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00:00What you would say to the average person who wants to stick their head in the sand and ignore all things crypto-related?
00:07A lot of institutions, a lot of government are looking into crypto.
00:10Explain to me why I need to feel safer, certainly in the UAE, when it comes to trading crypto.
00:16Because cryptocurrencies have been decentralized.
00:19So it cuts out the middleman, it cuts out the bank.
00:21But if you want more safety, you become a little bit more centralized, so you do it through an exchange.
00:26And one of the accusations that gets leveled at cryptocurrency is the environmental impact of all the mining that's required.
00:35El Salvador powers some of their Bitcoin mining from a volcano.
00:39The heat from the Bitcoin mining machine can be reused.
00:43Was using that heat to dry mangoes?
00:45Don't go for the FOMO and the meme coins.
00:49You're only going to lose.
00:53Justin Harper, thank you very much for being here today.
00:56I appreciate it.
00:57Thank you for having me.
00:58So Crypto Radio, you are a host, a producer and co-founder.
01:03That's right.
01:04I'm interested most, what was the inspiration to start the Crypto Radio?
01:09That's a good question.
01:10And it starts with our founder, a guy called Thierry Bouchard.
01:14French guy who's a visionary, very much a crypto bro, crypto trader investor, who was doing a lot of stuff online.
01:22He was part of these communities.
01:23So a lot of crypto is run in communities, small like telegram groups.
01:27So he was part of a lot of these groups and he found himself having to ask.
01:32There was a lot of questions being asked and he was the one giving the answers, really basic questions.
01:36People trading and doing things with crypto, but asking really basic questions.
01:39So he felt there's a real knowledge gap with these people.
01:43And he wanted to sort of bring it to a wider group, apart from these small little telegram groups.
01:47So he decided a platform like the Crypto Radio would be a perfect place for him to help educate people and sort of teach them safer ways of trading and investing in crypto.
01:58So he came up with the original idea.
02:01He wanted it to be about education, but entertainment as well, because that's the thing.
02:05We all sort of, you know, when we hear education, we think of our school days and it brings back bad memories.
02:10Even if you had good school days, bad memories.
02:12So we didn't want it to be pure on an education place.
02:14We wanted to make it sort of pseudo educational and pseudo entertaining as well at the same time.
02:21And that's the balance we're trying to hit.
02:22So it's really just trying to bring crypto to the masses because we know only a small part of the population are trading crypto.
02:30We know that's changed a little bit.
02:31Bitcoin has helped do that.
02:33So that's really, I guess, the seed of the Crypto Radio.
02:37So it's based in Dubai?
02:39We're based in Dubai and we do get a lot of guests who are based here in Dubai and the UAE, but it is a global, it's an internet radio.
02:47So we do have a global audience, which is why we're, you know, often on calls at 9pm and, you know, given the time difference with the US, which drives a lot of the crypto news.
02:56So it's global based here.
02:58So, but I'm curious, is it because Abu Dhabi is stepping onto the global stage when it comes to wanting to be a player, it seems?
03:06And we'll get into, you know, their recent acquisition of all the BlackRock Bitcoin.
03:13But was there a strategic reason for wanting to have at least one of the shows coming out of Dubai?
03:19Yeah, I think so, because it's a hub.
03:22There's a lot of talent here.
03:23It's becoming like digital assets and a crypto hub.
03:27There's a lot of good people here, a lot of companies moving their headquarters and their offices here.
03:32So we knew there was good talent here as well.
03:34And I think it's one of those places, it's got a very modern feel Dubai and crypto is very modern, you know, the future of money potentially as well.
03:41So it was a really good fit.
03:43And then when we look at where else we might want to go, Singapore would be an option.
03:47Bali is an option, the US, India, wherever there are hubs, we want to be there.
03:53But to start with Dubai is a great starting point.
03:56So with that in mind, if you are looking at trying to educate, and I'm curious what you would say to the average person who wants to stick their head in the sand and ignore all things crypto related.
04:11Why should they care?
04:13They should care because the long term play, the long term game really is cryptocurrencies.
04:19And it's obviously very nascent now.
04:21Bitcoin's only been around for like 16, 17 years.
04:24You know, it's had a few hiccups, lots of scams along the way.
04:27But I think, you know, as you've touched upon there, a lot of institutions, a lot of governments and, you know, very trustworthy institutions are looking into crypto and investing into crypto.
04:38So more the tide is turning towards this store of value, this trustworthy future of money, digital asset, and it's easy to use.
