- 1 year ago
In many ways, the more we learn, the worse it gets. And we're beginning to understand that many of those on this list had already been rejected for asylum status in the United Kingdom.We learn more about the super injunction. We're even told we don't yet know everything about this situation. And the question that I've been asked, you know, by friends who aren't necessarily directly involved in everyday politics is: Well, if we haven't been told the truth about this, how many other things are being withheld from us?And that really gets to the heart of the real problem here: a continuing breakdown of trust in government, in Parliament, in our whole democratic system.I was quite shocked also to hear that both in the Commons and the Lords, the respective Speakers have been told—have been briefed on this—to basically stop any MP or member of the House of Lords using parliamentary privilege.Most of the names on that 20,000-person list would not have been eligible in any way at all for this resettlement scheme. And there were some of us back in 2021 who were urging caution, worried about whether there'd be some very, very bad people who'd creep under the net. Potential terrorists. Also worried culturally about what it would mean for so many people to come from that country to this.So the big question is: What should happen next?
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00:00Good evening. Well, 24 hours on, in many ways, the more we learn, the worse it gets.
00:04We're beginning to understand that many of those on this list had already been rejected
00:09for asylum status in the United Kingdom. We learn more about the super injunction. We're even told
00:15we don't yet know everything about this situation. And the question that I've been asked, you know,
00:22by friends who aren't necessarily directly involved in everyday politics is, well, if we haven't been
00:27told the truth about this, how many other things are being withheld from us? And that really gets
00:32to the heart of the real problem here, a continuing breakdown of trust in government, in parliament,
00:40in our whole democratic system. And I was quite shocked also to hear that both in the Commons
00:45and the Lords, the respective speakers have been told, have been briefed on this, to basically stop
00:50any MP or member of the House of Lords using parliamentary privilege. But I thought the
00:56interview that was done earlier on today with Defence Secretary John Healy with Sky News
01:01said more than almost anything else today.
01:05It's feasible, isn't it, that some of the people on that leaked list were applying to come here
01:10when perhaps they hadn't done anything to support British forces or fight against the Taliban.
01:17Now their names are on that list and at some sort of a risk. Does that give them automatic
01:22right to then come here and claim asylum?
01:26No, it's not just feasible. Most of those names on the list were people who didn't work alongside
01:33our forces, didn't serve with our forces and there was never the plan, never the plan to bring
01:40everyone in on that data set into this country and nor should we.
01:45Deming, absolutely deming. Most of the names on that 20,000 person list would not have been eligible
01:53in any way at all for this resettlement scheme. And there were some of us back in 2021 who were urging
02:00caution, worried about whether there'd be some very, very bad people who'd creep under the net,
02:06potential terrorists, also worried culturally about what it would mean for so many people
02:11to come from that country to this. So the big question is what should happen next?
02:17Love to get your thoughts at home. Please tweet hashtag Farage on GB News or email Farage at
02:23GBNews.com. I'm joined in the studio by Rob Bates, Research Director at the Centre for Migration
02:29Control. I'm joined by Baroness Diane Hayter, Labour peer and former Labour deputy leader of the House of Lords
02:35and regular panellists, Kwasi Kwarteng, former Chancellor of the Exchequer. And Rob, one of those areas that I was
02:44concerned about in 2021 but didn't really have the full facts were attitudes towards women. And I remember
02:53one of the arguments in 2001 for going to war in Afghanistan was to liberate women, which doesn't
02:59appear to have happened. I know there's a graph that we're going to put up, but just give us the
03:05statistics for Afghans that have settled in this country, about 40,000 of them so far, and what
03:11that's meant for women in Britain.
03:13Yeah, so Afghanistan, those Afghani nationals that have arrived in the UK over recent years, those that have
03:19not yet obtained British citizenship. If you look at the graph on your screen, you'll see that they are
03:23overwhelmingly over-represented in the conviction rates for sexual offences. That's your rapes, your
03:29sexual assaults, your gropings, all those kind of things that are effectively making life, especially
03:34in the big cities and the big towns, for women and girls in this country a lot worse. They are 22 times
03:40more likely than Brits to be convicted.
03:42Let's just slow down. Let's just repeat that statistic. Let's all just get a hold of that.
03:47It is a staggering one. Afghani nationals have a conviction rate for sexual offences that is 22
03:53times higher than the British population, those with British nationality. That's not including
03:59those that, of course, Afghanistani nationals that have subsequently obtained British citizenship
04:04as well. But it's not just the sexual offences as well. It's drugs, which is 11 times higher.
04:09It's violent offences, which is six times higher. It's robbery, which is 11 times higher.
04:13It's theft, which is four times higher. It's weapon possession, which is six times higher.
04:17As well. So there is a whole host of cultural problems that do emerge when you see individuals
04:22from backgrounds that are perhaps less culturally compatible with Britain coming in in large
04:28numbers. And I think the fact that we have seen tens of thousands of individuals smuggled
04:31into the country without the British population even being given the decency of being told about
04:36this is frankly a scandal.
