- 6 tuần trước
Crime Night! - Season 1 Episode 5
Danh mục
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Vui nhộnPhụ đề
00:00Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
00:30Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
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03:05Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
03:37Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
03:39But then, it takes a turn.
03:41Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
03:43Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
03:45Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
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04:14Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi.
04:15nhưng mà không có thể nói rằng có thể nói rằng khi bạn có thể nói chuyện,
04:18thì có thể nói chuyện thử thông tin tế.
04:20Nói, khi bạn nghĩ, bạn đã nói chuyện này và đều đã nói chuyện này,
04:24nhưng có thể nói chuyện này này đang xảy ra và nói hỏi.
04:26Tên bạn có một tham gia về tổng thông,
04:28thì bạn đã vào một đứa học,
04:29bạn đã vào một trẻ giáo dục,
04:31bạn có thể nghĩ, hãy bạn có thể nghĩ,
04:33nhưng bạn đã tìm hiểu teammates,
04:34nhưng bạn có thể hiện tài tạo ra.
04:35Tại vì bạn có thể nói chuyện này,
04:37và bạn có thể nghĩ,
04:38bạn có thể nói chuyện này là tốt hơn.
04:39Bạn muốn chúng ta làm như thế giới thông tin.
04:41như thế nào.
04:42Thế are so beautiful
04:43and they're so simple
04:44because they highlight
04:45just these fundamental
04:47basic social norms
04:48that we all adhere to.
04:50All of our behaviour
04:51is underpinned
04:52by these basic principles.
04:53So, a third of participants
04:55conformed with the clearly
04:57wrong answers
04:58that the group provided.
05:00And that pretty much suggests
05:01that in any situation,
05:03a third of us
05:04are likely to conform
05:05even when we know
05:06what we're conforming to
05:07is wrong.
05:08Now, is it that they're conforming
05:09or just a third of people
05:10that people need glasses?
05:12Let's expand it out a bit.
05:13Let's think about
05:14property crime and violent crime.
05:16You can think about it like this.
05:17Sometimes you hear cases
05:18where there's groups of people,
05:20might be four or five people together,
05:22one of them decides
05:23to commit an offence
05:24and the others just go along with it.
05:26And part of this experiment
05:28helps to explain that
05:29because they're not prepared
05:30to put their hand up
05:31and say, hey, this isn't right.
05:33But there is a bit of a difference
05:34between measuring a line
05:35and crossing a line, isn't it?
05:38Because your mistakes aren't that high.
05:39You'd be like, yeah,
05:40I think they're all wrong.
05:41But also, who cares?
05:42Right?
05:43But we can conform
05:44in negative ways as well.
05:46You know, a classic example
05:47is staying silent
05:48when you see something bad happening.
05:50Silence can be conformity too.
05:53And we see this all the time
05:54on public transport
05:55and public places
05:56where, and I'm sure
05:57lots of people
05:58have had the experience
05:59where you see something
06:00but you don't actually
06:01step in and intervene.
06:02I think of times
06:03that I've seen something
06:04like a little, you know,
06:05where you're keeping an eye
06:06looks a little bit off
06:07but you're also like,
06:08mate, I'm not the strongest person
06:10on this train.
06:11Mm-hmm.
06:12Have you ever looked around
06:13and seen all the big guys
06:14that are still sitting down?
06:15Yeah.
06:16They haven't intervened as well.
06:17Um, very unimpressed by this.
06:22Ash proved we'll follow the crowd
06:24even when the answer's
06:25obviously wrong.
06:26Online, the crowd just got bigger
06:29and way more persuasive.
06:30With more, here's Lou Wall.
06:32It's no secret humans love to conform.
06:35I love it.
06:36Yeah, I love it.
06:37Yeah, no, I don't mind it myself.
06:39Back in the analogue days,
06:40it was all about getting the same haircut
06:42as everyone else
06:43or pretending to love that one show
06:45we were all talking about.
06:46How good was Friends last night?
06:48Stop.
