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8 Billion Angels is a controversial and timely new film that asks us, "Are there too many of us for planet Earth?"
About The Population Factor:
A series of key conversations examining the connection between our planet’s growing population & related issues. Expect to be educated on a range of topics including climate change, wildlife preservation, immigration policy & consumption patterns.
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At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.
EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
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8 Billion Angels is a controversial and timely new film that asks us, "Are there too many of us for planet Earth?"
About The Population Factor:
A series of key conversations examining the connection between our planet’s growing population & related issues. Expect to be educated on a range of topics including climate change, wildlife preservation, immigration policy & consumption patterns.
EarthX
Love Our Planet.
The Official Network of Earth Day.
About Us:
At EarthX, we believe our planet is a pretty special place. The people, landscapes, and critters are likely unique to the entire universe, so we consider ourselves lucky to be here. We are committed to protecting the environment by inspiring conservation and sustainability, and our programming along with our range of expert hosts support this mission. We’re glad you’re with us.
EarthX is a media company dedicated to inspiring people to care about the planet. We take an omni channel approach to reach audiences of every age through its robust 24/7 linear channel distributed across cable and FAST outlets, along with dynamic, solution oriented short form content on social and digital platforms. EarthX is home to original series, documentaries and snackable content that offer sustainable solutions to environmental challenges. EarthX is the only network that delivers entertaining and inspiring topics that impact and inspire our lives on climate and sustainability.
EarthX Website: https://earthxmedia.com/
Follow Us:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/earthxmedia/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/earthxmedia
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EarthXMedia/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@earthxmedia
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EarthXMedia
How to watch:
United States:
- Spectrum
- AT&T U-verse (1267)
- DIRECTV (267)
- Philo
- FuboTV
- Plex
- Fire TV
#EarthDay #Environment #Sustainability #Ecofriendly #Conservation #EarthX
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TVTranscript
00:00Eight Billion Angels is a rare, full-length environmental film that focuses on population
00:06issues.
00:07Join producer Terry Spahr for a discussion of the making of this fascinating film today
00:13on The Population Factor.
00:33Eight Billion Angels is a rare, full-length environmental film that digs deeply into population
00:52issues.
00:53It asks the question, are there too many people on planet Earth?
00:57Today on The Population Factor, I'm joined by producer Terry Spahr.
01:02Terry, welcome to The Population Factor.
01:04Thanks for having me, Phil.
01:07Great to have you.
01:08So tell me, how did you decide to make a film that focuses so much on population issues?
01:15You know, Phil, as a child, I used to spend my summers up in Acadia National Park in the
01:22state of Maine, and I was exposed to nature through my family, and I remember a pair of
01:29bald eagles, and this was back in the early 70s, and there were maybe 200 nesting pairs
01:33across the country, and the following summer, when I was maybe seven years old, they were
01:38gone.
01:39And my father explained to me what was happening with the bald eagles and DDT and, you know,
01:44the consequences to the natural world from, you know, human interactions, and it just
01:49sort of put a light on things for me.
01:53And over time, and I'm 55 years old now, I've seen, you know, dramatic recovery to the eagles,
01:58which is a real, you know, a wonderful story.
02:02But in that same period of time, I've seen, you know, significant changes in every biosphere
02:08and every, you know, part of the natural world.
02:10You know, the same place we go up there, there are hardly any more fish anymore.
02:14We used to catch them all the time, abundantly, and now it's, you know, one out of every hundred
02:17casts, you might catch a mackerel, and, you know, there's so much more plastic and trash
02:22on the beaches, and frankly, the tides are higher.
02:26And so it's alarming to see these changes, and in the last 10, 15 years, I started really
02:32diving into it and understanding the upstream causes for that, and that's where I came to
02:37the conclusion that this needed to be told the story.
02:41So you decided to make an environmental film.
02:44There's lots of environmental concern, lots of people talking about it in different ways,
02:49but I don't typically see the kind of deep dive into population issues that I see in
02:548 Billion Angels.
02:56What made you decide to make that a focus of this film?
