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00:00The French President Emmanuel Macron addressing the nation with a very clear message that
00:13Europe has to unite in the face of what is happening right now to Ukraine and of course
00:17the fact that the United States appears to be pulling further and further away from its
00:21traditional allies.
00:22Let's go straight to the Elysee Palace from where Emmanuel Macron has been speaking.
00:27James Andre is our reporter there at the scene.
00:30James, good evening to you.
00:31This perhaps in many ways was expected but nonetheless to hear those words as clearly
00:36as that, Europe has to unite, the United States pulling away, a different future lies ahead.
00:42The message from Macron, very clear.
00:45A very strong and clear message from Emmanuel Macron.
00:49Very clearly what he's trying to do here is mobilise the French, get them behind him in
00:54this new world.
00:56We are indeed facing, the President said it quite clearly, that the recipes of the past
01:01cannot be applied to what is happening now.
01:04He did outline what the objectives of this summit that is going to take place, the European
01:09summit that's going to take place tomorrow, are going to be.
01:11He did explain that there were going to be new tools available, that indeed the deficit
01:16rules that had been in place in the European Union were going to be lifted for military
01:22spending, also saying that there would be unprecedented amounts of money injected into
01:28building a European defence.
01:30He also reminded everyone that it is something he's been asking and calling for over the
01:35past eight years for the people following French politics.
01:38This started in the Discours de la Sorbonne back in 2017 and it is something that's been
01:43constant in the President's message that there is a need for independence and sovereignty
01:49when it comes to European defence.
01:53But also a message to the French people saying that yes, it is in the sense of the end of
01:57an era and that what is going to be required now from the French public is indeed a new
02:04mobilisation in the face of a new threat and a moment where indeed the French public is
02:10called upon to step up and indeed defend its values.
02:16Indeed, James, one of the things that Macron did point out there is that there will be
02:20no tax rises.
02:21He was saying that the spending that is envisaged, and I think it's looking at the graph that
02:27he put up there during his speech, it's something like a €20 billion increase in spending
02:32from now until 2030 to back this re-militarisation that he is launching right now.
02:39He was saying that would be private-public funding, no tax increases.
02:42Now, that is a big thing to say.
02:44I wonder how realistic that might be.
02:49Well, look, I mean, these are going to be all the question marks that are now on the
02:52table.
02:52He said that indeed he didn't want tax raises, but he said there would be sacrifices and
02:56there would be decisions to be made.
02:58He also said that he wanted to see the country re-industrialised and he said he wanted to
03:03see this re-industrialisation to take place across all the regions of France.
03:08Basically, he said what we need is to have an integrated system where indeed there is
03:13European investment for European production, European products, and complete sovereignty
03:17when it comes to the complete chain, if you will, of production for these new military
03:22tools that are now required in the face of a renewed Russian threat.
03:27He actually outlined that threat, explaining that he said that Russia cannot be trusted
03:33at face value.
03:35There was this graph where he showed how Russian investment was on the rise, how many tanks,
03:39planes, men indeed Vladimir Putin's Russia was recruiting and producing at the time we
03:46are speaking, basically outlying the risk that stood before the European Union by 2030.
03:55So Emmanuel Macron very clearly restating France's position there and explaining that,
04:01yes, France needs to step up, needs to defend Ukraine in order to put it in a position where
04:06there can be a peace deal and a solid peace deal.
04:10And he said not only for Ukraine and Europe, but he said even if this peace is achieved,
04:15yes, there will be sacrifice investment and there will be an effort from the French people,
04:19though he wants to do that without rising the taxes and that, of course, is going to
04:23be a challenge.
04:24James Andre, for now, thank you very much indeed, James Andre there at the Elysee Palace
04:27where Emmanuel Macron has just been speaking to announce this re-militarisation of France,
04:33something that will create jobs.
04:34Macron is pointing out in a very positive manner, but of course, this is all about the
04:38response to what is happening over Ukraine with Donald Trump's decisions taken in Washington
04:43and Mar-a-Lago to basically cut off military aid and also intelligence sharing with Kyiv,
04:50which is a major blow to Ukraine's existential fight against Russia.
04:54Angela Diffley, our international affairs editor, is with us here in the studio.
04:58All this is Macron's response to Donald Trump, basically.