04:47It's quick and comes a lot of the time with lower fees, which is a key thing compared to normal fiat currency.
04:53So I think you can stick your head in the sand for now, but every day that goes by a new player is coming on board.
05:01More banks are starting to offer crypto to their customers there.
05:05So it's sort of like it's becoming less and less a smart choice to turn your head against crypto.
05:12So you talk about banks and I know that the UAE Central Bank is going to be launching an AE coin and that's called a stable coin because it's backed by a central bank.
05:24Is that how it works?
05:25Yeah.
05:26So that also seems to be part of a wider UAE strategy, which is, as I mentioned earlier, just a few days ago, it was announced that Mubadala Sovereign Wealth Fund had invested $436 million in BlackRock's Bitcoin.
05:44And why do you think that move was made at this time?
05:50I think the UAE is quite closely aligned to the US and we've heard of Donald Trump thinking of launching his own strategic reserve of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
06:00And I think a lot of other governments, the UAE included, will be thinking, is that a smart thing to do?
06:05Because it's no longer like this speculative play.
06:08People see it really as a store of value and a hedge against inflation.
06:12And what Mubadala did, I think a lot of people thought, wow, you've got a fairly conservative fund.
06:18Now looking at Bitcoin, maybe we need to rethink our view of Bitcoin.
06:22Even individuals thinking, you know, Bitcoin probably is much safer than it was a few years ago, much less volatile.
06:28So it was a really symbolic big move for what they did.
06:32And a lot of people have praised them for investing in it because I think others will follow.
06:37And of course, supply and demand, the price will probably go up and maybe they got in at a good entry point.
06:43So are there other government players that have invested as heavily as Abu Dhabi?
06:50Abu Dhabi, I think when it comes to this BlackRock, it's a Bitcoin ETF.
06:54It's a fund of Bitcoin.
06:56I think they're the seventh biggest investor in that fund.
06:59There are other bigger investors.
07:01There are certain companies, like there's a company called MicroStrategy who rebranded themselves Strategy.
07:08And they are heavy buyers of Bitcoin and other governments.
07:12The US haven't quite done it yet, but there are other governments sort of talking about investing in it.
07:17China's probably not as transparent as in what they are doing with Bitcoin,
07:22but they could well be storing Bitcoin and buying Bitcoin.
07:25The UK, and this is the interesting thing.
07:27A lot of these governments acquired Bitcoin when they got it from illicit trade, from money laundering.
07:34So they have it on their balance sheets anyway.
07:36And they're like, well, we've got it on our balance sheets.
07:38Maybe we can add to it and buy some as well.
07:42So yeah, I think more and more governments, a classic one is El Salvador.
07:46El Salvador stands out because they made Bitcoin legal tender.
07:50And they've been buying like one Bitcoin a day for like years and years and years.
07:54Individuals who we interview, they buy not one Bitcoin,
07:57but they buy like a part of a share of Bitcoin every month with their paycheck,
08:04which is a really great way to do it because then you smooth out any of the peaks and troughs
08:08when you're regularly buying cryptocurrencies.
08:12You might buy it high one month, but you might buy it low another month.
08:15So a lot of people are getting into that habit because governments are doing the same thing.
08:20So with what Abu Dhabi did recently, and because they have the Abu Dhabi global markets
08:26and they have M2, talk to me a little bit about how M2 fits into their crypto strategy.
08:33I like what they're doing as in very forward thinking.
08:37And it's good that we've got these homegrown crypto exchanges
08:41and crypto players building the ecosystem here.
08:44But you've also got within the UAE other regulators.
08:47You've got ADGM, you've got Avara in Dubai, you've got DIFC.
08:52Up in RAC you've got RACDAO.
08:54So you've got a number of these regulators all sort of having a piece of the pie there.
08:59So it's like we could say we're very well covered when it comes to that.
09:02But I think the UAE is in a strong position given it's got all of these different regulators.
09:07Hopefully we'll start working together because obviously the US and Trump has come out
09:13because obviously it's a lot of America first and made in America.
09:16And he wants to be like the world leading crypto hub when it comes to companies being based there,
09:22when it comes to crypto mining.
09:24So we need that competition.
09:26I don't think we can have any one country dominating what is supposed to be the people's currency.
09:31That's the whole point of cryptocurrency.
09:33It's not supposed to be controlled by any one man or any one country.
09:36So it's great we've got the UAE, Abu Dhabi and Dubai sort of pushing the boundaries
09:43and other markets as well like El Salvador.
09:46Who would have thought El Salvador would be like a leading Bitcoin player?
