? What are you seeing? You know, you've been in this industry for some time, you've been working as a researcher for some time. Are you seeing things change for the better?
09:46Hmm, I think in my case, I'm not sure about others. But in my case, I have a lot of female postgraduate students compared to the male.
09:56But I am, I'm not sure whether they actually will move forward becoming a scientist after this. I'm not sure about that. But at the moment, most of my postgraduate students, PhD and Master students, most of them, they are female, which is good.
10:13This is a good thing. But I think other than funding all the support from our, I mean, from the government, from the agencies, we also need to have support from our family.
10:29I am lucky enough because I have a support from my family who never stopped me to, to actually apply to becoming a better for myself.
10:40Wonderful. That's lovely. What is it that Dr. Fatima, if I may ask you, based on this research, your work that you are hoping to move on to with real world settings, what are you hoping to achieve or maybe to, what would success look like to you?
11:01So, to be honest, in this work, I actually work with my other two colleagues who is a pharmaceutical, from pharmaceutical background and also statistician.
11:13So, we work together to form this personalized dosing system for UNASID. If this system, the personalized dosing, is implemented in hospital, it actually could transform patient care.
11:25Because doctor will no longer rely on the general guideline, they can have the real data that tailored to each patient.
11:34This means that we can have more effective treatment, with fewer side effects, reduce risk of complication, shorter hospital stays, and of course, it will lower the healthcare costs and to control the antibiotic resistance.
11:51So, I think overall, it's actually, this research will strengthen our healthcare system.
11:57That's really, really encouraging to hear.
11:59I am also very encouraged to hear that many of your postgraduate students are women.
12:06Do you have advice for young women today who are either thinking about pursuing studies or career in your field or in other scientific fields?
12:18But what advice would you give them to make sure that they see through maybe their potential?
12:24So, for me, I will advise to the young researcher or young students, young generation lah.
12:33What I will advise is that never give up and always try your best.
12:38Because we actually learn, when we fail, we actually learn and take it as a lesson for us.
12:45Okay, that is, there is no failure but instead we are taking that as a lesson and experience for us and keep moving forward.
12:52Dr. Narfathima, thank you so much for speaking with me and once again, congratulations on being recognised as one of the recipients for the L'Oreal UNESCO for Women in Science programme.
13:06Well deserved, thank you.
13:08We'll be right back after this and we'll speak to another recipient of the programme.
13:14So, make sure you stay tuned to The Futures Female.
13:18Hi, welcome back to The Futures Female, I'm Melissa Idris.
13:43And joining me now is one of the three Malaysian scientists recognised by the L'Oreal UNESCO for Women in Science programme, Dr. Tan Ling Ling, who is a Senior Lecturer at the School of Engineering at Monash University, Malaysia.
13:59Dr. Tan, welcome to the show and may I first say congratulations on being recognised, your work being recognised by such a prestigious programme.
14:08Thank you, thank you for having me.
14:09So, let's get to know you a little bit better and get to know a bit more about your work.
14:14So, tell me a little bit about yourself and how you ended up working in this field.
14:19So, if I'm not mistaken, you are a materials scientist.
14:23Tell me about that.
14:24Not a lot of people are familiar with that field, I think.
14:28All right.
14:28So, hi, I'm Dr. Tan Ling Ling, Senior Lecturer at the School of Engineering, and I'm also the Director of the Nano Analytical Platform at the University.
14:39So, my research focuses on photocatalysis, which is a technology that uses sunlight to drive chemical reactions.
14:48So, how I would explain this is, you can think of it like artificial photosynthesis.
14:55So, just like how plants use sunlight to convert carbon dioxide into food, we design special materials that take sunlight and convert CO2 into fuels.
15:07And these fuels can be stored and used later as clean energy.
15:11So, how is that different from solar energy?
15:17Talk to me about, because solar, we frame it as a daytime solution, right?
15:24So, one of the main problems with solar technologies like solar panels is that they only work when the sun is shining.
15:33So, when the light disappears during cloudy days or at night, energy production stops.
15:39And that greatly limits the reliability of solar energy.
15:44So, my research aims to overcome this limitation by designing special materials that can continue producing solar fuels even after sunset.
15:55Right.
15:56And what kind of special materials are there?
15:58Like, how would it work?
16:00We call these materials persistent luminescent nanoparticles or PLNPs for short.
16:07So, they basically behave like tiny rechargeable light batteries.
16:13So, when there's sunlight, these nanoparticles would charge up.
16:17And later in the dark, they release the stored energy to keep the reactions going.
16:22Is that challenging?
16:26I mean, technologically speaking or conceptually, it sounds fantastic.
16:30But how do you go about doing that?
16:32How does it, what makes it scientifically challenging to have this photocatalyst system?
16:39So, this persistent luminescent nanoparticle, it is a relatively new material that we are working on.
16:47So, currently, we're working on optimizing the efficiency and its long-term stability.
16:53So, the science is strong, but the engineering and durability under industrial conditions must first be validated before we can commercialize it.
17:02Okay. And where are you at in terms of your research?