05:01It is. I was struck there. I thought he might go in a bit harder, actually, on this issue
05:08of preparing the French public for the money this is going to involve because, as you pointed
05:14out in James 2, he has pretty much ruled out tax hikes. There was a lot of talk about this
05:20idea of fiscal patriotism that the wealthy should be asked to pay a lot more to defend
05:27the country.
05:28The other alternatives are borrowing. That is something that's harder and harder for
05:32France to do. It already has a big public deficit. And so what is left is reducing public
05:39spending. That is going to go down very badly in a country like France, which so cherishes
05:44its welfare state, its social security spending, but that money has to come from somewhere.
05:51I think we'll probably talk a bit later about this idea of Russian assets tomorrow in the
05:55summit, which that might also release some money. The European Union is also loaning
06:04money to various governments so that they might increase their spending on defence.
06:09He put a very positive spin on it, talking about the jobs it would involve. That is true.
06:15But the French need to get ready to spend a lot on defence, and this has got to come
06:21from somewhere. And Britain, because of course Keir Starmer made a very similar speech just
06:26earlier last week, and said that Britain would be taking it from overseas humanitarian aid.
06:33France has already cut that by 30%. There isn't a lot of room for manoeuvre there for
06:37France. So in a very fractious Assemblée Nationale, with always the risk of a government
06:46being toppled, this is going to have to be fought out. Where is this money going to come from?
06:51Angela, stay with us please. Let's bring in Quentin Peel. Quentin is Associate Fellow
06:56on the Europe Programme at Chatham House. Quentin Peel, always a pleasure to have you
07:00with us here on France 34. We always appreciate your insight, especially right now, because what
07:04we're seeing is a major change in step, not just in France but across Europe. Because of what
07:10Donald Trump has done and the policies he's implementing, because of the situation in Ukraine,
07:14because of the threat from Vladimir Putin and Russia, how is this going to change Europe going
07:19forward? What did you make of Macron's speech? Well, it is the dramatic Trump effect that we're
07:26clearly seeing in France, in Britain and also in Germany. And this all arises really out of
07:34Donald Trump being such a suddenly much less reliable ally than we've always taken for granted.
07:45So I think that they are all preparing their publics for a really dramatic shift in spending
07:53towards defence. And indeed, both Britain and France certainly have already, in principle,
08:00said that they would be prepared to put British and French soldiers on the ground in Ukraine,
08:05at least to keep the peace, if we can get a peace. But these are huge questions that
08:11still remain because everything that Donald Trump does in America seems to be very much exactly what
08:18Vladimir Putin would like him to be doing, cutting off the arms and cutting off the intelligence
08:24from Ukraine. That's a real danger. And this aspect of Trump almost being in lockstep with
08:30Vladimir Putin, it is one of the most disturbing aspects of what's going on right now, isn't it?
08:35Yes, it is. And I don't think we quite understand it. I mean, why is Donald Trump apparently so
08:42smitten by the Russian president? He seems to be very trusting of him. And that was the problem
08:50why his talks blew up with Vladimir Zelensky last week, but he kept saying to Zelensky,
08:56you must trust Donald Trump. Sorry, you must trust Vladimir Putin. And Zelensky finally said,
09:04look, I can't. He has a track record. So this is going to be really difficult.
09:09The other thing that I think also the big question that hangs over all of this is if the Europeans
09:16have a clear game plan where Europe is going to provide the security for Ukraine to sign up to a
09:25ceasefire, will the Russians be prepared to accept European, i.e. NATO, troops on the ground
09:33in Ukraine? Because that is totally contrary to everything that Putin has said up till now.
09:39Indeed. And Quentin, one wonders what shape, what form NATO will take in the weeks to come,
09:44because it is moving that quickly. Quentin, bear with us. I'm bringing Angela back in,
09:47our international affairs editor, Angela Diffley. Quentin, making a good point there about what
09:52happens next in terms of boots on the ground in a peacekeeping capacity. Let's state that loudly,
09:58in a peacekeeping capacity. But nonetheless, it's hard to imagine that Vladimir Putin will
10:01be happy to accept something like that. Give us your thoughts. It is. And Donald Trump said
10:06a while back, yes, I've spoken to Putin about this. He's fine with it. And, you know,
10:11it's that aspect. Trump says he's fine with it. But it appeared that he wasn't.