06:49So good.
06:50Your hair looks great.
06:51Your hair looks great.
06:53Now, conformity has had a digital glow up.
06:56Literally, it's all like, share, repeat algorithms.
06:59Love it when we copy each other.
07:00It keeps us trending.
07:01Even for a hot minute.
07:03Like and subscribe, guys.
07:04Who are you talking to?
07:05You know, everyone.
07:08Whether it is swallowing a spoonful of cinnamon.
07:12Pouring an ice bucket over our head.
07:16Or eating a Tide Pod.
07:18Wellness has gone too far.
07:20No!
07:21You know what happened last time.
07:23They went viral.
07:24And they went to hospital.
07:26Social media has embraced our desire to conform
07:29and amplified it.
07:30It's so easy to get caught up.
07:32One post and boom.
07:34Everyone's doing it.
07:35Some of us is still paying for it.
07:37Water.
07:38I need water.
07:39But while we're all still busy planking and flossing,
07:42social media algorithms are busy feeding us the next online craze.
07:46It's like an online applause track.
07:48It keeps us coming back for more.
07:49And we do.
07:50Thank you at p slash underscore 90 99.
07:54We're all hardwired to fit in and find our community.
07:57Whether that's watching friends or sucking down some cinnamon.
08:01Online conformity is just the new frontier.
08:04Anyone for Kool-Aid?
08:05No.
08:06No.
08:07No.
08:08Being a part of something bigger than yourself feels nice.
08:14But on the spectrum from a horse riding club to a club that sells horse,
08:19when does your squad become a gang?
08:21Australians are fascinated by a criminal culture.
08:24From the moment Ned Kelly put a bucket on his head,
08:26criminal cliques, gangs and underworld associations have dominated our headlines
08:31and even kept whole TV networks afloat.
08:35In the suburbs of 70s Melbourne, one such group rose to prominence.
08:39A gang so menacing, so ominous, the very sight of them struck fear into the public's heart.
08:49OK, sorry, we should have given you a warning before showing you that.
08:53The Sharpies, named after their signature Sharp outfits,
08:56and I'd imagine the type of pain those jeans caused them,
08:59were a teenage subculture that exploded onto the streets of Melbourne.
09:03Predating punk, they were a uniquely Aussie movement
09:06and the conformity was strong with their own dance, tattoos and a very precise uniform.
09:11Another important marker of the Sharps, the hair.
09:15Who cut your hair?
09:16Grant.
09:17Who cut your hair?
09:18Grant.
09:19Who cut your hair?
09:20Grant.
09:21Grant did not cut my hair.
09:24The Sharpies were a reaction to the suburban status quo.
09:28Proudly working class, they rejected the blonde surfies, the carefree hippies
09:32and the soft vibes of their mortal enemies, the mods.
09:35Were the Sharpies a gang though?
09:37The media sure thought so.
09:39At most of the discotheques and dancers, there's the danger of brawls between the Sharpies and the mods.
09:44How vicious do these fights get?
09:46They kick.
09:47When a chap goes to the ground, he can be knocked out and they'll still kick.
09:50There's been already one killed, he was killed that way.
09:52He was kicked after he went to the ground.
09:54The Sharpies didn't start as a gang, they were a movement.
09:57So how did they become violent?
09:59Their version of events is that their violence was simply retaliatory.
10:02So they were actually the subject of violence themselves and their violence was just in response to that.
10:07And they were fighting over things like access to public spaces.
10:10So like the clocks at Flinders Street, they were fighting over who could have access to that space.
10:14What?
10:15It's just so...
10:19I love stuff about gangs and this does not sound like gang.
10:24I grew up in Hoppers Crossing, like mates were in gangs and I never heard any of this chat.
10:30What gangs are in your area?
10:31Well there was one in Hoppers Crossing called the HCB Boys.
10:35Hoppers Crossing Boys.
10:37That's original?
10:38They were a little bit dangerous, but that's more like machetes and guns and less...