09:50So it's really sort of opened the playing field.
09:52So we've talked a little bit about Abu Dhabi.
09:55What is it that Dubai is doing to put themselves, aside from the crypto tower,
10:00but to put themselves in that position where they're seen as a big player on the global stage
10:05when it comes to cryptocurrencies?
10:07Dubai has a lot of big events and it brings in a lot of talent to come and speak to these events.
10:14So there's probably one every week and they're all called similar names.
10:18It gets really confusing.
10:19It's like the Global Blockchain Summit, the Global Blockchain Congress.
10:23And some people's eyes, as soon as you mention the word blockchain, their eyes glaze over.
10:27And then there's crypto this and crypto that and Bitcoin Mino.
10:31Recently we had Donald Trump's son, Eric, came that was actually in Abu Dhabi.
10:35But Dubai definitely is making a name for itself as a place where people come and discuss and talk.
10:41And as you mentioned, the physical, the crypto tower, there might be a Bitcoin tower.
10:46As you know, there might be a musket tower as well.
10:49So it's just sort of trying to find its feet, doing something slightly different.
10:53Regulation is important.
10:54And that's the crazy thing because people think when you regulate something, it puts people off.
10:59Crypto is the opposite.
11:00When you regulate something, it actually encourages people.
11:03There's now guardrails.
11:04And so Dubai also wants to be seen as a place where it's safe and forward thinking and where you can go into a tower and set up your own crypto company.
11:15So there's a lot of stuff there I want to unpack.
11:17So you talk about people wanting to feel safe.
11:19I think one of the reasons why people move to the UAE is to feel safe, 100%.
11:23But there's also this idea that because when they want to introduce something that's new, cryptocurrencies, and they want to make it more accessible,
11:32they also want to make it safer.
11:33So I think what the UAE is doing when it comes to cryptocurrencies, they're trying to be as transparent as possible.
11:40But you also talked about some of the scams that have been associated with crypto in the past.
11:45So why would someone now feel, why should they feel comfortable if somebody on your radio station is speaking to you saying,
11:54explain to me why I need to feel safer, certainly in the UAE, when it comes to trading crypto?
12:01What are the safety nets that are in place so that people are going to feel like they're not being scammed?
12:08Yeah, I think it's a really tough balancing act because cryptocurrencies have been decentralized.
12:15So it cuts out the middleman.
12:17It cuts out the banks.
12:19You and I can transact over the blockchain and I can send you Bitcoin.
12:25I can send you another cryptocurrency and there's no need for a bank.
12:28But that's based on trust between me and you.
12:30And so it's like getting the best of both worlds.
12:32That's decentralized.
12:34But if you want more safety, you become a little bit more centralized.
12:37So you do it through an exchange.
12:39So you've got companies like Binance and OKEx and CoinMina in this region where they're like the third party.
12:46So it's weird that it's decentralized, but people actually prefer some form of centralization to give that safety.
12:54And that's what Dubai is good at because a lot of these companies are based here.
12:58Some are homegrown, but a lot of the big global crypto exchanges have offices in the UAE.
13:05And that's the ironic thing.
13:07And that's what people have said about Bitcoin.
13:08Bitcoin was supposed to be peer-to-peer, me and you lend each other money, no need for a bank.
13:13But already we've talked about governments buying it.
13:16Southern wealth funds buying it.
13:18Big institutions.
13:19It was supposed to be kind of like the people's currency.
13:21And over the years, the landscapes changed a bit.
13:25But can't you see that the role the government would play is more of introducing the guardrails?
13:31And maybe there's a little bit of an oversight, but not too much because it still remains transactional over blockchain.
13:40So the role that the government plays is more not pushing, but necessarily, okay, if this is what you're going to do, we're going to help facilitate.
13:50And maybe we'll shine a light on it, be a little bit more transparent, and we'll help some of that.
13:55So it's not just people mining in their basements.
13:58It's actually bringing it into the light of day.
14:01Yes?
14:02Yeah, absolutely.
14:04who think that we can exist without the government and the state.
14:08I guess if they want mass adoption, they will have to sort of suck it up a little bit and say, look, we will need, as you mentioned, some sort of government invisible hand style, helping it along.
14:21Otherwise, it's all based on trust.
14:23And it's still an unregulated product with a very bad reputation outside of the industry, even in the industry, I guess, as well.
14:30People just thinking it's for money laundering.
14:33It's, you know, it's about the dark web.
14:36And it's going to take a while for us to prove that crypto is more than just that.
