01:00The Iranian regime is commonly considered to be very unpopular within Iran.
01:19I wonder if you could talk about whether the U.S. should adopt a policy of regime change
01:29in Iran by the Iranian people?
01:31And if so, what should we be doing to support the Iranian opposition more to make that happen?
01:39So from my perspective, first, the internal dynamics in Iran are complicated, and we're
01:48in many ways not necessarily the best source of a clear view on that, precisely because
01:54we, of course, don't have diplomatic relations.
01:57We've been disengaged, and I think there'd be a certain amount of pretense in saying
02:02that we know exactly what the dynamics are inside Iran.
02:05Of course, we get as much information as we can.
02:08We have friends and partners who do have a clearer and better understanding.
02:13We put all of that together.
02:15As I see it, I think the country's very divided.
02:17I think what you've described certainly is reflective of at least half the population,
02:21but not the entirety of it.
02:24And there are profound differences, as you know, between urban and rural.
02:28There's a very conservative element in Iran that's significant in number that probably
02:33remains beholden to the regime.
02:35So I don't think it's quite as clear-cut as that, but there's no doubt that a large percentage
02:41of people want a different future for their country.
02:45There's no doubt that that different future would be better for everyone.
02:49So the question is, what, if anything, can we do to advance that?
02:54I think if we look at the last 20 years, our experiments in regime change have not
02:58exactly been resounding successes.
03:01So I think we have to be... have an appropriate degree of humility in focusing in that way
03:11on a problem, but focusing on everything we need to do to effectuate policy change, to
03:20stop the country from doing things that are threats to our interests, as well as threats
03:25to our values.
03:26That, yes, has to be front and center.
03:29And we have clear security threats emanating from Iran, and we have clear values threats
03:33emanating from Iran.
03:35What we've tried to do at different points in time is, to the best of our ability, further
03:40empower people inside Iran who want a different future for the country, to be able to communicate,
03:45to be able to stand up, to be able to have some resources to do that.
03:49But I'll be the first to acknowledge it's really hard to do from the outside.
03:54I think what's most likely to succeed, ultimately, is even more of the Iranian people deciding
04:01that the direction, the governance of their country is not delivering for them the, the
04:09results that they want, the future that they want.
04:12And at some point, that will, I think, reorient the course of the country.
04:20I just, from my perspective, at least, and from my own experience, I think that's, that's,
04:24that's hard to engineer from the outside, and you inevitably end up with unintended
04:29consequences, second- and third-order effects that you got to be very careful about.
04:33So I think we have to keep standing up for what we believe in.
04:36We have to keep standing strongly against manifestations of Iranian behavior that run
04:42counter to our interests or the interests of our allies and partners.
04:44We have to stand strongly with those in Iran who want a different future.
04:49But I am very, I'd be very wary about trying to engineer anything from the, from the outside.
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