00:00With That's So True, like, that was the first song I've had that, like, did what it did.
00:04Every time I sat down to try to write something, I felt, like, a little sick, kind of.
00:11And I think because I was thinking about, like, how do I do something that will, like,
00:17but I actually think, like, the way that I want to beat it isn't, like, a numbers game.
00:21It's, like, how do I make something that makes me feel passionate, I suppose.
00:30Having been in Taylor's orbit, and she is, like, the most well-known artist there is,
00:45it really helps put everything into perspective where it's, like, I don't really have it that bad
00:51in terms of the invasion of privacy, and, like, I feel like I've learned a lot from her, obviously.
01:00But one of the things that I've felt lucky to observe is, like, how extreme it can be,
01:05because I think it helps right-size my own shit.
01:09I think having done the ERAs tour and seeing the largest crowds in the world,
01:16it's kind of like this lovely exposure therapy where anything smaller than that
01:21actually does feel kind of comforting.
01:23Despite the fact that, of course, playing my own arena tour felt like a different planet
01:29to me entirely, I do think there felt, like, some kind of closeness, even, between me and
01:34the person in the last row.
01:36It was just the best time, I don't know.
01:39It was really fun.
01:41I feel like my journaling habit is something that's forever grounding for me, regardless
01:52of where I am, and any kind of writing does that for me.
01:55It kind of just, like, switches my brain into this, like, state where I could be anywhere,
02:00and I appreciate that.
02:01On the road with touring, like, even the 45 minutes where I'm doing my own makeup,
02:07like, there's something that is very silent, and it feels like some kind of, like, little
02:11meditation period where my brain turns off, and I'm not, like, performing socially or literally.
02:17I think that hateful discourse online can't get under your skin too much if you're not engaging
02:38with it.
02:39A lot of how I feel at this point in my life in general about public perception or otherwise,
02:45it's just, like, feels like an important moment to try to protect your inner peace,
02:50and I feel like any time that I've slipped into paying too much attention to that, it's, like,
02:57if I'm spending my days, like, at that, it's not, it's not good for me as a person.
03:04It's not good for the art that I want to make.
03:07It's boring as hell.
03:08To be honest, like, being off of social media recently has really helped me get out of the
03:15headspace of, like, just, like, numbers period.
03:19With That's So True, like, that was the first song I've had that, like, did what it did,
03:23and while I've never been somebody that, like, has felt that through the phone necessarily
03:28before, it was, like, there are more people telling you what's going on charts-wise or radio-wise
03:33or, like, streaming numbers, whatever, it's, like, that can start to, like, be internalized,
03:40and I actually really hate how that feels.
03:43Over the holiday, like, end of the year into the beginning of this year,
03:48every time I sat down to try to write something, I felt, like, a little sick, kind of,
03:55and I think because I was thinking about, like, how do I do something that will, like, beat it,
04:02but I actually think, like, the way that I want to beat it isn't, like, a numbers game.
04:07It's, like, how do I make something that makes me feel passionate as well as you know.
04:22Ella, Lord, I've known her for quite a while now, and she happens to do this,
04:29but is just one of my favorite people to lean on, period, because she's, like, 800 years old inside,
04:35and whenever we're together, I feel my nervous system regulate differently.
04:40It's comforting that there are people like her that exist where, like, you know that that's a trusted
04:47person who you could always lean on.
04:50Her career arc is also one that I've looked up to forever, so, yeah, such a gift to be able to
04:57ask her questions. I think, um, almost in, like, pop culture, the impact that both Sabrina and
05:03Chapel have had on the industry has been so exciting to watch, and I think, forget being an
05:09artist and somebody that puts music out as well. It's, like, I think as a young person, there's
05:14something so liberating about both their catalogs of music and the way that they're choosing to run
05:20their businesses. It, like, is so obviously them through and through that, like, I find that to be
05:27deeply inspiring. I'm a mega fan of both of theirs, and, um, yeah, just constantly kind of, like, screaming
05:34my head off for them.
05:38I adore her with my whole heart forever and ever. She's, I mean, like, gave me such a shot
05:45opening for her on the Sour Tour, and I, when she started putting music out again, that was just,
05:53like, such an exciting voice to hear, and she's just lovely beyond measure, so she's somebody who
06:01I feel really lucky to know, and it's, like, been a few years now, which feels crazy, but to champion
06:09her forever is my plan. Yeah, she's the sweetest. I can't wait to watch her Glossomery set. I mean,
06:15all the festivals this summer, I'm just, like, so stoked. It's gonna be so fun.
06:24I was an introverted kid. Like, I was, like, writer kid, you know what I mean? Like, that was just
06:30my impulse. Really, like, the songs that I would hear playing in the house or on the drive to school,
06:37and that was the Joni Mitchell obsession origin, like, really hearing her voice forever, and I
06:44think almost having that baked into these big feelings that, like, then when I grew up more
06:50and was able to actually, like, understand her lyrics, it just hit 10 times harder, but also
06:55there's that, like, deep tie in knowing that my mom has loved her music forever. It just, like,
06:59feels emotional in that way.