14:42So before I get to Elon Musk's father and what he's going to be doing here in Dubai, I wanted to ask one more question.
14:47When it comes to the UAE, five, 10 years from now, do they want to be to crypto what Switzerland is to gold?
14:57That perception that that is the hub of crypto?
15:02Yeah, I think they do.
15:04And I think that's the way we're headed there.
15:06They're very forward thinking.
15:07We've got the physical now.
15:09We've got the, you know, the digital players coming here.
15:12But the interesting thing is, even if it's the US, El Salvador, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, these hubs, Singapore, it's like online.
15:21It doesn't matter where you are in the world.
15:23You know, it's all online.
15:24It's digital money on the internet, on the blockchain.
15:27So it doesn't really matter where you are.
15:30But I do think Dubai definitely sees an opportunity there and is moving in that direction.
15:35Like we want to be a crypto hub.
15:37We want to be, well, future proof, future ready AI.
15:41And there's, you know, a good sort of overlap between AI, crypto, technology, blockchain there.
15:47So I think it's like crypto is a good entry point, but we could be so much more crypto.
15:53That's the interesting thing because the blockchain is known for cryptocurrencies, but the blockchain is the technology.
15:58And it's sort of been hijacked by crypto.
16:00But the blockchain is used by people like the Dubai police.
16:02It's used by governments when it comes to identity and could one day replace passports.
16:07We could all have our ID on the blockchain.
16:09It's used for environmental purposes.
16:12So it's really cryptocurrency.
16:14Of course, we're the crypto radio, but it's really our job as well to say the technology that underlines it can be used for so, so much more than just finance and making money.
16:25So I think Dubai definitely with its ecosystem, with its friendlier, you know, rules for companies coming in and the, you know, it's a great place to live.
16:34A lot of people want to come and move here.
16:36There's a lot of well-known influencers who are based here.
16:39A lot of crypto bros driving their Lambos around the Palm.
16:43It's attracting, you know, it's attracting a lot of people in that space.
16:46So Elon Musk's father, Errol Musk, is going to be in town and he's launching Musket.
16:54An interesting name, a play on his surname, obviously, but also it's interesting.
16:59What is it that, from your understanding, what is it that he's here to do?
17:04He's here, I think, to get support, get financing for Musket Tower.
17:10And it's, you know, as we mentioned before, it's like this almost fidget toy.
17:14It's a virtual and the physical, the tower, Musket Tower, but also a token as well.
17:19A Musket token, which you can use, you know, within the ecosystem to pay for things, to be rewarded when you're doing things within the community.
17:27And I think it already has something like 50,000 holders of the token already.
17:31So let me interrupt you there for a second.
17:33Apologies.
17:34What's the difference between a coin and a token?
17:36A coin is something that has its own blockchain.
17:40So Bitcoin is legitimately a coin because it has its own blockchain underneath it.
17:46Whereas a token doesn't have its own blockchain.
17:48It uses someone else's blockchain.
17:51So you could launch a token off the back of Bitcoin or Ethereum or Solana.
17:56And Solana is very popular for meme coins.
17:59And this is where we talked about, there's a lot of confusion within crypto.
18:02So I just called it a meme coin.
18:03It's not technically a coin.
18:05It's a meme token because it doesn't have its own blockchain.
18:08So if you have your own blockchain, you can have a coin, Bitcoin.
18:12If you don't have your own blockchain, like you own it, it's a token.
18:17So blockchain, AI, Bitcoin, meme coin, token.
18:22What would be, are you an investor?
18:26I have been since joining the crypto radio.
18:29So interestingly, I was taken on because I was out of that space and I wasn't a crypto bro.
18:36So crypto bro, is this the terminology?
18:38I've used it like two or three times, crypto bro.
18:41I like it, personally.
18:42But it's maybe not too inclusive.
18:45But it captures the spirit.
18:48Yeah, it does, absolutely, bros and girls.
18:51And so, yeah, I wasn't a crypto bro.
18:53I was taken on because the crypto radio is for beginners and the crypto curious.
18:57And sometimes the only way to really come up with content for those people
19:01is to employ a journalist who also is asking those questions.
19:05What is the blockchain?
19:06How does it work?
19:07I don't understand it.
19:08Do I have to buy just one Bitcoin?
19:11And people think Bitcoin is around, say, 97,000.
19:14Some people think, oh, I can't afford Bitcoin because I don't have 97,000 USD.
19:19Not realizing you can buy a fraction of a Bitcoin, tiny, tiny fractions called Satoshis.