03:00You know, I'm a sort of a big systems thinker or observer, Phil, and I saw all these symptoms
03:09that were out there, what I said, you know, mentioning the fisheries and, you know, the
03:13pollution and the tides changing, and, you know, when you look at all these various symptoms,
03:19they, I always say to myself, keep asking why do they exist, and the fundamental reason
03:24is because there are just too many people consuming too many resources, emitting too
03:28many waste.
03:29We have a human impact crisis, and when I really got into the understanding this, you
03:36know, that's, you know, the reason that I felt we had to tell this story, because people
03:40are afraid to talk about this issue.
03:42So we're talking about the film 8 Billion Angels.
03:45Let's see a short clip from the film.
03:49Knowing that we are facing the biggest extinction right now since an asteroid hit our planet
03:57is so personally painful to me.
04:02I think that just comes from how much I love this planet, and I can't believe that we are
04:11knowingly and voluntarily killing off so many species.
04:19My students say, we want to save the planet.
04:21The planet's fine.
04:22The planet doesn't need saving.
04:24We need saving.
04:27The earth tells us that it's in trouble in a bunch of different ways.
04:30It tells us we're in trouble by its effects on us.
04:32So you get things like changing disease vectors that are really surprising and harmful.
04:37You get food insecurity, you get mass starvation.
04:41Basically, you see that the sorts of things that humanity isn't able to recover from are
04:48happening more and more.
04:51So Terry, I'm curious.
04:53As you interviewed people, as you started to tell your story, was there any resistance
04:59to talking about population?
05:02That's a great question.
05:03You know, I really didn't see any resistance from anyone.
05:07We, you know, part of the production phase is to call people up, explain what you're
05:12trying to do with the film.
05:14And almost invariably, everyone said that they were interested in participating.
05:20And that's all walks of life from, you know, scientists down to the everyday person who's
05:24out on the street.
05:26And they knew that you were going to be discussing population in detail, and they were fine with
05:31that?
05:32Absolutely.
05:33Yes.
05:34Wow.
05:35Maybe things are changing.
05:36I mean, that's good to hear.
05:37You mentioned earlier some of our environmental issues.
05:43When I talk about those and relate them to population, people will often say to me, well,
05:47really the issue is consumption, not so much population.
05:51We need to cut back on our consumption.
05:53What's your take on that?
05:57Population is not the only thing to, you know, the film or to the organization, the nonprofit
06:01we have, Phil.
06:02But, you know, it's a crucial component, you know, in the impact that, you know, we as
06:06humans are having on environmental degradation, on public health, on species extinction and
06:11climate change.
06:13So we can't ignore our numbers and just focus on consumption.
06:16Consumption is an important factor.
06:18But the challenge there is it's extremely, extremely difficult to reduce our consumption.
06:24And, you know, there are two major impediments or obstacles to doing that, Phil.
06:29And, you know, one is that, you know, we've got a system in place, a financial system
06:34that where if we reduce our consumption in one area, it's not isolated.
06:39We've got other consequences to reducing our consumption, meaning that, for example,
06:44I stopped driving a car, Phil, I now have a economic benefit or a savings of about six
06:49thousand dollars a year as an American, because I no longer have the cost of the car, the
06:53production of it, the use of the gas and oil and maintenance and all that stuff.
06:56So it's a huge savings.
06:58But what happens with those savings?
06:59Sure.
07:00You know, they get shifted to other types of consumptive behavior, typically.
07:04So it's very difficult to get out of this economic system.
07:06You literally have to either destroy those savings or repurpose them towards essentially
07:11buying land to conserve that land and preserve it, because then you're getting that money
07:15out of the system.
07:16And that's the challenge with reducing consumption is it's it's part of a larger system financially.
07:20And the other big challenge is people like to live the lives they're living.
07:24It's very difficult to get people to actually reduce their standard of living, which is
07:28what you're asking them to do.
07:30And you've got three and a half billion people who are living unsustainably right now all
07:34across the world in different cultures and different, you know, political beliefs and
07:40different religious beliefs.
07:41And, you know, how do we get them to, you know, reduce their material standards of living
07:45anywhere from 50 to 90 percent?
07:47It's a pretty difficult task.