10:17You know, it's interesting what Quentin was saying there about Trump's fascination
10:22obsession with Putin, which is hard to fathom, hard to understand. Equally weird is his dislike
10:31of Zelensky, which some people track back to the fact that Zelensky, there was a famous phone call
10:38about would he cooperate on finding dirt on Hunter Biden? And that became, that was leaked. It
10:44eventually led to attempts to impeach or an impeachment of Donald Trump. You know, does he
10:48still hold all of that against him? It's extraordinary that personal relationships
10:53are turning the world upside down to the extent that they are. Also, I think that it's worth
10:59mentioning that within Europe, there is a huge problem. And that is Viktor Orban. And tomorrow,
11:07at this meeting, he was not invited to those meetings, the London summit over how to respond
11:15to the drama in the Oval Office. But he is a clear, open admirer of both Putin and Trump.
11:23And at some point, he has to clarify his position. It is very, very difficult. He will be opposing
11:29one of the things they're expected to discuss at their summit tomorrow, the 27 defense ministers
11:34and I think heads of state are meeting tomorrow to talk about everything, Ukraine and European
11:40defense. And he already opposes the idea of sending aid right now to Ukraine, which so far
11:48has no aid because Washington has halted it. You know, Orban really needs to clarify his position.
11:56Hungary isn't a huge country, what 10 million people. But in the European Parliament, those
12:01far right parties can create a lot of mischief. That said, they are all fairly divided on their
12:07attitude to Ukraine. There are difficulties within Europe. But broadly, and Emmanuel Macron
12:13has been saying it for years, as he said, Europe has woken up, realizes that it needs to shoulder
12:20its own defense. Angela, bear with us. Quentin Peel from Chatham House is hanging on too. Let's
12:25go back to James Andre. He was at the Elysee, where Emmanuel Macron made his speech just a
12:30few moments ago. James, I hope you can still hear us. I understand James no longer available
12:36technical issues, I'm afraid to say. We're hoping to get more insight from our reporter at the
12:41courtyard there at the Elysee Palace. But James Andre sadly indisposed. But we do have Angela
12:46Duffy and we do have Quentin Peel from Chatham House, who will go to next. Quentin, this issue
12:51about getting Europe united, Macron was very clear on that. It's what has to happen, he says. But
12:56as Angela was just pointing out, with the likes of Victor Orban in the family, it's easy to see
13:02that it could become a family in the broader sense at war. I think it's a real problem. I mean,
13:09obviously, they've known this for a long time, that Victor Orban was going to be the difficult
13:12man. I think I read that he was due to have, is he going to have supper tonight with Mr Macron?
13:18We're getting a head nod on that one, yes. Right, OK. But the other key country here,
13:25which is a little bit in limbo, of course, is Germany. Germany, which has just had an election,
13:31we have a new chancellor who's going to be taking over but hasn't done so yet in Friedrich Merz.
13:39He is making very much the right sort of noises, I think. He said straight away as soon as the
13:45election was over, we've got to get our act together. We can no longer rely on the Americans
13:51to provide our security. Europe has got to unite. So I think that Emmanuel Macron will have
13:58a good and strong ally in Friedrich Merz. The question is, will Olaf Scholz bring him,
14:05invite him to come along to the summit in Brussels tomorrow? I'm not sure that we are that far. We
14:11have to be waiting for Germany. And yet there is very little time to lose. They need to take
14:16urgent action. It is one of these things that needs, as you say, urgent action. Macron calling
14:22for Europe to be united and obviously calling on all the European partners to increase
14:27their defence spending. And that is another issue, isn't it? Getting those attitudes to change
14:32towards this issue. It's one that Donald Trump flagged up, of course, on more than one occasion.
14:36We can go back to his previous mandate when he was Trump 45. Now, of course, Trump 47.
14:42He actually flagged this up that Europe wasn't spending enough on its defence.
14:46Yeah. And of course, one must give, I suppose, credit at least in this to Donald Trump
14:52that actually he has finally put a real bomb under the Europeans in terms of
14:58really forcing them to to actually up their own military spending. He's been complaining for
15:04years, not only Donald Trump, other Americans, too. And I think finally the Europeans realise
15:10that they are going to have to spend more money on defence. And it's not a popular thing in all
15:17the countries of the European Union and indeed in Great Britain. On the issue of tariffs, Quentin,
15:24Macron saying he hopes to persuade Trump not to impose tariffs on European goods, but
15:30trying to get Trump to do something that basically might be against what he's
15:34thinking or what someone's telling him to think. Easier said than done.