19:25So yeah, so I was on a learning curve.
19:27Sorry, I've forgotten what the question was.
19:30Do I trade?
19:31Yes.
19:32So I have bought a few coins and tokens just to have skin in the game.
19:38I have two sons who've sort of got caught up in the whole meme coin frenzy
19:43who want me to buy coins and meme coins on their behalf,
19:46like with dogs on their face, you know, dogs, frogs, animals,
19:51all sorts of things there.
19:52So I'm having to do a bit of research to try and say, you know,
19:55look, these things are very risky, only a small percentage of people.
19:58So yeah, I think sometimes, you know, you've got to walk the talk.
20:01So you have to.
20:02And so far, so good.
20:03You know, like I'm not looking to make like a quick buck.
20:06These are long term.
20:07And that's another thing that we're trying to educate people
20:09about cryptocurrencies with Bitcoin.
20:12People are buying it at 97,000 USD when perhaps it was last year, 50,000.
20:20Like, you know, it's gone up a lot.
20:21It's very expensive.
20:22But the projections are perhaps by the end of this year,
20:26and this isn't financial advice, people talking about 150,000
20:30and potentially $1 million per coin, i.e. this is a very long term play
20:35because the interesting thing about Bitcoin is it has a finite supply,
20:39you know, 21 million and they will run out.
20:42So after that, there won't be any more.
20:45And how many are there now?
20:46In circulation, there's around 18, 19 million have been mined.
20:51So there's only around 2 million left to be mined.
20:53And then that's it.
20:55So in the days after, I guess it was in the days after the inauguration
20:59of Donald Trump, we could see traditional media covering the story
21:05and how Bitcoin was going up.
21:07How much of the success of specifically Bitcoin right now is because
21:13not just Donald Trump's approach and his comments,
21:16but also because of what he has said about some of the people
21:19he wants to move into key roles in the U.S. government
21:23who are very friendly towards cryptocurrencies.
21:27Yeah, very friendly.
21:29People who've worked in crypto and for crypto exchanges,
21:32you know, look at Elon Musk, you know, even though he's, you know,
21:35the founder of Tesla and technology, he's also got links to cryptocurrency
21:39with Doge.
21:40And then to set up a whole department, play on words,
21:45Doge in the Department of Government Efficiency is very,
21:47what they call in this industry, bullish, you know.
21:50He is very crypto friendly.
21:52And yeah, he's not just saying, I want to do this.
21:54He's bringing in people who will also want to do that as well,
21:58like a whole task force, a crypto task force.
22:01So yeah, definitely people are seeing, you know,
22:04this guy is putting his kind of digital money where his mouth is,
22:07bringing in the right people to follow through on his aspirations.
22:11And do you think that while the UAE is wanting to be obviously a big player,
22:17do you think that some of the other GCC states, specifically Saudi,
22:21will start to maybe lean into that as well?
22:24I think so.
22:25I mean, you kind of like Donald Trump talks a lot.
22:28We know that.
22:29And you know, there's a lot of rhetoric there and he makes things seem so simple.
22:32You know, we're going to solve this just by doing this.
22:34We're going to get this person to talk to that person.
22:36We just solved a huge conflict, you know, just like that.
22:39It's amazing, you know, and with crypto,
22:41I think people want to see because one of the things he's talked about,
22:44which sounds very boring, is this Bitcoin strategic reserve, you know,
22:47building up a stockpile of Bitcoin as like you would do with gold and oil
22:52and other assets.
22:53But we're not sure if that will get done, if he's allowed to do it,
22:57you know, with approval.
22:59And so other people want to say, well, you know, you've talked a lot
23:02and you've got sort of these grand visions for crypto and Bitcoin.
23:05We want to see if you can get it off the ground before maybe we want to try.
23:09So I think, yes, in the GCC,
23:10we will see more people keeping close eye on specifically
23:14that crypto play from Donald Trump.
23:16And that sort of, you know, he might make the mistakes
23:19and people can learn from it.
23:20And being the first mover maybe isn't, you know,
23:23doesn't give you too much of an advantage in the crypto space
23:26because it's evolving all the time.
23:27Because even like Bitcoin, people are storing Bitcoin
23:30and people might say, well, Bitcoin's old, you know,
23:32the technology is outdated.
23:34Some people say there's faster, quicker blockchains.
23:37And so that's the thing.
23:38It's a very dynamic space to be in.
23:40And governments think long-term.
23:42Sovereign wealth funds generally think long-term.
23:45So that's where the symbolic thing comes in.