07:49And the other challenge is you got four million plus four billion plus people who are living
07:53below that sustainable threshold of living, which is very minimal.
07:57And they're trying every day to live better lives.
07:59And as you saw in the film, you know, as the bioethicist said, they should have every right
08:02to do that.
08:03They should have the freedom, the room and the space to grow, to live better lives.
08:07So you're laying out just a hugely difficult problem here.
08:11And I guess what you're saying is part of the answer to solving that problem, maybe
08:15a big part, is simply having fewer people making demands.
08:20If we could get to a place, well, we're closing in on eight billion people.
08:24If somehow we could ratchet that back over a few generations to perhaps four billion,
08:30all of a sudden that opens up more space to try to create sustainable societies.
08:37But you suggested that it, and I agree, it's hard to get people to cut back on consumption.
08:42Is it going to be any easier to reduce populations?
08:47You know, that's addressed in the film as well, Phil, you know, you have the bioethicist
08:51and also a gentleman by the name of, sorry, I'm blanking right now, but from Population
08:58Media Center.
08:59Bill Ryerson?
09:00Sorry, Bill Ryerson.
09:02And Bill, you know, Bill Ryerson, you know, asked that question and he said, you know,
09:08I think it's a lot easier for people to, you know, manage family size and reduce their
09:14numbers as opposed to trying to reduce their consumption.
09:17And I would agree with them.
09:19I think as the bioethicist said in the film, you see people do that in times of economic
09:24strife.
09:25We saw that during COVID.
09:27People were very concerned financially for their jobs, their welfare, and their health.
09:31And we've seen, you know, dramatic decreases in fertility just this past year.
09:35And so, you know, people do make those choices, especially when they're given the right to
09:39make those choices.
09:40They're given the contraception and they're given the education, you know, they'll tend
09:45to want fewer children in space the more.
09:47It's a good point.
09:48And I would just add that people don't just choose to have fewer children in bad times.
09:53If you look around the world, almost all countries have much lower fertility rates
09:59today than they did 50 years ago.
10:01So if you provide people the wherewithal to have smaller families, many of them do choose
10:06to do that.
10:07Whereas, again, if most countries around the world, if not all countries, people are consuming
10:13per capita at a higher level than they did 50 years ago.
10:16So pretty clearly, at some level, people want fewer kids and they want to consume more.
10:22I don't know whether that says something good about people or not.
10:25You say there are 8 billion angels.
10:27Are we really angels?
10:28I mean, what do you think?
10:30I've heard a lot of people say you should call it 8 billion devils.
10:33But I think that by and large, we're all, you know, compassionate, decent, loving people.
10:40But unfortunately, our collective numbers, no matter how benign and how, you know, gentle
10:45we are to the natural world, the consequences have been catastrophic.
10:51Let's take a look at another clip from the film 8 Billion Angels.
10:56The world's political leadership has been terrified to address the population issue
11:01for several reasons.
11:03One is many economists have convinced politicians that more people are necessary to keep economic
11:10growth going.
11:12More consumers, more workers, more taxes, and the whole economic system of the planet
11:19is basically based on growth.
11:22So just think about that for a minute.
11:23We have a finite set of resources in a closed system, and the only way our economy survives
11:28is if we grow forever.
11:30Something's wrong with our math and logic here, right?
11:32The next generation is going to face challenges and rates of change that have never been experienced
11:40in human history.
11:42The evidence that we are outusing the carrying capacity of the planet's natural systems is
11:51stronger than the evidence supporting the theory of gravity.
11:56That's Bill Ryerson talking a little bit about some of the political impediments and some
12:01of the political opportunities to address population issues.
12:05Terry, as you worked through this film, as you made this film, what are the kinds of
12:11solutions that you found people talking about to overpopulation?
12:18As you know, Phil, there are numerous minefields around this subject that goes to things like
12:24reproductive autonomy and religious beliefs and cultural practices.
12:31What we've found is that when you enable and empower women to make their own decisions,
12:37to gain reproductive autonomy, to get an education, they'll better themselves, they'll
12:44better their families, and it's a path to sustainability because they tend to have fewer
12:51children and space them more and give attention to those, and they tend to live healthier
12:55and better lives.