10:42And Grant cut my hair.
10:47Watch out!
10:49It was a bit of a moral panic, to be honest.
10:51So a moral panic is this exaggerated fear, usually driven by the media and to some extent public figures,
10:57around a particular group or thing being seen as a threat to society and threat to societal values.
11:02And we see moral panics all the time.
11:03If you go back 20 years, hoodies.
11:06There was moral panic around hoodies.
11:07And some shopping centres even banned the wearing of hoodies in their shopping centre.
11:10Yeah, didn't have the courage to ban odies though, did they?
11:13LAUGHTER
11:15Danielle, why do people feel compelled to join groups like these?
11:19You know, these types of groups really created this space where people who were marginalised
11:23could feel like they had a place where they belonged.
11:26They created a sense of community that people felt like they could belong to.
11:29The irony with these groups is that they were rebelling against societal norms only to join a group that created norms that they all had to conform to anyway.
11:41So even when we're rebelling, we're conforming.
11:43Yeah. And conformity to group standards leads to some of the most serious crime that we know about.
11:48I mean, think about the mafia and conformity.
11:51That's like a classic example of Ash's conformity studies, but on crack.
11:55You think about the characteristics of the mafia, a really strong sense of group identity.
12:00They have these really strict codes that all members have to conform to unanimously.
12:05And you think about the implications of non-conformity for that group.
12:10In the Ash study, a lot of people conformed and the implications were feeling socially isolated and feeling socially embarrassed.
12:17Like the implications for non-conformity in groups like the mafia are way more severe.
12:23Being ostracised from your family, violence and sometimes even death.
12:28Claire, I don't know why. I wonder that you might have been part of a gang or a group.
12:33I mean, I feel like comedy's a bit of a gang, don't you think?
12:37Because think of how worried your friends and family were when you started.
12:42But when the money starts to roll in, they stop asking questions.
12:47It's time for our experiment of the week.
12:51They say looking up is contagious.
12:56One glance at the sky and suddenly you're worried you've missed a shooting star,
13:00a falling air conditioner or a billionaire re-entering the atmosphere.
13:03So we thought, what happens if we start the crowd?
13:08We sent three Crime Night actors out to look up at absolutely nothing.
13:13Will anyone else follow suit? Let's find out.
13:33If you're hearing a bit of a rumble in the room, it might be because some of you are starting to recognise our three friends.
13:57We planted them in the foyer earlier tonight just to see if anyone would follow their lead.
14:04It didn't take long before a few of you started to look up.
14:09And shortly after, the conformity became contagious.
14:15The conformity became contagious.
14:26Oh my God!
14:28Danielle, did this audience experiment confirm what we already know?
14:32This is based off of a classic experiment called the street corner experiment.
14:36It's a classic study in conformity in showing that we definitely follow the crowd and the size of the crowd matters.
14:44David, do we follow or mimic any old person or...?
14:48No, no. So in another street level study, researchers looked at who people follow jaywalking.
14:53So, and what they found, it's quite interesting, what they found is that people who appeared to be of higher status,
14:58if a guy's wearing a suit and tie for example, if they jaywalked first, other people were more likely to jaywalk following them
15:04than if they were a person wearing normal street clothes.
15:06Do you think that's because someone in a suit you might look at as more risk averse?
15:09You think they're not someone that's just going to walk out and have no idea what's going on?
15:13They're in a suit.
15:14I've got to follow you now, wherever.
15:16What, do you want me to buy Bitcoin?
15:18No, alright.
15:20You've got a nice jacket on.
15:21I think you've proved the experiment.
15:23That was our experiment of the week.
15:24Twelve strangers, one courtroom and a decision that could change someone's life forever.
15:33That's the power vested to a jury.
15:36Juries bring to a case their personal perspectives and their varying experiences of life,
15:40but basically they're just a potluck of people.
15:43Everyone brings something to the table and not all of it agrees with you.
15:45But when you ask strangers to reach a verdict, the pressure to go along with the group increases.