23:47It's like, this isn't just a fad.
23:49You know, this is something that is here to stay.
23:52And when you encounter people who say, no, it's not here to stay.
23:56I need something tangible in my hands.
23:58I need to be able to see something that is right there in front of me.
24:03Why would those people feel any more comfortable
24:07if they are trying to trade with other people that they might not see?
24:13Like, how is it that you can set their mind at ease
24:15to make them feel that it is safe?
24:18Because as we talked a little bit about earlier,
24:21there have been a fair bit, a fair number of scams.
24:24And yet with blockchain,
24:25it seems like it's almost something that scams shouldn't be possible.
24:30So again, why is it that people should be putting more comfort
24:36in the fact that this is here to stay and it is trustworthy?
24:40I think it comes down to education.
24:42People understanding how the technology works,
24:45understanding what wallets are,
24:47and these things, hot wallets and cold wallets.
24:49Cold wallets completely offline in a hard drive,
24:53and hot wallets linked to online.
24:57Giving your money to an exchange as well, a central exchange,
25:02and they look after it for you.
25:03They take custody for it.
25:04So you sort of understand what your level of risk is.
25:07So I think education is the key thing.
25:09And as more and more people get into cryptocurrencies,
25:12they will hopefully go onto YouTube, listen to the crypto radio,
25:15do their, it's called Dior, D-Y-O-R, do your own research and understand.
25:20Rather than just go rushing in thinking,
25:22oh, I've got to get into this quickly.
25:25Well, no, actually, as I was saying with Bitcoin,
25:27it could continue to keep on rising, rising, rising.
25:30So you don't need to rush into any of these things.
25:32So that's really what we're saying here is people now
25:36are maybe thinking actually this is going to be around.
25:39I don't have to rush into this.
25:40FOMO is one thing, but also there's a lot of risk of FOMO as well,
25:47that you don't do your research and you buy or you get scammed.
25:50So I think it's really that education.
25:52People like calming down, putting the brakes on a bit,
25:54and then thinking, right, I've got opportunities now
25:57and I will continue to have opportunities.
26:00So you talk about the traders, best guesses,
26:03how many traders would there be in the UAE?
26:07Oh, that's a good question.
26:09I don't know and I don't want to guess really.
26:15So I'll tell you what, in the research that I've done,
26:18I saw the number 500,000.
26:21Right, okay.
26:22Does that sound believable?
26:23It does, but we hear all sorts of figures,
26:25even like the number of coins and tokens.
26:28No one can quite quantify how many coins are in operation,
26:31how many tokens there are out there.
26:33The figures vary.
26:35500,000, definitely.
26:37I mean, we could talk about crypto adoption rates
26:40and that's the interesting thing as in somewhere like India
26:43has a really high adoption rate of crypto,
26:45people using crypto, the US, the Philippines.
26:49There are certain countries that have high adoption rates
26:52and it's based on wallets and wallet addresses,
26:55but you could have 20 wallets and many people do.
26:59They have all their different cryptocurrencies
27:01in different wallets.
27:02So it could be just very wealthy people
27:04with hundreds of wallets.
27:05So it doesn't necessarily mean lots of people are into crypto.
27:09It could just mean a lot of wealthy people have lots of wallets.
27:12So that 500,000 could well be true.
27:15It's growing all the time.
27:19Now we're talking about cryptocurrencies,
27:21but we mentioned Bitcoin an awful lot.
27:23Why is it that Bitcoin is, what, $98,000 at the moment?
27:28And Solana, which I think is number two,
27:31would be about $2,800.
27:33Why has Bitcoin in particular become almost synonymous
27:39with cryptocurrency?
27:41They're almost interchangeable.
27:42It's like tissue and Kleenex, right?
27:44Why is that the case?
27:46There's two interesting points there.
27:47Number one is it's finite.
27:49So there will only be a certain number of Bitcoin.
27:51It came along first and it's more widely accepted
27:54as a form of payment.
27:56So I think it's really that's how people got into it.
27:58And you have these Bitcoin maxis,
28:00people who got in it from a very early stage
28:02and they promote it very heavily.
28:05They're Bitcoin maxis.
28:07They only invest in Bitcoin.
28:09So I think it's the fact that it came along first
28:11and now we're seeing governments
28:13and sovereign wealth funds buying it.
28:15So it's clearly ticking the right boxes.
28:18But the interesting thing is the Bitcoin maxis
28:20who only own Bitcoin,
28:22they don't like it to be called cryptocurrency.