15:39Yes, absolutely. And I was watching his speech to Congress during the night and he's adamant
15:45that that is still the way he's moving forward. The trouble with Donald Trump is he is so
15:51unpredictable. He says one thing one week and then he seems to reverse it the next week.
15:56Certainly, I think he's going to get quite a lot of pushback on the question of tariffs,
16:02not so much from the people on whom he's imposing them, but from his own business people. You saw
16:09the reaction on Wall Street when he said he was going ahead with the tariffs on Canada and Mexico
16:15and China and Wall Street instantly dropped. So he says now he's going to go ahead with what he
16:21calls reciprocal tariffs on April the 2nd. And as far as I can see, he means it. But then at the end
16:29of the day, will he suddenly change his mind if he realises it could actually be a very negative
16:35thing economically for the United States? It's one of these things, Quentin, isn't it, that when
16:40Trump is looking at his figures and he does look at his figures, it matters to him whether he's
16:44popular or not, regardless of what he says. And in the popular vote, he didn't win by such a
16:49massive margin as he says he did. If public opinion starts to turn against him, could that
16:54possibly dissuade him from the extreme positions he's taking now? It looked last night as if he
17:01had a pretty united Republican Party backing him. They were on their feet, clapping on every positive
17:08thing he said. But having said that, there is on both Ukraine and on the question of imposing
17:16tariffs, there is a clear core of traditional Republican politicians who actually find both
17:24things very uncomfortable. They don't want to get into bed with Vladimir Putin and they don't
17:30want to undermine free trade. So he has got to work all the time at keeping his party together.
17:38So I think that there is actually some hope that his actual wildest ideas of slapping great
17:45swinging tariffs on all his main trading partners, he may back off in the end. Indeed, it's one of
17:52these things. I'll bring Angela back in on this one, Quentin, please bear with us, we'll come
17:55back to you as soon as we possibly can. It's one of these things, Angela, that it's one thing to
18:00talk tough about tariffs, but it does have a knock-on effect which often leads to, and I'm
18:04no economist, but from what I've read, it leads to inflation going up. And that's clearly what
18:08he doesn't want to happen, Trump. Absolutely. And businesses, as Quentin said, are already
18:13complaining. And whatever Trump cares about, he does care about Wall Street. And markets are
18:18already showing jitters that will give him pause for thought. You know, that said, it's very odd
18:23because his reasons for imposing tariffs keep changing. Originally, we were told on Canada
18:30that it was about stopping illegal migrants and fentanyl. Same with Mexico. Then it was about
18:36something else. It appears that he is wedded to tariffs and finds a reason to impose them.
18:43That in itself is a strange policy. And I think, as Quentin says, he will have some pushback from
18:51certain Republicans and from business on that. The other thing, of course, about tariffs is
18:56when you impose tariffs, those countries on whom they have been imposed look for other markets.
19:03And so eventually, you don't have that leverage anymore, whether it's the case that Donald Trump
19:07simply doesn't care after his four years. But it's a risky business imposing tariffs in such a
19:15freewheeling way. Indeed. Let's come back to the issue of Europe, though, and what Emmanuel Macron
19:19was saying about Europe. Just to remind people watching, Angela Diffley, our International
19:23Affairs Editor, Quentin Peel from Chatham House for the Europe programme is joining us from afar.
19:28Quentin, back to you with Macron's call for Europe to unite. The issue of a European army
19:34clearly suggests itself, doesn't it, in terms of this has been something that has been spoken about
19:39for many, many years. And it's been something that's been pushed into the long grass and said,
19:43well, it can't happen. But now it looks like with the way things are developing, that this is
19:48something that perhaps is now back on the agenda. Yes, I think it is. I mean, when you say European
19:55army, those are the sort of words that cause great anxiety, certainly in the country where
20:02I'm sitting in the United Kingdom. But at least a coordinated European military strategy with
20:09close cooperation. The problem with the Europeans is always that the communication between the
20:14different countries, the linguistic problems, but also the different systems that they have
20:20is always a problem. Now, how far can they go down this line? I'm fascinated by a particular
20:26problem that this creates for Kirstarma, because here is the United Kingdom, which has stormed out
20:33of the European Union with Brexit back in 2016. To my mind, a complete disaster for Britain.