15:55And worryingly, even in a jury room, the urge to fit in can shape the outcome.
16:00Typically, juries are expected to reach a unanimous decision.
16:03In 19th century England, those who couldn't were often denied food and heat
16:08and sometimes even paraded around in a wagon until they came to a verdict.
16:11I'm glad you all think that's hilarious.
16:17Starved, frozen and wheeled through London, the original 19th century Contiki tour.
16:26In Australia, the law forbids jurors from speaking out about their experiences,
16:31so we don't get to see what happens behind closed doors.
16:34But the SBS series, The Jury, Death on the Staircase, offers a rare glimpse.
16:38The program recreated a real-life manslaughter case using the original evidence and arguments presented in court,
16:45but with a mock jury made up of everyday Australians that we could observe.
16:49It might only be a social experiment, but the tension? Very real.
16:53All the jurors, apart from Craig, want to deliver a verdict of not guilty.
16:58Can they convince him to change his mind?
17:00Previously you said, I'm highly unlikely to change my mind, but you didn't say impossible.
17:06So what would cause you to have doubt?
17:09Nothing.
17:11So it's impossible?
17:12The only reason I change my mind is I want to go home.
17:14One juror held out, but in the end it wasn't the evidence that changed his mind,
17:18it was the pressure he felt to agree with the group.
17:19Okay, use the wind, he's guilty, let's go home.
17:23I said use the wind, he's guilty, let's go.
17:27Not guilty, sorry.
17:29I'm just angry at myself, because I caved.
17:31Now yeah, I felt like I've let a criminal go free.
17:34Yeah, absolutely.
17:36Now that was a recreation, and a mock case, but he still feels the effect of what he's done.
17:39He didn't stick to his own beliefs.
17:42Danielle, how often do juries feel pressure to reach a verdict?
17:46It's impossible to say, because we're not allowed to talk to jurors, the law prohibits that.
17:51But there was one study done in Western Australia, and the study showed that 21% of jurors, real jurors,
17:58who participated on juries, talked about the fact that they did feel pressure to come to a particular decision.
18:03And something like three-quarters of them said that they experienced pressure from other jurors.
18:10There are quite a few studies done, particularly in the US, with mock juries,
18:14and they show that 40% of jurors reported that they felt pressure to vote against their conscience
18:21just so that they could come to a unanimous verdict.
18:24Why can't we just have, why can't we just go with the majority rule?
18:27There's 12 people in a jury, why not, if there's just 7 that agree, we can go with that?
18:30I think unanimity, like when you have 12 people on a jury who unanimously agree on a verdict,
18:37it gives people greater confidence in the verdict that's delivered.
18:40Right, so if somebody's going to get like 10 years in prison, if 12 people say they're guilty,
18:46it feels a bit icky if they get 10 years in prison because 7 people said they were guilty.
18:51Is that what you're saying?
18:52Exactly. I think people have greater confidence, right?
18:54They say, hey, 12 out of 12 people, 12 people from completely different backgrounds have sat in a room,
19:00have deliberated the facts of the case and have come to a unanimous verdict.
19:05I think people feel much more confident in that verdict.
19:08Maybe they'd feel even better if they knew those people had been carried around in a car.
19:13Deprived lunch sandwiches.
19:15How do you deal with the Craig problem?
19:18So we get around a couple of ways.
19:20So one is the directions that the judge gives a jury.
19:23So making that clear about what they have to deliberate and how.
19:26But the other thing is most jurists, in fact all Australian jurisdictions now,
19:30have the ability to go for majority judgements rather than unanimous.
19:34In a majority judgement there's sort of room for dissenters, like one or two dissenters.
19:38But there's rules around this.
19:39So for example, in New South Wales, if a jury's deliberated for at least eight hours
19:45and the judge is satisfied that they can't reach a unanimous verdict,
19:49they can actually allow a majority verdict.
19:52So one or two people to dissent.