28:25They say this is Bitcoin and everything else
28:28is cryptocurrencies.
28:30So you have two different pools.
28:32You have Bitcoin and then you have altcoins,
28:35alternative coins.
28:36Anything else that is not Bitcoin is called an altcoin.
28:41Even if it's a big player like Solana,
28:43like Ethereum, like XRP.
28:46So that's the interesting thing within the industry.
28:48You've got the snobbish Bitcoin maxis
28:51and then the crypto players.
28:53So yes, you're absolutely right.
28:55It's interchangeable, Bitcoin and crypto.
28:57People think Bitcoin is crypto
28:58when there's hundreds, thousands out there.
29:00But the Bitcoin lovers, they're like,
29:02oh, don't call us crypto.
29:04We're Bitcoin.
29:06So there are so many coins out there.
29:09And one of the accusations that gets leveled
29:11at cryptocurrency is the environmental impact
29:15of all the mining that's required.
29:18Walk me through why you think that
29:21that's not something that is necessarily
29:23something to be feared.
29:25I think because the industry are tech savvy
29:30and looking at alternative energy
29:32and trying to repair the damage from the scams
29:35and making it more trustworthy
29:37and looking at the environmental impact
29:39because a few years ago people would say
29:41Bitcoin mining would be equivalent
29:44of a small country's energy consumption,
29:47which probably was the case.
29:48And so I think they quickly had to address that issue.
29:51And so I think they're looking very much,
29:53because the technology plays.
29:55It's on the blockchain.
29:56So they're looking at how technology
29:58and how new forms of energy can be used.
30:00And we mentioned El Salvador.
30:02El Salvador powers some of their Bitcoin mining
30:05from a volcano.
30:07And other countries are looking at renewable energy
30:10and natural sources to power their Bitcoin mining.
30:14And so I think it's definitely something
30:16that the industry are aware of and are actively working on.
30:19And then we hear these stories.
30:21I think the heat from the Bitcoin mining machine
30:24can be reused and repurposed.
30:26And I think one, I can't remember the country
30:28in Southeast Asia, was using that heat to dry mangoes.
30:32So they're coming up with inventive
30:33and innovative ways of using that energy
30:36of creating the energy in the first place.
30:38So it's being addressed.
30:41I still think it uses a lot of energy,
30:43but it's something that we'd hope will go down.
30:47So crypto radio is about education.
30:49And we've talked a little bit about scams, the environment.
30:51What are, are there other dark sides to cryptocurrency
30:56that maybe we haven't touched upon?
30:59I mean, that's the thing.
31:00When it first came around, there was Silk Road
31:02and there was being used for drugs
31:05and illegal products like that.
31:07And that's how it sort of first got its reputation for Bitcoin.
31:10So yes, that's where its roots lie in the dark web.
31:14And as we've said over the years,
31:16it's got a cleaner and cleaner image,
31:18but people still remember it.
31:19It's like first impressions last.
31:21So I think that will take a while for people
31:24to change people's perception of it,
31:27especially when there still are scams going on now.
31:30But it's, it's like we said, no, it's new technology.
31:33People are still learning the ropes
31:35and AI will also play a part now
31:37because you have these things, AI agents,
31:40agents that are autonomous that can create tokens
31:43and market tokens and sell tokens as well.
31:46And they've got to be, you've got to be really careful
31:48with AI taking over crypto.
31:50So there's always, there's like always a challenge
31:52on the horizon for crypto.
31:54It's like, it's a tough, it's a tough one
31:56and we're not at mass adoption.
31:57And it's, it's, you know, it's almost like you need
31:59a real big PR, you know, play on, on crypto to try
32:03and help educate people and show, you know, look,
32:06please, you know, give it a second chance.
32:08Well, that brings up a really interesting question.
32:10If, if you were to hire a PR agency for crypto globally,
32:17what, what is it that you would hope that they could do
32:20to convince your average person,
32:23maybe to participate in trading,
32:25but at the very least to be a little bit more aware of it?
32:29By using human stories.
32:32And, you know, as from yourself, human interest,
32:35people make the best stories.
32:37And so, you know, like Nigeria has a very high adoption rate
32:41of cryptocurrencies because they have a very volatile currency
32:44and crypto like stable coins are stable
32:47and it's a much safer way of sending money.
32:50And also when you think about some of the international
32:52transfers companies and the fees that they charge
32:55for you to send and the other person to receive it,
32:58like almost double charging.
32:59And you say, if you'd use a cryptocurrency,
33:01you would have reduced your fees by a huge, huge amount.