04:37And of course, Afghans making up one of the largest proportions of people crossing the English
04:43Channel on small boats on top of this resettlement scheme.
04:46Those facts and figures that you just gave, we couldn't have even had this debate five
04:51years ago, could we?
04:52No, no. And this was something that the British population were just not given. This is something
04:56that politicians were concealing. They were refusing to give out. It was something that
04:59the Ministry of Justice was very reluctant to actually give to our think tanks themselves.
05:04So it was something that I think they've kind of been besotted with this idea that multiculturalism
05:08and mass migration and bringing in individuals from every corner of life, whatever the culture
05:13of that country might be, is such a universal good that this data is not something that the British
05:17population actually need to know. And I think what we've seen with this recent situation
05:20as well as these concerns about community tensions and the British population being agitated
05:25by 24,000 Afghan individuals being brought into the country is that we're being mollycoddled
05:30and individuals in government in Whitehall are frankly lying to the British population because
05:35they don't want us to know why the changes that are happening to our community are taking place,
05:38why we're seeing spikes in crimes, especially sexual violence crimes, why we're seeing the economy
05:43tanking as well. It's because the British government have signed up hook, line and sinker
05:48for this narrative of mass migration, individuals from certain countries being brought in being
05:52a universal good, and they're not prepared to countenance that it perhaps isn't.
05:55Kwasi, just how much damage did your government do to this country?
06:00I think the problem is wider than that.
06:03Well, let's deal with this one to begin with, shall we?
06:05No, no, it's true, but there's an administrative failure. I mean, you're quite right to say that
06:08successive governments, our government, were poor on this issue.
06:13But I don't think people were deceived because we wanted to let all these people in.
06:17I think the problem was, you've seen administrative cock-ups, if I can put it that way.
06:22Of a gigantic proportion?
06:23Of a huge proportion. And with this particular incidence, I mean, I just ran some figures.
06:2820,000 people equates to 7 billion. That's 350,000.
06:31Per person?
06:32Per person. I didn't understand.
06:33Where does that sound come from?
06:35I mean, unless you're giving them, I don't know, a two-bedroom flat in Leesden or wherever
06:39it might be. I don't see how you get to those figures. So that really concerns me.
06:44I think the cover-up also is very disappointing because, I mean, I wasn't part of that.
06:49I mean, I was part of the administration, but I didn't have oversight on that.
06:53Disappointing or scandalous?
06:55Well, you can use whatever adjective you want, but it's a real problem if you're spending
07:00350,000 per person. And then when it happens, you're essentially saying, we're not going
07:05to tell the people the truth.
07:06Yeah.
07:07I think that's a real breakdown.
07:08And I mentioned in my little talk-in about a sort of breakdown of trust in government,
07:12parliament, you know, what else haven't we been told? It's quite serious, really, isn't it?
07:16Yeah, it is. I mean, the cover-up really, as someone who's been in government, who's
07:19been an MP, the cover-up really concerned me. Because actually, that's, as Rob was saying,
07:25that's essentially trying to deceive. That's where the deception is. Yeah. When you know
07:29what's happened, there's been a complete breakdown.
07:31No, it's awful. It's awful.
07:33Yeah, you're trying to cover it up. It's awful.
07:34And also, it was foolish, because at some point, the truth will get out.
07:37It always does. Diane, welcome to the programme. We were chatting in the green room before we
07:43came on air, and you were saying how much tougher life is for young girls today than it
07:47was when you grow up. When you hear those statistics that Rob's just given us, cold, hard,
07:53frightening statistics, don't we need to be just an awful lot more careful about who comes
07:59to our country?
07:59Well, there's two things I'd say. One is, of course, that the particular people coming
08:03in are of a particular age. And I don't think your figures are actually done by age.
08:09They are adjusted. Age-adjusted.
08:10Because, you know, it is young men who commit crimes. Sorry about that, men.
08:14Sure.
08:14But actually, in general.
08:16Yes, but...
08:17But the other issue, and as a woman, I will take no lessons from anyone about the, you know,
08:22the importance of dealing with violence against... And it isn't just violence, it's disrespect.
08:27It's the whole thing that goes with it. You know, I'll take no lessons from anyone.
08:31But I would say this. Be careful what you say, because that falling in trust...
08:37We've just done some really interesting polling across Australia, Germany, America,
08:41around here. And actually, there's that fall-off of trust of politicians everywhere.
08:46Sure.
08:46You're not alone.
08:47No, I appreciate that.
08:48But you've made me feel so much better.
08:51And therefore, I think we need to be slightly careful that we don't say, well, this breakdown
08:57of trust is all about a particular group of our migrants coming in.
09:01So be careful what we say.
09:01It's part of a wider picture.