19:54But still for charges of murder and treason, you still require that unanimous verdict.
19:59You could go to jail because 12 people just got tired.
20:02Some of these juries deliberate for weeks.
20:04And they come back every day into that jury room to continue going through the evidence
20:09and discussing and that sort of thing.
20:11So it's not a quick process.
20:13If you think about the practicalities of it, like digging your heels in and being like,
20:17no, let's keep debating this because I don't agree with you guys.
20:20Like practically, like this takes so much time out of your real life.
20:24How many people would do that?
20:26But I'm doing it for my fellow citizens.
20:28Yeah, that's right.
20:30Karen and I are going to start a club.
20:31It's a beautiful thing to do.
20:32A little break from your everyday life.
20:34Opportunity to serve your community.
20:36Free horse and carriage ride.
20:38What's not to love?
20:40Hands up if you've ever been asked for jury duty.
20:43Oh, wow.
20:45Oh my goodness, that's so many people.
20:47And who actually got to go?
20:49Oh, you can't say.
20:51Almost got you.
20:53We're actually the police.
20:55Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is not conform.
21:02Especially when you know something is wrong.
21:04Remember cigarettes?
21:05Yep.
21:11There was a time when they were practically part of the food pyramid.
21:14It wasn't just common.
21:16It was cool.
21:17Parents smoked.
21:18Teachers smoked.
21:19Doctors smoked.
21:20We knew they were bad for us, but we also knew we could quit any time.
21:24They weren't addictive.
21:25Just ask seven CEOs from the world's biggest tobacco companies in 1994.
21:30I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
21:33I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
21:36And I too believe that nicotine is not addictive.
21:40Seven CEOs, if you ask me, the worst of the 12 days of Christmas.
21:43In front of the world, they denied the truth.
21:51Nicotine was dangerous and addictive.
21:54But it was also making them buckets of cash.
21:56It felt like the glory days of dart punching would never end
21:59until one of their own went rogue.
22:01This is whistleblower Jeffrey Weigand.
22:03Weigand was a scientist and an executive inside one of those very tobacco companies.
22:08He knew the truth, that he was working in a business built on addiction.
22:10Nicotine was not addictive.
22:13Cigarettes were not a health threat.
22:15White was not white.
22:17And I was living a lie.
22:19When he realised how far they were willing to go to keep people hooked on nicotine,
22:22Weigand gave interviews and testified in court.
22:25Like so many whistleblowers, telling the truth came at a huge personal cost.
22:29Big tobacco went for Weigand.
22:31Hard.
22:32He was fired, surveilled, smeared, sued, and his family were threatened.
22:36I was not protected by any whistleblower statute.
22:38And I had no recourse except the truth.
22:41Many have gone through the hellish, life-changing experience like mine.
22:46Whistleblowers like Weigand are responsible for detecting over 40% of corporate fraud in the US.
22:52That's more than audits and regulators combined.
22:55Weigand's evidence helped trigger one of the biggest legal settlements in history,
22:59and millions of people quit smoking.
23:00One person, swimming against the tide of conformity.
23:04Geoffrey Weigand was the straw that broke Camel's back.
23:11And for those of you under 30, Camel is a brand of cigarette.
23:13And for those under 20, cigarettes are a kind of bank.
23:23David, how important is whistleblowing?
23:27Well, whistleblowing and whistleblowers are incredibly important.
23:30Quite often, the only reason that wrongdoing comes to our attention is because of whistleblowers.
23:34But these people go out on a massive limb.
23:37Quite often, they're breaching non-disclosure agreements, breaching company policies.
23:41Weigand ended up getting sued by his employer because he breached a confidentiality agreement.
23:46So there's a whole lot of obstacles putting people's way to whistleblow.
23:50In Australia, it's a bit cultural as well, but we don't dob.
23:53Even from little kids, we're taught not to dob.
23:56And whistleblowing is still sort of thought about in terms of being dobbing.