33:04And you can do it within minutes.
33:06I think human interest stories I'd tell to the PR agency,
33:09go and find people who are using it in the real world.
33:12Not just people sitting with four screens at their desk,
33:14making millions, trading, buying and selling Bitcoin
33:17and other meme coins, real world examples
33:20of how this technology, how this digital money
33:23is helping everyday people.
33:25And that I think the best stories to get the message across.
33:28All right.
33:29Picking up from everyday people, one piece of advice
33:33that you would give to somebody today
33:35who's thinking about getting into cryptocurrencies.
33:40Don't go rushing in.
33:42Don't go for the FOMO and the meme coins.
33:47You're only going to lose.
33:50They are very risky, very risky.
33:52Crypto's risky.
33:53It is.
33:54It has reputations for volatility.
33:56Meme coins are the real sort of big story of the day.
34:00There's a craze around those.
34:01And what we're worried about is so many,
34:03that will be people's first exposure to crypto
34:06and their last.
34:07When they suddenly buy this coin
34:09and it's what they call pump and dump.
34:10It quickly goes up in price and then it falls back down
34:12and you lose all your money.
34:13And so you need to step back and say, that is not for me.
34:16Maybe a little bit of Bitcoin.
34:18This whole skin in the game, just buy a little bit.
34:21Understand even basic questions.
34:23How do I buy it?
34:25Do I have to buy a whole coin?
34:26No, you don't have to buy a whole coin.
34:28How do I store it?
34:29And so when you actually, even if it's like $50,
34:32200 dirhams say, it's actually, that's the part of the education
34:36is doing it for yourself and just keeping it and learning.
34:39And what we find is when people do that,
34:41I wouldn't say they get addicted, but they also,
34:43they start thinking, oh, maybe I'll buy a little bit more
34:45and this whole regular saving thing.
34:47So I think it's really just baby steps.
34:49So, and with that baby step approach in mind,
34:54would it be the same approach with cryptocurrencies
34:57that I would use maybe with the traditional stock market
35:00where there may be a lot of data, but I'm still going to go on instinct?
35:05Or is it better to maybe follow the trend
35:09of what's popular at the moment?
35:11Yeah, that's a good question.
35:12So there's, you know, this analysis paralysis
35:15where there's too many charts, too many moving averages
35:18and too many indexes that you follow there.
35:21See, that was my background.
35:22I was a business journalist and I used to write about stocks and shares.
35:26And so when I came to crypto, it was trying to see
35:28how much of that knowledge could I transfer over to crypto.
35:31And crypto is almost like on fast forward,
35:35it's like stocks and shares on fast forward.
35:37You never see a stock fluctuate the way that you see some cryptocurrencies.
35:41So I think it's really, yes, you've got to do your research,
35:44but now we know in this day and age it's information overload.
35:47So you'll end up doing nothing.
35:49So Bitcoin is probably the safest cryptocurrency
35:53if you are a first timer and a novice
35:56and the more stable of the cryptocurrencies.
35:59So I think it's really, yes, you can look at charts.
36:01Yes, you can look at projections, but if you buy a little bit there
36:04and then maybe follow it and see how it does.
36:08And then you can set up virtual portfolios.
36:10You don't actually have to have too much skin in the game.
36:13You've got virtual skin in the game.
36:14It's like virtual shopping on Amazon.
36:16Yes, it is, but that soon turns into real shopping.
36:19Yes, it does.
36:21And so, yes, it's really just trying it out,
36:23seeing is it something for you.
36:25Are you prepared for the fact that you might wake up the next morning?
36:27And it may well have fallen 10%, but it might make it up.
36:31But it's volatile and this whole thing about never betting more
36:35than you can afford to lose.
36:36That's very true with cryptocurrencies.
36:38And be prepared for the volatility and the rollercoaster ride
36:42and don't panic because a lot of people panic.
36:44Even when Bitcoin, it hit during Donald Trump's inauguration,
36:47hit an all-time high and people thought, great, it's on its way up.
36:51And then it fell shortly afterwards and people were selling it
36:54and we would talk to experts.
36:56And they're like, isn't that the worst thing?
36:58They bought it at an all-time high.
37:00It went down in price and then they're selling it quickly.
37:02They're like, how do you stop that mentality,
37:06buying at the top and selling when it's falling?
37:08Just hold onto it, calm down, don't panic.
37:11Justin Harper, thank you very much for trying to educate us
37:13about cryptocurrencies. I appreciate it.
37:15It's a pleasure. Thank you.