09:02It's a wider picture, and it's a wider picture because life, as we were saying outside,
09:07is very complicated. You know, I was just looking at some figures about migration.
09:11That in 1951, there were about 2.1 million migrants.
09:18We're now looking at about 45 million migrants.
09:21That's global.
09:22That's the global...
09:23That's the global figure.
09:24Yeah.
09:24But it is about, therefore, we have to, I think, rethink how we define asylum...
09:29But isn't the truth, Diane...
09:29...asylum about how we...
09:31But isn't the truth, Diane, I mean, you talked about respect, all right?
09:33And I completely, all of us completely understand what you're saying.
09:35But the fact is that in Afghanistan, women are not treated with respect.
09:38And, therefore, if you take males from Afghanistan, they are going to have, like it or not,
09:44they're going to have different attitudes.
09:46And, therefore, you know, first of all, there are Afghans to whom we owe a duty to bring them here.
09:52They fought with us or they protected us.
09:54Agreed.
09:55And for that group coming in, you know, we really have to bring them in.
09:59I take the point about the amount of money.
10:01I cannot believe it.
10:02But we do have to...
10:03I don't understand that.
10:03I know.
10:04But we do have to make sure that we help them assimilate because they are moving different
10:08culture, a different culture about respect for older people as well.
10:12I mean, some of them could teach some of our youngsters a lesson or two about respect for older...
10:16Well, I'm not sure about that.
10:19But what I'm saying is that the group that we absolutely owe this...
10:22I think it's a duty to do is we have to make sure that we help them assimilate into this country.
10:28If we owe this debt, is there not perhaps a better way in which to deliver that?
10:32As you say, there is a cultural difference that we have to help them bridge.
10:35And we spend an extraordinary amount of money on these integration schemes.
10:38Is there not an argument to be made that they are perhaps better served by using our
10:42asylum budget to give them asylum in a country, a third country closer to their country of
10:46origin?
10:47That may well be right.
10:48But the most shocking thing of all of this is John Healy's statement that I played at the
10:53start of this show, that most of the people on that list did not help us.
10:57On the list, not for people who came in.
10:59That was why it took a lot to go through the list, because the list was people who applied.
11:05And obviously, a number of people would have applied because they want to get out of Afghanistan
11:09because they don't like it.
11:10But the figure...
11:11It didn't qualify.
11:12But they still help.
11:13But no, that's the people on the list, not the people we took in.
11:18Because what happens, what your government did, quite rightly, was to look at the people
11:22that applied and then had to do two checks on them.
11:24One was, did they really work for us and for either our armed forces or our embassy or whatever
11:31there?
11:32And then secondly, they had to do two checks.
11:33But my understanding of this is that actually two-thirds of the 20,000 were rejected as asylum
11:41seekers.
11:41That's the problem.
11:42Yeah.
11:42In that we looked through the people and we only said, OK, a third of them...
11:46And what we don't know, what we don't actually know, is how careful we've been about the
11:50first 7,000 from that list.
11:51That's right.
11:52And there's no way that 7,000 Afghans acted as interpreters and gave us that level.
11:57Many hundreds, I would absolutely agree.
11:59But it was their families as well.
12:01And quite rightly, you don't expect just if it was a man who was an interpreter to leave
12:06his family behind.
12:07So we're not talking about 7,000 individuals who necessarily work for us, but them and their
12:11families.
12:12And you've got to get their families out.
12:13The threats to their families, and again, particularly to their women folk, is very high.
12:18We're getting to the heart of it.
12:20It's been an administrative bulls-up.
12:22I mean, everyone is seeing that, and that's pretty clear.
12:25And then the bit that I find baffling is the cost.
12:29No, I agree.
12:30Final word of Rob on this.
12:32Well, I was just going to say, I think we also need to bear in mind the chain migration
12:35implications of this.
12:36I think the cost is attributable over a certain period of time.
12:39I mean, it is absolutely extraordinary.
12:41I think the Home Office released figures recently on just the sheer amount that is given to local
12:45authorities per resettled individual, and it is absolutely eye-watering.
12:48I don't know where that money goes.
12:50So I think our asylum system has effectively been one that's got carried away with these
12:54human rights ideas and these ideas of justice, whatever that means.
12:58And we need to realise that probably the best way to actually focus it going forward is
13:01to have one that looks to resettle those individuals in genuine need, much closer to their country
13:05of origin, because I think for cultural reasons, I think the British population are sort of
13:12reaching the point where they think there's communities that seem to be our recognition.
13:14It's a strong point.
13:15All right, I'm going to draw stumps on this.
13:17This, by the way, this debate doesn't end here at 17 minutes past seven on GB News.
13:21This will go on for months, I promise you.
13:23Now, I have a statement from the MOD.
13:25The MOD has made it clear that the rejection is nothing to do with alleged criminal behaviour,
13:30as is being reported in some publications.
13:33Well, there we are.
13:33That clears it all up, doesn't it?