20:42But now suddenly they're looking that they may actually be sucked back into a much more
20:49militarised European Union. The very thing that they always argued that we shouldn't be doing.
20:55NATO was the key to our military future, not the European Union. Indeed. How great is the threat
21:01from Russia, Quentin? Macron was very clear. He said that this is the threat to the whole of Europe
21:06and France. But in your view, how great a threat does Russia represent right now?
21:11I think that Russia does represent a considerable threat on issues like cyber security. We've seen
21:18all the problems that Russian ships have apparently been creating, dragging their anchors through
21:24cables across the Baltic Sea. They've been investigating transatlantic cables. Russia
21:30is capable of a lot of really serious nuisance, even if I don't think we expect to see Russian
21:39tanks steaming across Europe. They're well bogged down in Ukraine for the time being.
21:44But Russia is not an enemy that anybody will take lightly. I'm wondering what the capacity
21:50of Europe will be in order to meet the demands that Emmanuel Macron is talking about. It's
21:56increasing the spending from 20 billion euros this year to 70 billion by 2030. I'm wondering
22:04both you and Quentin and Angela here for some thoughts on how Europe reaches that capacity,
22:09how France reaches that capacity to produce the arms that Emmanuel Macron says are needed.
22:14Quentin, can I ask you that first? Well, Angela mentioned earlier the key question of
22:19are we going to use the frozen Russian assets? That's something that both France and Germany
22:25have been really rather cautious about and much keener to say, look, we'll use the income from
22:30the frozen assets, but not actually impound the Russian assets. I think we're now getting much
22:36closer to the fact that actually that is something that they could do. And there you're talking a
22:42very substantial amount of money that could be seized and could help towards financing a much
22:48more substantial European military effort. And Quentin, thank you. Bear with us. Angela,
22:54your thoughts? Yeah, it's 200 billion euros of frozen Russian assets. About, I think,
23:01two to three billion of the interest on that has been used. But until now, that actual money has
23:07been frozen, but not seized. And there is, of course, a question of whether that should be
23:13seized and that money used. Merz, the new German leader, is apparently a lot more favourable to the
23:20idea than Olaf Scholz was. France, we are hearing, is moving perhaps closer to the idea of allowing
23:27it. The problem is, of course, is that France is fearful that investors will be pushed away by the
23:38idea that investing in Europe could lead to their assets being frozen. And of course, it's Europe
23:45that's going to suffer. Britain is quite keen on using these assets, but Britain isn't going to
23:49suffer. The United States keeps saying, use those assets. It's Europe that's going to suffer if it
23:55does cause investors to shy away. It appears they're moving towards the idea, perhaps, of
24:01using it in final negotiations or as leverage and saying, if a ceasefire is agreed and you violate
24:09it, then we will seize those 200 billion euros of Russian assets. If they decide to use them right
24:15now, it apparently would be a real game-changer. It's going to take 10 years for Europe to be able
24:22to protect itself. And it's just simply not making enough stuff. It's not manufacturing
24:27enough weaponry or equipment. And you can't do that overnight. Macron made the point about
24:33re-industrialisation. There aren't the factories to create the weapons. There aren't the factories
24:38to create the hardware. No, no. I mean, there's an upside in terms of job creation, which he
24:44pushed forward. There's a positive spin on all of this. It's all about Europe realising that,
24:51as, you know, Quentin was saying, we were told NATO was responsible for European defence. It
24:58turns out, perhaps not quite so much. Time for Europe to shoulder the burden. And that does,
25:03at least, mean jobs. But there's a very significant downside. As you say, Angela,
25:08that's going to take a good decade for that to kick in. So there's lots of work to be done.