12:56It's better for people.
12:57It's better for the planet.
12:58It's a challenge because there's this mistaken belief, and it's an easy one to fall into
13:05as far as a narrative, that people think and politicians think that we must have continued
13:10growth in order to see prosperity.
13:14It's just not true.
13:16There's no correlation there.
13:17The two are separate and distinct.
13:19There are a number of countries, Phil, and they're not many that have had declining populations,
13:23but the ones that have over the past number of years or decades, ones like Lithuania and
13:29Georgia and Croatia and Bulgaria and Japan, these are all countries that are seeing population
13:35decline, but in addition, their economies have been solid.
13:40Their employment's good.
13:41Their standard of livings are good.
13:43They haven't suffered any significant impacts from a decline in population, but you don't
13:50hear those stories, and that's a shame because we need to grow smaller gracefully, and it
13:55can be done without significant economic impact.
13:59The problem is if we don't address it, there's going to be greater impacts to us from the
14:03ecological side and from what I would say is the national security side as far as protecting
14:07our interests and our security.
14:09You make a good point that there are growing numbers of countries which actually do have
14:16declining populations and yet which seem to be doing pretty well economically, and obviously
14:22there have been a thousand and one stories in recent years about the terrible state of
14:26Japan and how it's declining, but actually if you go over to Japan, if you talk to experts
14:32in the Japanese economy and sociology, people seem to be doing pretty well there, and to
14:40me that's a hopeful sign.
14:42Another country, the largest economy in Europe is Germany by far.
14:48Their population isn't declining, but it's been pretty stable for the past couple decades,
14:53and that too is somewhat of a hopeful story, which I guess one of the things you were trying
14:59to do in this film is to give people hope, but not in a sort of a candy-ass way.
15:06You know, I mean not, oh, gee, things are going to be wonderful, we've got a lot of
15:10challenges ahead, but population is one factor which it seems as if we can address and make
15:16some headway and find some real win-win solutions.
15:20I agree completely.
15:22Terry, in that last clip, we heard several speakers talking about some of the environmental
15:28costs of overpopulation, including food insecurity and dangerous disease vectors.
15:35Are there other environmental problems that you can connect to population growth or overpopulation?
15:43You know, not only just environmental problems, I'd say there are also, you know, human health
15:47problems, Phil.
15:48I mean, think about when you have a high density of people in a lot of these larger cities,
15:53you see higher housing costs, which makes it very difficult for people to live, and
15:59they have to make choices.
16:00So they may choose to live closer to a denser area, but because more of their income is
16:05going towards housing costs, less can go to, you know, better health care and better nutrition.
16:11So there are choices that have to be made because of the implications of unsustainable
16:14population growth that are oftentimes negative choices.
16:17We see it with overcrowded schools, you know, traffic jams, you know, the pollution that
16:23we see in the air and across our waterways, you know, beach closures, you know, along
16:28the Jersey Shore from around here because of pollution runoff or the loss of green space
16:32to new housing of continued development.
16:35And you know, that can also impact our mental health because people need to have that, you
16:41know, green space and that nature to kind of de-stress ourselves.
16:45It shows that there's greater stress in higher density areas of people and populations or
16:49of any species.
16:50You know, you see it in, you know, declining water volume and the choices we have to make
16:55as far as, you know, the implications on water use.
16:58I mean, there's fights now that are breaking out on who gets water and where, and it's
17:02basically being, you know, caused by us and our demand for it.
17:06You see it, you know, just in the fires, you know, that there actually were more fires
17:11filled by quantity and number, and also by the size of the fires back in the thirties
17:16and forties than there are today.
17:18Like five times as great, but no one talks about that.
17:20And the reason it wasn't talked about is because we had one seventh the population.
17:24So you had far fewer homes that were in areas exposed to potential fires.
17:29So it just, it wasn't that big a news item back then because there wasn't a huge loss
17:33of property and loss of even human life to these fires because they weren't near them.
17:40So yeah, I think it's insidious in many ways because it's always in the news over population,
17:46but it's never named.