23:59But there's a huge difference between that kind of dobbing idea in a playground and this monumental thing you might do to literally change the course of history when it comes to something like cigarettes.
24:10Yeah, absolutely, but it's so ingrained from so young that you just don't tell.
24:14Now, some organisations try and overcome this, so they'll create, like, whistleblower hotlines, where, you know, it might be like a 1-800 number, you can call them.
24:21Come on. No-one's fallen for that.
24:23Let's go straight to HR.
24:26How's it?
24:27You hope not.
24:28Yeah.
24:29But there are some strategies put in place to try and overcome it.
24:32But there's still massive obstacles to people actually whistleblowing.
24:36Now, one of them is, of course, that people sometimes lose their careers.
24:40In some industries, if you whistleblow, you'll never work in that industry again.
24:44And that's why in the US, whistleblowers are actually paid.
24:47So whistleblowers will get between 10 and 30 percent of the amount recovered paid to them.
24:52So the Securities and Exchange Commission in the US, up to about 2023, had paid out almost $2 billion to whistleblowers.
25:01I need a job in a dodgy big American company.
25:03Danielle, are some people more likely to be whistleblowers than others?
25:09There are some characteristics that define whistleblowers.
25:12High or strong moral conviction and moral courage, so an unwillingness to compromise their moral principles.
25:20High levels of self-efficacy and what we call internal locus of control, which pretty much just means that there is a high likelihood in their belief that their actions will result in an outcome.
25:31And I think the last one, which is my favorite, is that they tend to be low to moderate on what we call in psychology agreeableness, which means that they're willing to be disliked.
25:41They have no issues challenging people, even if it means that it's going to result in conflict.
25:47And that's what ASH's conformity studies show, right?
25:49That's one of the reasons why they're so special is that one of the powerful results from those studies is that it only takes one person to dissent, one person to refuse to conform to change the tide for all the people that come after.
26:03We know this takes an incredible toll on people. So it's not just financial, it's also personal.
26:09So if you think about the woman who was one of the main whistleblowers in the Robodeck case, you know, a decade later, she's still talking about the toll that's taken on her in terms of watching herself lose her career, but then also the personal toll on her private life.
26:23If we see injustice occurring, David, Danielle, how can we give ourselves the confidence to actually speak up?
26:30We need to talk to other people. Like, if you're embedded in an organization and in a culture where something's wrong and everyone's doing it, if you're at least having that conversation with friends about, hey, this doesn't feel right, what do you think?
26:42You're sort of building that social support around yourself to actually go, you know, I'm right. This is wrong and I'm going to blow the whistle.
26:48But how many people actually do find that kind of, you know, moral courage, if that's what you want to call it? And I mean, courage, full stop.
26:55Yeah, courage, full stop. I agree. I think that it's rare. I think that the thing that research shows is that the majority of people are perfectly happy not to intervene when they see something going wrong.
27:06But there is a minority of people, you can think of them as superheroes, who will intervene regardless of the context and regardless of the risk that it poses to them and their personal safety.
27:18Claire, what would you want to blow the whistle on?
27:22I mean, I don't like the repercussions of this, but all right.
27:26But making TV is really easy and we get paid too much.
27:33They even sent a taxi for me!
27:39You'd have to say, maybe not on ABC and SBS.
27:44Nick, what do you want to blow the whistle on?
27:46I think blokes that play golf just don't like their family.
27:56It's a waste of time and it sucks.
27:59And I'm putting an end to it.
28:01Please thank our guests Claire Hooper and Nick Cody.
28:03And applause to our resident experts, Professor Danielle Reynold and Dr David Bartlett.
28:17This week on Crimelight we found that whether it's fitting in or staying quiet, conformity can lead to everything from fraud to bad verdicts to regrettable haircuts.
28:26It's powerful, no doubt.
28:28But is it more powerful than speaking up?
28:30Hard to say.
28:32I'll probably wait and see what everyone else thinks.
28:34I'm Julia Zemiro, goodnight.
28:35APPLAUSE
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