25:12Let's show you the images coming from the Elysee Palace, where Viktor Orbán, the Prime Minister
25:16of Hungary, we understand, is arriving, as Quentin Peel explained to us earlier, for supper with
25:22Emmanuel Macron. They have much to discuss, of course. Viktor Orbán is, I think it's fair to say,
25:27far right in his political leanings. He is an ally, and he has said this himself, of Vladimir
25:33Putin. He is an admirer of Donald Trump. He is opposed aid for Ukraine, and someone who's been
25:39basically a spanner in the works Europe-wise in terms of support for Ukraine along the way. But
25:44the two men smiling, as they always do for the cameras. But now they go into the Elysee Palace,
25:50where the conversation will, I imagine, begin straight away, given the agenda that Emmanuel
25:56Macron, Quentin Peel, is bringing you in now. Emmanuel Macron has just outlined he needs to
26:00basically get Orbán onside, doesn't he? I think he does, and I think it's going to be a fascinating
26:07conversation. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be a fly on the wall? Indeed. I think that Emmanuel
26:13Macron realises what they also realise, he realises, and so does Keir Starmer, that somebody
26:19like Viktor Orbán will appreciate the gesture of being made, of being invited to come to dinner in
26:26the Elysee immediately before the summit. He will be somewhat flattered, just as Donald Trump is
26:31flattered to get the personal attention, for example, with Keir Starmer bringing along an
26:37invitation to dinner with King Charles. And so there is a touch there of how to get round it.
26:43But Viktor Orbán has been very consistent in being pro-Putin and pro-Trump. He's not an easy
26:50man to deal with at all. Very difficult to see how he's going to make the Hungarian leader change
26:56his stance. And of course, in Slovakia, it's Robert Fico who also shares Orbán's kind of agenda.
27:03Indeed it is. And I think that this is the real challenge to European unity, if they can get all
27:09the traditional Europeans around. And now the key person here may be somebody like Giorgia Maloney,
27:15the Italian prime minister, because she comes from the far right, but in fact has always been
27:22much more sympathetic, both to Ukraine in particular. And so she could play a role in
27:28bringing people together. But Europe is not in an easy place at the moment. Maybe it is precisely
27:35the danger that we face from Donald Trump and from Vladimir Putin that will really finally force
27:42Europe to get its act together, to unite, as President Macron says we have to.
27:47Quentin, bear with us. Angela, can I bring you back in? That thought about Giorgia Maloney being
27:51somehow the catalyst that might spark that change. Yeah, I was going to say the same thing, actually.
27:56They don't agree, as Quentin says, on Ukraine. But she's a very smooth operator
28:03and he is a very canny operator. And, you know, it looks like he would like money and certainly
28:11not to be locked out of some funding. The Hungarians have been punished, if you like, by Brussels
28:16for various transgressions and had money withheld from them. If that could be unlocked, it might help.
28:23I also think that people underestimate to what extent woke issues matter in all this. It's not
28:31just about economies and trade and defence. I think if he could be given some sort of assurance
28:40that there would be movement, a little bit less interference from Russia on too many issues,
28:47and maybe she could be instrumental in making that happen, maybe that would bring him around.
28:53But at the end of the day, Europe cannot allow itself to be held hostage by a country of 10
28:58million people that does not appear to share the views that are held by the others. That said,
29:06Quentin was pointing out, of course, you know, how big a menace Russia could be, how big a threat
29:11it could be. It very much depends as well how close you are to Russia, as we know all those
29:16Baltic states and those countries near Russia broadly fear it. And the further you go away,
29:23apart from Georgia and Maloney, certainly Spain sees it as much less of a threat. But
29:29Orban cannot be allowed really to hold so much sway. They need to find a way around this problem.
29:35He is a legitimate member of the European Union. They can't just trample all over him. They need
29:39to sort this out. And the threat, it's not geographic, is it? As Quentin was pointing out,
29:43it's the cyber threat that's even more pernicious in many ways. And Spain can't shelter itself from
29:48that. We're out of time. Angela, thank you very much indeed. Quentin Peel from Shadow House,
29:52thank you. Quentin, I wanted to ask you about BAE Systems and their share price going about 20%
29:57after Keir Starmer made that announcement about having to rearm. But we haven't got time for that.
30:01But there's going to be big business in this for many, many people, isn't there, I think?
30:06Yes, absolutely. I think that the stock markets, for once, are giving us a clear lead.
30:12Quentin Peel at Shadow House, thank you for being brief on that one. But thank you for the depth
30:16you've brought to our understanding of what's been happening right now. Quentin Peel from the
30:20Europe Programme at Shadow House. And thanks, of course, to Angela Diffley here in the studio,
30:24our International Affairs Editor. Angela, thank you very much indeed.