17:47You know, it lurks in the shadows and goes by those things I just mentioned, all those
17:51things.
17:52And, but they all have that fundamental common, you know, upstream cause, which is too many
17:56of us.
17:58So given that, I mean, are you optimistic that if we started talking about the population
18:04connection to these issues, that that could start to lead to a different sort of politics?
18:10Because as you were saying earlier, our whole economy and how we think about what we need
18:16is built around the idea of growth and more.
18:20And what I'm hearing from you is there's a conflict there between actual quality of life
18:24and pursuing more.
18:26So do you see, do you see a path forward to a politics which can deal more effectively
18:32with that?
18:33Certainly, as more and more people can connect.
18:36And that was the purpose of the film, Phil, is to help people emotionally connect to this
18:41issue and then cognitively too, to understand the connections of, you know, a human's impact
18:47on the environment and the more of us, the more impact.
18:49It's exponential.
18:50And so, you know, the goal is that, yes, I'd love to see, you know, small families become
18:56the symbol of parents who really care about, you know, the climate and about the environment
19:01and about the well-being of future generations.
19:03You know, the social norms can be changed quite rapidly, you know, when they're intentional
19:09groups executing strategic campaigns.
19:11So unquestionably that, you know, that norm and that pendulum can shift dramatically.
19:17And we are seeing, you know, fertility, total fertility across the globe, you know, decline,
19:22but it needs to decline even faster.
19:25So you've shown this film in various venues.
19:29It must be gratifying to you when you see students or listeners of various kinds start
19:36to make those connections.
19:39It is.
19:40And it's interesting how many organizations are open to the film and its message, everything
19:45from, as you said, schools and universities to middle schools, to, you know, corporations,
19:51to various community groups and religious groups.
19:54So it's been, you know, I think warmly received.
20:00And if you look at our website, you can see all the different venues and all the different
20:04organizations that have streamed the film to date in community groups.
20:08I think it's an excellent film.
20:09I mean, for me, what I really like about it is it's visually very appealing.
20:15There are lots of beautiful pictures and interesting visual aspects to it, but it's also got some,
20:22it gets you thinking about these issues as well.
20:25And I think it's tough to mix those things together.
20:28So I really applaud your ability to do both of those things.
20:33Yeah, it was just a very difficult task to take this very complex problem and distill
20:40it down to its essence where it's also, you know, intellectually captivating, but emotionally,
20:46and not an easy task for what some people might consider a very dry subject, but I think
20:52we did a pretty good job at it.
20:54I agree.
20:55So it took you a while to make this film.
20:59Did your views about environmentalism change at all over the course of making the film?
21:04Well, yes and no.
21:05I'd say it certainly reaffirmed what I'm doing.
21:09It certainly gave me greater conviction.
21:12And as a result from this film, what was born out of it was a nonprofit called Earth Overshoot
21:18Phil, and that nonprofit is there to further the mission and the message that's in that
21:23film.
21:24So, you know, from that perspective, yes, it gave me even greater conviction of what
21:28we're doing is just and it's moral and it's right.
21:32But you know, also, I learned of the human impact, I really, I came at this from the
21:37natural world and how, you know, we're seeing, you know, substantial degradation of nature.
21:42But I then started to really understand and realize the societal and health impacts that,
21:48you know, it's bestowing on us.
21:50Terry, the film is Eight Billion Angels.
21:54It's an excellent film.
21:55Where can our viewers go to see it?
21:57A couple places, Phil.
21:59We've been in theaters, but that's winding down.
22:02And we are on now, we're on Google Play, iTunes or Apple TV and Amazon.
22:10So it's transactional on demand there.
22:12You can go to go to our website to link to there.
22:15And we also have it on our website.
22:16You can watch it as an individual.
22:18And again, if you're interested from a community group perspective, you can just contact us
22:22through the website at 8billionangels.org.
22:25Really it's an excellent film.
22:27I encourage viewers to to watch it.
22:30Terry, thank you so much for making the film.
22:34And thank you for being with us today on The Population Factor.
22:37Thank you, Phil.
22:38It's been fantastic.