17:05The science, you said, is strong.
17:07So, are you working into translating this into real-to-world applications?
17:13At the moment, the research is still at the laboratory stage, yeah.
17:18Right.
17:18And so, what's next in terms of where you go from here?
17:24The L'Oreal UNESCO for Women in Science program comes with some support, monetary support as well.
17:34Will that help with your research?
17:37Definitely.
17:37This award will provide the resources for me to accelerate this research,
17:42particularly on the fabrication and testing of the state material.
17:46So, once that is done, we can move on to subsequent phases,
17:51which include pilot-scale reactor testing and so on.
17:55Dr. Tan, can I ask you, what made you focus in on this?
18:02I understand that solar energy, there are issues with it being a renewable resource
18:08because of the inability to maybe store as much as possible.
18:12So, when you were first embarking on this research for the day-night photocatalyst system,
18:21what made you think that this could be a viable option for us, for our energy in the future?
18:30Yeah, because I've been working on photocatalsis for quite a while now,
18:34but the limitation, as mentioned, is that it is only active during the day.
18:41So, that is why I chose to focus on this particular material system that could potentially work day and night.
18:49So, this will be very useful for households and for the industry.
18:55I mean, I can imagine the potential of it.
18:59As a researcher, when you think about the way this could potentially change our approach to energy systems,
19:09what are you thinking?
19:10I mean, how do you make sure, what is it that you wish would happen in terms of making your research
19:17something that's commercially viable and able to have a real-world application?
19:24So, I envision this technology being integrated into solar refineries.
19:30So, these are basically systems that can continuously produce fuels around the clock.
19:37And industrially, this technology could also be adopted at sectors focusing on carbon utilization,
19:44hydrogen production, and wastewater treatment.
19:46And so, there are quite a lot of things to do, but I'm quite optimistic that it will work out.
19:53I'm optimistic for you.
19:55And I'm happy to see that organizations like L'Oreal UNESCO are providing support for scientists,
20:03particularly women scientists, putting effort or putting support into their work
20:11and giving an ability for you to be able to reach that potential.
20:15So, when you think about the support that they've given beyond funding,
20:20what kind of support do you think makes the most difference for women scientists like yourself?
20:28I think visibility, mentorship, and trust can make a huge difference.
20:33So, women scientists need to be seen, heard, and given the opportunities to lead.
20:39So, programs like the L'Oreal UNESCO for Women in Science, they are very important,
20:45not only because they provide funding, but because they send a strong message that women can
20:52and should be at the forefront of science and innovation.
20:56Is that, have you seen those areas improve in the time that you have been a scientist,
21:03a researcher yourself?
21:04The fact that it increases in visibility or even mentorship and leadership opportunities?
21:12Yeah, definitely.
21:13Because many areas of research are still male-dominated, but I do see improvement in the environment.
21:21Yeah.
21:21That is very encouraging.
21:23And where to next?
21:25So, now that you have had this wonderful recognition for your research
21:30and the immense potential that it can bring,
21:32what's the next step and what are you hoping to look into the next phase of your research?
21:40The next phase of my research.
21:42So, this project will focus on the development of the material,
21:47and hopefully this will open more doors for larger-scale grants and long-term development.
21:54Because, as mentioned, the research is currently done at the laboratory scale,
21:58but ultimately, my goal is to develop a working prototype that can work under real-world conditions.
22:04So, basically to bridge the gap from fundamental research to practical implementation.
22:10Yeah, and think of the opportunities that it could have with renewable energies.
22:16Are you optimistic about the, when you think about the future of energy and the climate,
22:23are you, what gives you hope?
22:25And if I may ask, also what frustrates you about it?
22:28Well, what gives me hope is that, is how rapidly the science and young talents are advancing.
22:36We already have many, many promising technologies to tackle climate change.
22:41But what frustrates me is how challenging it can be to translate these solutions from the lab
22:49into real-world applications.
22:51But, well, like I said, I'm optimistic that with continued research and support,
22:57technologies like photocatalysis can move beyond the lab and contribute meaningfully.
23:03Absolutely.
23:03Yeah, scientific breakthroughs, research essentially is very long-term.
23:07It's uncertain and it cannot really take years.
23:10How do you not lose motivation when progress can feel slow sometimes?
23:18That's a good question.
23:20So, well, we need to persevere.
23:23And, well, I've had many negative results throughout my research.
23:28But whenever you get positive results, it's very, very motivating.
23:32Yeah, and the thought that this could potentially contribute to clean energy one day keeps me going.
23:39Oh, well, Dr. Tan, thank you so much for being on the show with me.
23:44And once again, congratulations on being recognized and awarded under the L'Oreal UNESCO for Women's Science Programme.
23:51I appreciate your time.
23:52Thank you for being on the show with me.
23:54Thank you very much, Melissa.
23:55That was Dr. Tan Ling from the School of Engineering in Monash University, Malaysia.
24:00And that wraps up this episode of The Features Female.
24:03I'm Melissa Idris signing off for the evening.
24:05Thank you so much for watching and good night.
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