07:07I've never had the moment, like, I can see this being my entire life forever. It was just, like,
07:11I knew that no matter what I would do for my entire life, like, writing was always going to be
07:15something that I would spend my free time, like, dedicated to, because it was what made me feel
07:20like I could, like, bear everything. And when I started using Instagram as this, like, very impulsive,
07:29almost diary to upload snippets of songs that I'd written in real time, and I started to connect
07:35with people who I didn't know who had gone through similar experiences or felt similar
07:39feelings, it was, like, that was something that I appreciated so much immediately, and
07:45that was the feeling that I knew I wanted to try to, like, chase, I suppose, more than
07:52anything else.
08:00I feel like one of the reasons why Interscope have been such amazing partners is because
08:08prior to signing, there was already a community of people online who I engaged with often who
08:15were always really responsive to my music when I would upload snippets, and I made them aware
08:21that that was what was most important to me, the writing and then that connection, and they
08:26seemed to value that as much as I did, so I trusted them. And I guess that that was, like,
08:32yeah, really, like, my priority when thinking about doing music for even, like, another year
08:37back then, you know what I mean? I was like, oh, when I look at this next year, I want the
08:41shows to feel a certain way, I want releases to feel a certain way, I want the people that care
08:45to feel like they know that I know that they care. Like, I wanted it all to feel as integrated
08:53as possible, but I definitely didn't have such a broad imagination to certainly never assume,
08:59but, like, zero expectation around any of what's happened. It's outside the bounds of what I
09:06could have dreamed up, so.
09:13Being able to trust everyone I work with to the degree that I do is probably, unfortunately,
09:22a very rare feeling, but I, like, lean on these women. I admire the way that they work. I look
09:28up to the way that they treat other people. I think all of us are equally invested in, like,
09:34all boats rising. Obviously, with this job, there's the creative and artistic, and then there's, like,
09:42the business person side, and when I look at my business, it's just incredibly important to me
09:50that as many positions as possible can be filled by really badass women.
10:04The last week that I went to Long Pond was at the top of the year, right before I left for Tor,
10:15and it was the first time in a while where I felt like I had nothing to say, and I was actually quite
10:21aggravated with myself that I had booked that time, because I felt, I went into it being, like,
10:26oh, I feel like I'm going to waste Aaron's time right now, and his time is precious, and I didn't go in
10:31being, like, this is a relationship I want to write about. This is, like, a feeling that I've got
10:36bubbling inside. It was more I felt a little bit disconnected from myself, and then I think it
10:42speaks to the power of, like, long-time collaboration when you're able to feel that way and enter a room
10:50of someone like Aaron and leave the week with a handful of songs that I couldn't have anticipated
10:58writing ever, necessarily, and songs that have excited me, like, sonically, but really thematically
11:05as well. I think, like, it feels undeniable that, like, there's such sudden and unnecessary cruelty
11:14right now in the world, and I feel like similarly to when I sit down and write about a relationship
11:21that's top of mind. Anything that I'm feeling is what comes out, really. It's subconsciously,
11:33it's shown up in some recent songs in a way that has been interesting, so likely it will be an album.
11:42Like, likely it will be an album, but in my head I was like, oh, maybe I'll do a couple EPs or something
11:46before this year of touring is over, and then there's, like, months to go in and, like, be super
11:54intentional, but we've been experimenting with things along the way, and I really love the music,
12:02and I think I've just been trying to, like, take the pressure off of myself to, like, have to reinvent.
12:09It's like, actually, there's something really reaffirming, I guess, having just been on this leg of
12:15the tour where the rooms are so much bigger, and I went in assuming that, like, I love you, I'm sorry,
12:23and that's so true would be the songs that are screamed the loudest, but it's, like, they're as loud
12:30as Camden. For example, I'm like, whoa.
12:32That made me feel like I can go into this next chapter and not feel like I need to, like, reinvent the wheel.
12:47I feel lucky that when I sit down to write, I'm still not, you know, still now, I'm not, I'm not thinking
12:54about, like, if I'm, like, half a verse in, I'm like, what will happen when this song is out in the world?
12:58It's, like, writing for me has always, since I was little, been the thing that I've turned to in order
13:03to process my feelings in a way that is, like, most productive, I think. Like, I've always found it
13:08easier to write about how I feel instead of, like, communicating it directly with people, so when I
13:15write music, that's still true, and so there's definitely nothing that I'm, like, beating around
13:21the bush, you know, with. Like, I think it's, it's always quite straight to the point. I think touring
13:29is a really cool metric to, like, gauge what might work. Like, music feels so visceral live,
13:36and I've been very excited about the concept of, like, not only reimagining certain songs that we've
13:43been playing, but also, like, as I move into tying up loose ends production-wise on some of these new
13:50songs, it's, like, I want it to feel powerful, and I think, like, when you think about a festival
13:55set, you want everything to be punchy as hell.
14:03The next step, in my head, I think about the next album first, and so I hope that I don't get in my
14:09own way so much. That's my next step, is just, like, super hands-on, of course, but, like,
14:16like, like, let it, let it be who I am, like, I think is my goal, yeah.
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